Round Robin with the Bear Rifles

SJB358

Ballistician
Dec 24, 2006
32,484
3,350
Well, I wanted to try something new to me. Always get bored just shooting groups, especially with the 338. As once in awhile, I throw a shot and it just throws the whole mix out of whack..

What I did last evening was load 4 different seating depths over my most accurate charge of RL22.

Then, I put 4 stickers on the target and shot 1 round of each load into it's prospective dot. I allowed 2 minutes timed between each shot and dry fired while waiting. After I shot the 4 rounds, I let the barrel completely cool, while shooting another rifle and checking targets.

Once I came back, I shot the loads from right to left. Then from left to right, and finally, right to left again. Sorry if it sounds confusing, but it was actually pretty easy to keep track of, since I put the notes right on the target board.

Here is an overall of the amount of rounds I fired yesterday.

All these shots were taken at 137 yards. Long story as to why it was 137 yards, but that is where the bench and target backer "work" for my little range.



3.30"



3.280



3.260"



3.245"



So, again, even with a few bad shots, you can still get a decent idea of where the rifle wants to shoot. Seems to take a little of the error out of it...

Where and what would you all do next with this load.

Oh, the load is RL22, 250 PT, CCI250's and Nosler Brass

Next up was the 25-06 with 120 Swift A-Frames.

I started off really well with this rifle, then I am not sure if the light changing changed the target to my eye or what, but you'll see what I mean..

3.190



3.175



3.160



3.145



So, you can see where 3.160 and 3.145 had shots 1 and 2 touching for one and almost touching for the other.. I have to retry them, as they looked and felt pretty good, and I will try to do it all with the same lighting..

Tried doing it with the 45-70 as well.. I wanted to try some 300's, so I had some 300 grain Hornady's loaded up over 50, 51 and 52 grains of RL7..

50 grains RL7



51 grains RL7



52 grains of RL7




Again, I basically rotated between all three rifles. The next time I do this, I am going to run the target out to 200-250 yards. Except for the 45-70 as the 4X scope makes it a little tough to shoot little groups, but again, it wasn't meant to be a bug holer, and I really dig the VXR on top of the gun. Excellent FOV and excellent eye relief.

Anyhow, I like the process, and I think extra range would make it even better. I actually think flat black paint on the paper would be better as earlier, the sun catches those bright orange pasty's and reflects too much light.
 
The 45-70 is about what one might expect to work well out to 150 yards. That isn't bad at all. It seems obvious that the 25-06 likes a bit of jump with that charge. The distribution of shots with the 338WM appears to favour the OAL of 3.260 inches. I would not be uncomfortable shooting those particular charges.
 
Mike, why do you think the 3.260" is the better shot group? Just wondering, as 3.30 looked pretty decent, discounting the 3rd shot. Then they seemed to get larger as the COAL decreased? Just asking as I need to learn what your looking for?
 
For the 338, 250 grain you might try a different primer if you were so inclined. If you're wanting to try and make some changes I would look at 3.245 or 3.30 myself. 1-3 are pretty much in a vertical line I would think a slight powder charge change, up/down .2 at a time would bring those shots closer together.

Even if you did nothing to them they will kill just fine as they are.

Bill
 
Scotty,

All are more than adequate. I'm looking at the uniformity of dispersion, which would lead me to look more closely at that particular OAL. It may be an artifact; but if it holds, it will be more consistent. Actually, you can't speak definitively until you have a larger sampling. Just my bias, I suppose, when all is said and done.
 
Good idea Bill, I do have some Federal 215M's I could try out as well.. I will mull over this a bit while the brass is tumbling.

Good point, thanks Mike, I will look them over to see where I should go next. I am also cleaning the barrel up a little. It has been awhile since it has been cleaned, I will start with a freshly fouled bore next time around.
 
Hi Scotty
I've also been looking at the dispersion of the shots and can't help but think there is something else going on like bullet weight uniformity. I cast and shoot alot of lead pistol bullets. I weigh and sort them before loading and a few grains of weight can make a difference at the low velocities I push these and can't help but think that there could be even a bigger effect with higher velocities with jacketed bullets in rifles.
 
Well, I went back yesterday, with the 25-06 and 120 Swift's, took the chrono as well.

I started at the most promising OAL from the previous day.

3.145" (3134, 3140, 3137, 3160)



Then I started going shorter

3.130" (3136, 3146, 3127, 3129)



and at 3.115 they started to open back up (3092, 3050, 3131, 3127)



Overall, I am very happy with the 120 Swift, in the 3100 range. Still wanna drive a few into the jugs, and then refine the zero. I know it isn't the ultimate black bear rifle, but with a good bullet, I am pretty sure Lori will hammer any bear within 300 yards.
 
