Reloading Help 25-06

[Ralt71]

Hello,
This is my first post, although I have read through a lot of threads on this forum over the last couple weeks. I have been reloading a little while, still have some learning to do. Long time hunter and love shooting.

I'm working on a 25-06 load for my father in law. I can shoot factory Federal out of his Weatherby Vanguard and get well under 1 MOA groups. I can not get any consistency out of my reloads though. POI is wide, SD's are large, ES is large.. it has been very frustrating.


Here is what I have done with no improvements shown;

I stopped reloading factory brass and bought new Nosler Brass

I have tried Federal Match Primers, CCI Large Rifle, CCI Large Rifle Bench Rest, Winchester large rifle, and Winchester large rifle magnum, all giving me the same results. I shot 10 rounds with each primer except for the CCI LRBR, they were considerable worse and I stopped at 6 shots.

I originally was loading Sierra Gameking 117gr bullets. I have since tried Speer HPBT 100gr. Better velocity, no consistency though.

My father in law gave me a 5lb jug of H1000 that he wanted me to use for the load. I don't know how old it is or what it has been subject to, so I went and bought a new 1lb jug of H1000. SD's and ES did improve a little, but not much and POI was no better.

I pushed through the struggle and thought maybe my seating depth was that far off, or maybe my charge weight was that bad. Ran three ladder test on charge weight with widely different results in FPS and nodes. All ladder test ran at .020 off the lands which I establish with a modified case, an OAL gauge and using one of the actual bullets I am loading with. I found a common ground across those three ladder test on charge weight. Went to seating depth, tried two different test ranging from .018 to .030 off the lands.. it's just all over the board.

Charge Weight test i am doing in .002 increments and seating depth I am doing in .003 increments.

I've done load development on several guns and have good results. I have only had two that I can't dial in completely. This one and my 6.5 PRC with AccuBond 140g. It's a decent group, just not super tight consistently.

 

[salmonchaser]

Welcome to the forum. There are a number of very squared away 25/06 guys here. I’m sure they’ll have better information than me. Don’t throw your Federal brass away, typically it’s good stuff.
Off the top of my head; H1000 and a 117 wouldn’t be my first choice. With a 100 grain bullet I’d move quite a bit faster powder. Something like 4350 wouldn’t be a bad choice I would think.
I’ve never shot sierra bullets but I would increase your jump to the lands.
Anyway, welcome aboard your inbox will be full of good ideas in short order.

 

[Ralt71]

Thank you for the quick response. I don't disagree on the H1000, but it was what he wanted to use because he has so much of it. I've told him we should consider another powder as well. Before I tell him we have to switch powders, i just want to ensure I'm not over looking something here. I did move my sholder bump from.002 to .003. I forgot to mention that on my original post.

When you say increase my jump in the lands, you mean seat it deeper and go past .030? Just want to make sure I am following what you are saying. I will certainly give it a try at this point.

 

[salmonchaser]

Father in laws can be a PIA I generally start with .02 off the lands and work out from there. I have three rifles that like Ballistic tips between .02 and .05 off. Those same rifles like Accubonds between .065 and .100 off. Another rifle likes Accubonds .02 off and Barnes at .05 off. In your case seating deeper is probably the only direction you have to go.
I’m curious if you know how much jump to the lands you had with the federal ammunition?
I’m a generalist when it comes to the 25/06, you’ll get some great insight coming up.

 

[clearwater]

A consistent load I have used was a 100 grain Nosler BT and IMR 4831. IMR 4350 works equally well.

 

[Ralt71]

Father in laws can be a PIA I generally start with .02 off the lands and work out from there. I have three rifles that like Ballistic tips between .02 and .05 off. Those same rifles like Accubonds between .065 and .100 off. Another rifle likes Accubonds .02 off and Barnes at .05 off. In your case seating deeper is probably the only direction you have to go.
I’m curious if you know how much jump to the lands you had with the federal ammunition?
I’m a generalist when it comes to the 25/06, you’ll get some great insight coming up.

