Selecting powder?

[Big Norm]

I have been reloading for a year now and have chosen powders to try with the various loads by the suggestion of fellow reloaders..

My question, what is the science behind choosing a powder? What are all the variables one must consider.. short vs long barrel, bullet weight, case volume, altitude, purpose..

Example.. 7mm mag
Nosler 140 ballistic tip
Nosler manual recommends powders as fast as 4064 to powders as slow as n165
Hodgdon even has powders as slow as h1000..

How does one know where to really start without just grabing a powder and taking a chance!

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[Sas874runner]

Normally I start by using a favorite powder. I tend to like powders slower than book loads most of the time. There are about of powders out there and you will find that powders tend to be found more so in groups of burn rates. I.e. rl22 is close to 4831 and right around 7828. So if you load your 7mm with h1000 and connot find consistancy or accuracy you would change powders in the same burn rate. Like rl25 or retumbo. Its more so a preference of types of powders in my opinion

 

[DrMike]

Factors I weigh include such matters as bullet weight, case volume, case fill, bearing surface and ambient temperatures in which I'll be shooting. The loads listed in a reputable reloading guide, or posted on a reputable powder manufacturer site or bullet manufacturer site, will have been pressure tested; they will give you acceptable results within reason. In a time when powders are somewhat difficult to secure, many people are constrained to work with whatever is available. The differences in velocities are usually not enough to make a significant difference at usual hunting ranges. For the hand loader who is trying to wring the last several feet per second from his/her load, the slower burning powders may be the desired choice. However, higher velocities do not always translate into the greatest accuracy. At that point, I consider barrel time for transit of the bullet and case fill volume before beginning to load. Fortunately, I have access to a pretty good range of powders at the present time, so I can be somewhat particular. I am still hard pressed to beat the recommendations of the ballisticians who test the loads listed in the Nosler Guide or written up in other guides.

 

[Guy Miner]

First thing I do is take a shortcut!

There are so many different powders listed in the manuals anymore, that choosing a good one can be a daunting task.

However, some of the manuals, like Nosler & Sierra, provide info on an "accuracy load." This load is generally one which has proven to be accurate in several different rifles. I have found that I can follow the load manual, and work up towards their listed "accuracy load" and get good results. Or a call to Sierra, or Nosler or one of the powder companies can provide that info. Or there are some excellent sources in print, such as published by John Barsness.

I figure that Nosler & Sierra technicians load and shoot many thousands more rounds then me, every year, year after year, and likely in a wider variety of firearms. I may as well tap into that knowledge and try the powder they list as their preferred for accuracy.

Some examples of shortcuts to an accurate load that I've taken:

7mm Rem mag, 160 gr bullets. This was a new combination for me many years ago. One phone call to Sierra, and I was advised to work up towards 65 grains of RL-22 with the Sierra 160 gr Gameking. Oh my goodness! This turned out to be a load that had it all. Great accuracy and excellent velocity. Later I switched to the Nosler 160 instead, but wow... What an outstanding load. One phone call was all it took.

.308 Win, 168 gr bullets. Tapped into the knowledge from my long-range target shooting buddies and to a man they recommended I try Varget, working towards 45 - 46 grains. Double checked my manuals to see if it was safe. According to Hodgdon it is, according to Sierra, it's an over-pressure load. Well, several barrels later, I'm still running the same load, 45 grains of Varget and a 168 gr Nosler. Accurate? You bet. When I'm "on" I've shot 3" groups at 600 yards with that combo. I'll call that accurate.

.375 H&H mag, 260 gr Nosler AccuBond. I picked up a used .375 Number One rifle a few years ago. Had NO IDEA what might constitute an accurate load for it. Found out that Nosler recommended 69 grains of RL-15 for their accuracy load. Coupled that with some info from a prior owner of that rifle, and I'm happily shooting that recommended load. It's a dandy. Accurate and powerful, though listed as Nosler's minimum recommended load. It's still about 4,000 ft lbs of energy at the muzzle, so it's hardly a mouse gun...

Barsness has published some excellent loads for a variety of hunting cartridges.

.30-06, 180's and Ramshot Hunter... I'd never tried Ramshot's "Hunter" gunpowder in the .30-06, but with 180 gr bullets this is a real winner. Excellent accuracy. I've yet to run it over a chronograph, but have been told that 2800 fps is quite likely.

Go to the sources. Nosler & Sierra manuals. Other experienced shooters/handloaders. Published recommended loads.

There are a number of loads that are very well known as being reliable, accurate, combinations, proven in many different rifles.

I've had some handloaders dispute this with me. They claim that every rifle is unique and that a handloader MUST explore many different powders, and that no one can make an "accuracy load" that will work in many different rifles... :roll:

Really? So... How does Federal produced "match ammo" that consistently shoots under MOA in almost every .308 I've seen it used in? Hmmmm. How can our military & police snipers grab a box of issued ammo and expect excellent precision? They're just using factory loaded match grade ammo, loaded in a manner that makes it highly likely to be accurate, sometimes scary accurate, from a variety of rifles.

