Range trip 6-25 :(

[wisconsinteacher]

Well it was officially the worst range trip ever. Let’s start with the brightest spot of the day.

22-250 @182 yards. I shot 2 3 shot groups with 55 Vmaxs and IMR 4064.

35.9 grs= 3510/3499/3570fps=1.795” group
36.3 grs= 3537/3537/3559fps=1.747” group


30-06 Last time out I had 3 light primer strikes so I took the bolt apart and cleaned it. Today the first 2 shots allowed me zero @ 100 yards. I had one more round to fire into milk jugs and it did not fire. I did try shooting it 3 different times and it never went off. I am guessing it is a weak spring in the bolt or a bad batch of primers. I have used these primers in my 25-06 with no issues. The rifle is 20 years old so I am guessing it is the spring. Here are the 3 rounds I had the 2 on the left were fired the one on the right did not.


6.5 Grendel
I was able to shoot a 3 shot group and get the adjustable gas block tuned so the bolt stayed open after every shot. I then fired 2 more shots and had the case separate in the chamber. I was able to push it out when I got home with a .30 cal brush on the end of my cleaning rod. The round that separated clocked in at 2274fps. I really don’t know why it separated. I am guessing a few things. Over worked brass, I annealed too much or after 5 reloads, the brass is shot.


338WM RL19 225 Hornady SP at 182 yards.
75gr=2776/2787/2792fps with a 3.979” group

75.5 gr=2796/2792/2819fps with a 5.723” group

76gr=2816/2850/2819fps with a 5.787” group


I am going to try H4350 and if they do not shoot better, the 338WM will be for sale unless someone here has a better idea for me to try.

All in all, it was not a very good day at the range. My next goal is to fix the 30-06 and retest some 6.5 Grendel loads to see if it was a one-time deal or if I have another issue going on. The 22-250 needs some more playing with seating depths but I think I am close.

 

[DrMike]

Yup, there are days like that. Sleep on it and tackle the challenges again.

 

[Guest]

I wouldn't get too down on things for one bad day at the range. Had a mediocre range trip myself recently. Family was out of town, so I headed out after work to burn the daylight from 530-8p. Everything went fine, as far as handloads, but groups were not as tight as I'd like, and my 350RemMag appears to shoot dead on from "freehand" but shoots about 5" to the right off my rest at the bench. Not sure where the problem is, but I suspect it's stock pressure. It's dead consistent off the bench, just 5" to the right. I could hit big chunks of clay pigeon someone had left out on the berm, at 100yds, offhand, so it shoots point of aim until it's rested. Curious for sure.

Just step back and regroup. The -06 may have a bad spring, or it may be some other issue. If you can, check the casehead-to-shoulder length on the brass, and see if the ones that don't fire are shorter. Also, check all your primers to be sure they're seated properly, as that can cause problems, too. I suspect it's either case length to the shoulder, or a spring.

The Grendel is likely cashed brass. Make a tool from a paperclip to "feel" the inside of the case. I bet you find some stretch rings (felt as a groove inside the case, using the bent paperclip) which can happen with brass that's been sized too much.

Maybe the 338 is junk, maybe not. Before I sold it, I'd have the crown lapped, and consider having it bedded if it's not already. And be sure you've tried multiple bullets (both type and weight) and powders, and primers. It could be junk, but I suspect it's some gremlin getting you there.

 

[wisconsinteacher]

How would you measure casehead-to-shoulder length?

 

[Guest]

Easiest way is this kit from Hornady:

http://www.hornady.com/store/Lock-N-Loa ... dy-1-Each/

It works with their comparator caliper attachment, so if you have their comparator and inserts, you only need to buy the bushings for headspace. These are available at Midway, MidSouth Shooters Supply, Natchez Shooters Supply, Grafs, or other mailorder houses.

Alternately, you can just use a socket from your toolbox, so long as it's close to the right diameter internally (see the Hornady chart) and does not contact the neck at all. Or a pistol case can sometimes be used, but again, be sure the neck's not hitting inside and giving you a false measurement. But the Hornady bushings are the best, most consistent, and easiest to use.

 

[Silentstalker]

Sounds like a tough day but don't give up! Just think how happy you will be when those groups tighten up!

 

[wisconsinteacher]

I think I have the 6.5 figured out. I think that piece of brass had been over worked and was weak. I went through my batch of brass and every piece that had the same tarnish as that one had a rough spot when I took a paper clip and ran it inside the case. All the other pieces were as smooth as glass. I ended up tossing 11 pieces and they all had the same tarnish. I know it is not scientific but I was able to look at the brass and guess if it was bad or not and was right every time.

I also talked to my gun smith and talked to him about the 30-06. He thinks that the chamber has opened up a little bit and the firing pin is pushing the round forward while firing and not allowing the pin to slam into the primer. He said to neck size my brass and not push the shoulder back. I am okay with this but I have 150 pieces of brass ready to go that have been FL sized. When I FL sized last time, I set the die so the bolt would just close with ease. I guess I went too far. Any ideas how to make the brass I have 100% reliable?