Father In Laws can be, but the Mother In Laws... that's where the faint of heart drop out haha!!

I honestly have never went further than .03 from the lands on any of my rounds. I wonder if I'm too close on my 6.5 PRC too and that's why I can't get the tight group like I want. Everything I have seen and learned was start at .015 to .03. I will absolutely give this a try though.
Factory Ammo is Federal Premium with a 100g Nosler Ballistic Tip. The CBTO on that round is 2.655. I did not measure the lands with this round, but my Speer 100g lands measure out CBTO at 2.745. These won't be exact but some what close. That factory round is certainly hanging out in all the freebore.

I'm going to try deeper seating, do you suggest start at .03 and work in .003 increments or should I up that to .004 and work all the way back to maybe .055? I understand your general position and not someone who is locked in on this caliber. I am the same ha ha.

 

[Ralt71]

A consistent load I have used was a 100 grain Nosler BT and IMR 4831. IMR 4350 works equally well.

How far off the lands do you set your loads up?

 

[PJGunner]

"I originally was loading Sierra Gameking 117gr. bullets. I have since tried Speer HPBT 100gr. Better velocity, no consistency though."

I do have a 25-06 but I haven't done much loading for it. Just enough to insure it went "bang" and the bullets hit close to point of aim. IIRC, the bullets I shot were the Speer 120 gr. hot Cores.

I run the Sierra 150 gr. Game King in my .270 and it has proved to be a very accurate bullet and works just fine on game. The times I've use the 180 gr. Game Kings in a 30-06 results were just as good as the .270.

I've also had good results from Speer, Hornady and the Nosler AccuBond and Partition. I got great accuracy from the Ballistic Tips in 7MM but they were from the first run and a bit too fragile for my liking. I understand Nosler has toughened them up but I haven't used any since.

I guess what I'm trying to say is I've used bullets from all the major makers and usually have no trouble getting good groups. I'm a bit looser in my standards for hunting rifles and I don't have any dedicated target rifles so depending on the game I may consider a 1.5" rifle more than adequate for deer on up. Smaller groups are welcome but not mandatory. Most of my rifles will shoot MOA with some a lot better than MOA which is nice for bragging at the range. However, in close to 70 years hunting, I don't remember seeing any bench rests out in the field. I try to keep my shots under 300 yards if possible and have only taken three shots on game farther out.
Paul B.

 

[remingtonman_25_06]

Not often you hear of guys having issues with a 25/06. I've had several over the years and they were always very accurate and easy to tune with a wide range of cases, primers, bullets, and powder.

Since the rifle is capable of shooting under MOA with factory ammo, this leads me to think it might be something with your handloading practices. What is your accuracy goal with this rifle? I'm assuming you're shooting from a bench, with rests/bags, letting barrel cool, no wind, etc.

Only change 1 thing at a time when you go to test loads. That way you know if you're headed in the right direction. Once you start changing multiple things, you don't know what is helping or not, or the direction you need to go.

There is nothing wrong with H1000 in the 25/06 with 100g+ bullets. I've used plenty of it. Heck I used Retumbo with 100 and 115 btips way before Nosler ever put that data in their book. Exceptional velocity and accuracy.

It's hard to say or recomend what to do also without seeing targets and analyzing them. Are you doing 3 or 5 shot groups? What is the accuracy typically like? Do not worry about low es/sd. That is irrelevant out to 800 yards. Ive had many loads that have crap es/sds and still shoot under MOA out to 1K. The target tells the story, not the numbers.

Sierra Gamekings are also a superbly accurate bullet. If a rifle won't shoot a Game king or a Ballistic Tip, chances are something is wrong with the rifle...I shot plenty of 117 Gamekings from several 25s and it still holds my personal best 100 yard, 3 shot group of .043" from a Winchester 70 classic sporter. I miss that rifle...Let it go twice...

