Regular or competition dies??
- Thread starter 270fan
- Start date
I am debating the same question. As far as I know, comp dies will have a more exact measurement system when it comes to reseating bullets. Also, if you are looking at purchasing dies that are type S, (one that uses various shims to set the neck) this is a waste of money unless you have a custom rifle built with a very tight throught.
I am guessing that if you switch to comp dies, you will tighten your group by @ 1/8 moa. or less. But that is just a guess.
I am guessing that if you switch to comp dies, you will tighten your group by @ 1/8 moa. or less. But that is just a guess.
Desert Fox
Handloader
- Aug 14, 2006
- 1,965
- 3
If your shooting custom rifle for competition, you probably want them but, for factory rifles, I don't think you really need them. I have a Tactical Rifle in 308 that I load, using just a regular Lee die. I was planning to buy a Redding competitions 3 die set at first, but my friend gave me a set of an old Lee, that he bought at an auction, for almost nothing. Being the cheap scape that I am, I decided to use the Lee. Prior to this, I won't even give Lee a second thought. They look cheap, and the aluminum part leave nothing to be desired. Boy, was I wrong.
Here's the load data recorded using Pact Professional Chronograph
Caliber: 308 Winchester
Bullet: 155 grain Scenar
Brass: Federal Gold medal, Full lenght sized using Lee die
Primer: Federal 210M
COAL: 2.835
5 Shot String (Data from Pact Professional Chrono)
001: 2902.8 fps
002: 2904.9 fps
003: 2900.7 fps
004: 2904.9 fps
005: 2914.4 fps
SD: 5.2
CV: 0.18 %
MAD: 3.5
CV: 0.12%
AV: 2905.5
ES: 13.7 fps
High: 2914.4 fps
Low: 2900.7 fps
As you can see the load is very consistent.
Here's a few sample group:
Here,s a ten shot group
Here's the load data recorded using Pact Professional Chronograph
Caliber: 308 Winchester
Bullet: 155 grain Scenar
Brass: Federal Gold medal, Full lenght sized using Lee die
Primer: Federal 210M
COAL: 2.835
5 Shot String (Data from Pact Professional Chrono)
001: 2902.8 fps
002: 2904.9 fps
003: 2900.7 fps
004: 2904.9 fps
005: 2914.4 fps
SD: 5.2
CV: 0.18 %
MAD: 3.5
CV: 0.12%
AV: 2905.5
ES: 13.7 fps
High: 2914.4 fps
Low: 2900.7 fps
As you can see the load is very consistent.
Here's a few sample group:
Here,s a ten shot group
rick smith
Handloader
- Apr 6, 2005
- 1,249
- 0
We all have different experiences which lead us to buy certain products. If you want to have better control of seating depth, a competition seater is far easier to use. The Type "S" neck bushing die allows you to control tension on the bullet in the neck of the case. Works with factory rifles just as well as custom rifles. If you are loading for only one specific rifle you can adjust your dies once and be done. If you load for several rifles of the same caliber or like to try a variety of bullets you will appreciate the competition seaters. Are they necessary to make accurate loads, no. Do they have the potential to increase accuracy, yes.
I started loading over forty years ago with a Lee Loader that required the use of a plastic mallet to complete each task, plastic dipper to scoop a powder charge. It loaded rounds that could be used for hunting, actually hunted with them without success. Point being, you don't have to buy all the equipment to have good loads but wanting to have the best loads I can make requires I have control of as many variables as possible.Rick.
I started loading over forty years ago with a Lee Loader that required the use of a plastic mallet to complete each task, plastic dipper to scoop a powder charge. It loaded rounds that could be used for hunting, actually hunted with them without success. Point being, you don't have to buy all the equipment to have good loads but wanting to have the best loads I can make requires I have control of as many variables as possible.Rick.