Take the shortcut, use previously developed info. It works!

Regards, Guy

 

[Big Norm]

Thanks guys, that's a lot of great info.. the reason I asked the question is because I have rifles with various length barrels for 20in to 26in. Just wondering if I should be using faster powders in the shorter barrels so I get a full burn before the bullet leaves the barrel and slower powders for longer barrels, Or is there more to it than that

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[RiverRider]

In general:

- about all the powder that will burn does so before the bullet moves more than a few inches and the powder that gives the highest velocity in a 26-inch barrel will also give the highest velocity in a 20-inch barrel.
- in a given cartridge, the lighter bullets match up best with a faster burning powder and heavier bullets benefit from slower burning powders
- using 100% of the available space under the bullet is thought to be optimal (but sometimes things just don't seem to work out that way), and with at in mind
- use the fastest burning propellant that will fill the available space under the bullet 100% AND yield safe pressures.

An interesting thing about smokeless powders is that grain for grain, they all yield about the same amount of energy but the burn rates are what distinguish them and their particular utility.

Some say that bright muzzle flash is proof that the powder is still burning, but that's just not so.

 

[RememberBaker]

This is an exceptional thread. Lots of helpful information.

 

[Sas874runner]

It certainly is! All it takes is one question and all these fine gents on here can really give you the information you need. That's why I still say this is the best forum to be on. Doesn't matter if you think its a dumb question or not. These guy can really straighten any confusion out.

 

[FOTIS]

Well I have been doing this for such a long time, like others on here, that there are very few cartridges I have not worked with.
Pretty bad when you can go around quoting loads that have worked for you in the past.

Anyway as of late if I am working with a cartridgeI am not familiar with I reference quickload. There I input a minimum of 90% loading density up to 105%. Then I look for velocity.

 

[gerry]

This is some of the info Guy mentioned earlier, lots of great loads listed here.

http://fmgpublications.ipaperus.com/FMG ... 2/?page=16

 

[FOTIS]

Good link!

 

[gerry]

Here's another one that talks about different barrel lengths.

http://fmgpublications.ipaperus.com/FMG ... 2/?page=10

 

[RiverRider]

Well I have been doing this for such a long time, like others on here, that there are very few cartridges I have not worked with.
Pretty bad when you can go around quoting loads that have worked for you in the past.

Anyway as of late if I am working with a cartridgeI am not familiar with I reference quickload. There I input a minimum of 90% loading density up to 105%. Then I look for velocity.

Fotis, are you going to spill the beans on this loading project or is this something you've already shared?

 

[FOTIS]

Well I have been doing this for such a long time, like others on here, that there are very few cartridges I have not worked with.
Pretty bad when you can go around quoting loads that have worked for you in the past.

Anyway as of late if I am working with a cartridge I am not familiar with I reference quickload. There I input a minimum of 90% loading density up to 105%. Then I look for velocity.

Fotis, are you going to spill the beans on this loading project or is this something you've already shared?

I am sorry I do not follow. Which project?

 

[wildgene]

...I find that cross-referencing is useful, too. Checking loads from as many different sources as possible, looking for powders that come up frequently for a specific cartridge or checking for loads w/ powders that aren't listed in manuals (eg. RL-17)

 

[Sas874runner]

There are a lot of ways to go about handloading. A lot of trial and error. But the most important thing is always go about it safely. Always do lad work ups and anytime that you change a component or open a new lot of powder. Start from minimum. Safest way to check. Powder lots can vary and cause changes in pressure or worse. Bullets can affect pressure just as much. And if you ever feel something is not right... double check triple check and if you still feel something is wrong. Ask someone. These guys are great.

 

[Oldtrader3]

Not only do loading manuals list powder loads with ranked top accuracy loads but they also rank loads from fastest to lowest muzzle velocity in their lab testing. This should help you pick the family of muzzle speeds that you want in your loads.

 

[RiverRider]

Well I have been doing this for such a long time, like others on here, that there are very few cartridges I have not worked with.
Pretty bad when you can go around quoting loads that have worked for you in the past.

Anyway as of late if I am working with a cartridge I am not familiar with I reference quickload. There I input a minimum of 90% loading density up to 105%. Then I look for velocity.

Fotis, are you going to spill the beans on this loading project or is this something you've already shared?

I am sorry I do not follow. Which project?

I obviously misunderstood. I thought maybe you had something going right now.

Anyway as of late if I am working with a cartridge I am not familiar with I reference quickload.

I missed the "if."

 

[FOTIS]

I am starting to work on my 375 VM2....

 

[Sas874runner]

I am starting to work on my 375 VM2....

Definitely gotta keep us updated on that one