I would start with your Nosler brass that's been fired in the rifle and bump the shoulder back 2 thou with 2-3 thou neck tension. Then I'd start over with the 117g Gameking at 10 off the lands and H1000 with a primer of your choice. I always start at 10 off because if that doesnt work, theres only 1 way to go and thats deeper. Primers are the last thing to tinker with after you've found a load. I'd start somewhere in the middle for charge weight and increase by .3g increments up to your max charge. Once you have found your charge weight that gives acceptable and repeatable accuracy, you would then do a seating depth test with that charge weight you selected. I would then do .005" increments deeper to say around 40 off. After you've got the seating depth figured out, you could then swap primers in your verified load to see if it helps with accuracy and es/sd any.

Keep us posted and take pictures of your targets and post them up here.

 

[Todd NE WY]

Before I spent much time and components chasing seating depth I would change powder to some of the ones suggested above. I know he wants to use the powder he had but it may be a case of mediocre accuracy or a different powder.
Todd

 

[JD338]

Welcome to the forum.
As suggested, IMR4350 or IMR4831 should get you the desired results with a 100 gr bullet. Maybe show the results to your FIL and then tell him you switched to a powder with the appropriate burn rate.
As for the 6.5 PRC with AB's, they like some jump. Start at .050" off the lands and seat deeper in .005" increments until you get your desired results.

JD338

 

[JD338]

H1000 and Retumbo work well with the 115 gr bullets in the 25-06.

JD338

 

[SJB358]

I was going to type out a response but Jorey’s was spot on. I’m another user of slow powders in the 25-06, H1000, 7828, rl25 and 26, Retumbo.

I wouldn’t sweat the numbers either myself. Look for good consistent accurate loads and the numbers will fall in place. Also, with H1000 I seem to have better luck towards top end loads rather than lower nodes since it will likely have better case fill and ignition properties.

 

[Guy Miner]

I was going to type out a response but Jorey’s was spot on. I’m another user of slow powders in the 25-06, H1000, 7828, rl25 and 26, Retumbo.

I wouldn’t sweat the numbers either myself. Look for good consistent accurate loads and the numbers will fall in place. Also, with H1000 I seem to have better luck towards top end loads rather than lower nodes since it will likely have better case fill and ignition properties.

Yuppers! Beat me to it Scotty.

Guy

 

[RL338]

Charge Weight test i am doing in .002 increments and seating depth I am doing in .003 increments.

I would work up at 0.5gr versus 0.002gr until I start see pressure at 0.020” off.
Others have givens sound advice.

 

[AFG270]

Welcome to the forum! Lots of good advice above.

My M70 25-06 shoots just about everything well, but especially 115g Ballistic tips. I have used RL26, Retumbo, Magpro, IMR7828 and 4831. All have worked well , but RL26 gives the best accuracy and velocity.

If you get a chance try some 115g Ballistic tips, you won't be sorry.

 

[ElmerThud]

Folk have different experiences with their rifles & their points of view are valid - I found my 25-06 liked lighter weight bullets so I used 100gn Sierra 1620 Spitzer for hinds & smaller deer, but the 110gn Nosler AccuBond does the business with large deer, heavier stags of 300-400lbs in Scotland go down. I always use Federal Gold Match Magnum primers - propellant, IMR4831 or Vihtavouri N560 with Nosler 110gn bullet. IMR4350 when using the 100gn bullet. Accuracy superb - but it's as much down to brass prep (to increase life of brass) & bullet seating as the nut behind the butt.
Brass should be F/L re-sized to fired case headspace not more! I always F/L re-size. Don't worry about the chrono numbers as long as accuracy is there. Only MV is relevant to guage bullet drop over different ranges.
There isn't a magic formula relevant for all rifles & it does come down to trial & error but there is good advice on here. Good luck