Desert Fox
Handloader
- Aug 14, 2006
- 1,965
- 3
Rick, points well taken. Regular dies do have limit. One example,seating long VLD bullets. The seater plug on the regular die contacts the tip of the bullet rather than the ogive. I have Foster Competition seater on the way. Also regular sizer die kind of tight on the neck area. With variation in brass thickness around the neck, this could problematic when sizing different brand of brass, especially those with thicker necks like the Lapua or the Federals. This is where the Type S Reddings or RCBS Competitions come into play. Don't get me wrong, I'm not gainst them. It's just my opinion that, if you only shoot factory rifle, and you factor the price of a set of these dies, you probably don't need them.
The so called competition seating dies are nice but a waste of money for regular shooting. I have them and I don't bother to even read them anylonger.
As for seating VLD bullets any seater stem can be easily modified. All this is not to say that inline dies like Wilsons might not do a little better.
The "S" type die might refer to the bushing die that Redding makes for FL sizing brass and of course using a bushing. I have a few of these and I like them as they save lubricating the insides of the neck.
The Redding dies that I have are not as well finished on the inside as RCBS dies. I have polished the Redding dies and now they are acceptable. Also Redding FL dies do not have an vent hole and are far more apt to dent cases.
RCBS now makes bushing dies so thats what I am buying now.
As for seating VLD bullets any seater stem can be easily modified. All this is not to say that inline dies like Wilsons might not do a little better.
The "S" type die might refer to the bushing die that Redding makes for FL sizing brass and of course using a bushing. I have a few of these and I like them as they save lubricating the insides of the neck.
The Redding dies that I have are not as well finished on the inside as RCBS dies. I have polished the Redding dies and now they are acceptable. Also Redding FL dies do not have an vent hole and are far more apt to dent cases.
RCBS now makes bushing dies so thats what I am buying now.
rick smith
Handloader
- Apr 6, 2005
- 1,249
- 0
You don't need a vent hole if you lube your cases properly.Rick.
Rick,
Have you figured out the chamber and cartridge drawings yet? Or maybe you still don't have them?
I lube my cases with my fingers very carefully. I do it right on the edge of not getting them them stuck with the one Redding die that I am still stuck with.
They dent just below the shoulder from air, not lube by the way.
If I go very slow they don't dent as often.
Have you figured out the chamber and cartridge drawings yet? Or maybe you still don't have them?
I lube my cases with my fingers very carefully. I do it right on the edge of not getting them them stuck with the one Redding die that I am still stuck with.
They dent just below the shoulder from air, not lube by the way.
If I go very slow they don't dent as often.
rick smith
Handloader
- Apr 6, 2005
- 1,249
- 0
Been using Redding dies for years and have never dented a case as you have shown. None of my loading buddies who use Redding dies have that problem. Don't know how you come up with some of your problems but blaming the equipment is not the correct answer.
You need to take your first sentence to the other discussion, guess you get confused.Rick.
You need to take your first sentence to the other discussion, guess you get confused.Rick.
I use Hornady New Dimension dies in several calibers, if you wanted to you can send them back to them with measurment and they will custom fit them for you, I havent looked at the manual thats with them in awhile but Im almost positive it tells you exactly how to do all that.
On the VLD bullets I have had no problems using them as there is a floating sleeve that comes down and around the neck, and then it narrows down around the bullet to keep it straght, they work great and I get under 2" groups at 300 yards using these dies!
They get my vote but I have only used RCBS, LEE, and these hornady dies, havent used any of the competition dies so I couldnt tell you
On the VLD bullets I have had no problems using them as there is a floating sleeve that comes down and around the neck, and then it narrows down around the bullet to keep it straght, they work great and I get under 2" groups at 300 yards using these dies!
They get my vote but I have only used RCBS, LEE, and these hornady dies, havent used any of the competition dies so I couldnt tell you
BigJakeJ1s
Beginner
- Feb 9, 2006
- 37
- 0
+1 for Hornady dies. They also offer an optional micrometer adjusting screw for the seating dies, but this makes them too tall to work on a Co-Ax press. The seating dies also disassemble for easy cleaning without affecting the setup, which is really handy if you use cast/swaged lead bullets.