I will tackle the 338WM after I get the 30-06 up and running again.

 

[Oldtrader3]

Pertinent to your problems, I bought a RCBS Casemaster Gauging Tool for about $100. It is versatile and will setup to measure headspace and nearly everything else that you can think of for almost any case size and length.

Is this the Model 70 .338 WM that you were going to buy in March 2011? Firstly, what model 70 version is it and has anybody shot it enough to want to have it checked for headspace, et cetera? I have owned (4) or (5) Model 70 Winchester .338's, a .338 Federal and a .340 Weatherby Mark V. All of them were out of the box shooters, except one Model 70 rifle which had been made about the time the USRAC was shutting down. That particular Model 70 had a cross threaded barrel, and was canted one half a thread to the left. That rifle never shot right and I sent it back to Winchester and they replaced it. Too bad, because it had a beautiful piece of wood for a stock.

It is reasonable to expect a Model 70, .338 WM to shoot 1 to 1.5 MOA out of the box. The new Model 70's made by Browning in SC, are guaranteed MOA rifles. I can't remember what issues you had with the .338 WM rifle, if you could refresh my memory, I would appreciate it? Maybe someone here can help?

 

[AzDak42]

Everyone has one...

Bad nights sleep - coffee hits you a bit harder than normal...

Just about anything can throw off your mojo.

Those are the days I dig out a rimfire and just enjoy some fun.

 

[wisconsinteacher]

I did buy the rifle in March 2011. The rife came bedded and has had the trigger adjusted. I got it from a guy and he never shot it. The original owner had to sell it due to a heart surgery. It is a XTR Sporter Magnum with a number that starts G1878***. I have not had any issues with it other than grouping. I try to let it cool 15 minutes between strings of 3 shootings. All the screws and mounts have been checked 3 times over the last month and nothing has loosened up. I really don't know what is going on with it.

 

[OU812]

As for the 338 win mag I would try a different powder at this point. Maybe your rifle just don't care for RL-19.

 

[Oldtrader3]

According to the Serial number listing that I have for Model 70's, your Model 70, .338 WM as made in 1987. I had 3-4 rifles from that era and they were all decent shooting rifles. I had .243, .308 and a .338 WM, Model 70's from the 1980's. All ended up being good accurate rifles but a few Model 70's over the years have needed some pressure at the fore end tip of the stock.

If a rifle won’t shoot well I first try bending a credit card or match book cover as a shim, under the tip, for about ¼ inch of length. I do this at the range and shoot a group to see if pressure is needed on the tip. Normally it only takes about the thickness of a credit card to hold it and provide enough pressure to make the rifle shoot well.

Without seeing a picture of the bedding job that the previous owner did to the action, it is hard to know where to go from here. I assume that he did not bed the barrel to the stock tip? I used IMR 4350 powder mostly for the .338 WM.

 

[jmad_81]

Hang in there. My 338 WM has been giving me fits for years. I finally switched to the 200 ET and loaded up some Ramshot Hunter. It works really well. I also had some decent luck with RL-17 and Hunter with the 225 AB. Mine is a M70 as well. It really likes the 200 ET, and the 225 TSX. Might give a mono bullet a try.

 

[Dr. Vette]

I'd first swap bullets in the 338WM, powders second.

Generally powders are a variable used for tuning, not necessarily for changing a 5 inch rifle into a 1 inch rifle. It seems like rifles either like a certain bullet or they don't, and no amount of tweaking will change that.

Just my $0.02

Oh, and did your gunsmith check the firing pin protrusion on the 30-06? I'd look into that as well. Unless you've shot 10 000 rounds through the rifle I can't imagine your chamber enlarging enough for this to happen.

 

[RiverRider]

Teach, I have days like that a lot more often than I care to discuss, but I the fact of the matter is that I am always shooting something I am not satisfied with yet (that's why I'm shooting IT!) and I always tell myself that even if I don't find the magic load today, I am gathering data. Data is good. Learning what does NOT work is very much a part of finding out what WILL work!

 

[Oldtrader3]

I think that every rifleman goes through that stage in life. I am nearly 70 years old now and most of my rifles are ones that I have owned for 40 or more years and they have been capable or made capable of high performance levels which I am happy with. All the other rifles that weren't capable went bye-bye years ago.

The 110 gr AccuBond is a new rifle and new load for me. This .257 Roberts rifle however, shoots excellent groups with 85 BT's and 100 PT's which has qualified the rifle for my needs already. I am also just trying to include the 110 AB loads but will not die if they don't produce the performance for me.

The only other rifle project that I have at the moment is a new Number One 9.3x74R Ruger. I have just really started testing loads for this rifle with 250 gr, 270 gr and 276 grain Nosler and Norma bullets. Once these current projects are done, I will either need a new rifle toy or learn to live with rifles which all have proven their capability for groups and for handloading safety, accuracy and performance. That will not happen for a few more months yet though.