Lori will have no difficulty in drifting a bear with the Swift. That is looking pretty good.
 
OU812":11d68zul said:
For the 338, 250 grain you might try a different primer if you were so inclined. If you're wanting to try and make some changes I would look at 3.245 or 3.30 myself. 1-3 are pretty much in a vertical line I would think a slight powder charge change, up/down .2 at a time would bring those shots closer together.

Even if you did nothing to them they will kill just fine as they are.

Bill

Bill, I tried the Federal 215M's with the exact same load, along with 4 more of the CCI250's

The 215M's shot (2775, 2768, 2749, 2750)

The CCI250's shot (2779, 2805, 2804, and 2758) and bundled into an excellent group yesterday.

I was surprised to see the 215's being a hair slower overall than the CCI250's. I didn't think that would be the case, but either way, I am pretty good on the 250 load now. Just gotta figure out which one I wanna take West, as I have a good one now for the 210's, 250's and the 275 Speers....
 
Agree, that .25-06 should do very nicely on black bear, particularly with a good bullet like the 120.


For comparison, my .25-06 loads measure:

115 Nosler Partitions = 3.23"
115 Nosler Ballistic Tips = 3.25" Blue Cyclones
115 Berger VLD = 3.29" The Needle

Dunno why, but I had to name two of my .25-06 loads! :grin:
 
Guy Miner":jajz2ive said:
Agree, that .25-06 should do very nicely on black bear, particularly with a good bullet like the 120.


For comparison, my .25-06 loads measure:

115 Nosler Partitions = 3.23"
115 Nosler Ballistic Tips = 3.25" Blue Cyclones
115 Berger VLD = 3.29" The Needle

Dunno why, but I had to name two of my .25-06 loads! :grin:

My 115 PT's shoot excellent at 3.070" Guy. That load runs right at 3100 as well with RL19.



It is my back up load to the Swift's, but I wanted to opt for a slightly tougher bullet in the event she uses the same rifle this Fall for Elk.
 
SJB358":4yiu2q8l said:
OU812":4yiu2q8l said:
For the 338, 250 grain you might try a different primer if you were so inclined. If you're wanting to try and make some changes I would look at 3.245 or 3.30 myself. 1-3 are pretty much in a vertical line I would think a slight powder charge change, up/down .2 at a time would bring those shots closer together.

Even if you did nothing to them they will kill just fine as they are.

Bill

Bill, I tried the Federal 215M's with the exact same load, along with 4 more of the CCI250's

The 215M's shot (2775, 2768, 2749, 2750)

The CCI250's shot (2779, 2805, 2804, and 2758) and bundled into an excellent group yesterday.

I was surprised to see the 215's being a hair slower overall than the CCI250's. I didn't think that would be the case, but either way, I am pretty good on the 250 load now. Just gotta figure out which one I wanna take West, as I have a good one now for the 210's, 250's and the 275 Speers....


As long as you have good loads to choose from that's all that matters.
 
Well, I went back out to refine the 200 yard zero a little on the 120 Swift's from Lori's 25-06. 3.130 didn't disappoint me in the least. Accuracy was excellent and RL22 looks excellent in this cartridge. Speeds run right at 3140 and the bullet is top notch as far as I can tell. Should put a thump on a bear.





I am hoping to get Lori out with the rifle soon, just to give it a little work, but all this was shooting prone off the ground. Pretty happy..

The 338 Win Mag is shooting well too.. 210's at about 3075 seem to be hammering. Shot 3, 3 shot groups at 200..





While, it isn't a varmint gun, it did well. The Swaro tracked well, but I keep forgetting about the 1cm per click part! :lol:

I did get the last group, spot on with 3 in the black, so it is ready for bear!

I would be elated to smack a good bear with that rifle. It isn't the most accurate rifle I own, but it is consistent all the time and handles excellent. The glass is spot on and a perfect match for my needs. Can't wait to hunt it again.
 
Excellent report. I also have read several of your other reports from the range. I also remember a report you did about the Swift bullet, but I can not find it at this time. I like the Nosler products, but those Swift bullets certainly do perform well, I have also had good results with the North Fork products
 
Try the 215 Mag Match primers. I was shooting 1.5 inch groups at 200 yards with them and the 225 Partitions in the .340 Weatherby.
 
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