Shooting for groups

[300WSM]

Thought we would throw some of this around on here and see what all people are doing.

When I shoot a group with a hunting platform I only go three shots. I have the fore end and rear stock area rested. Most times I shoot a certain height over the center at 100 so I can just do the math on the trajectory of the other yardages. I almost always use the traditional redfield target.

Other platforms I will shoot different numbers for a group. For example 10/22 I will shoot a whole 25 rd mag and check the grouping of that. Different stuff like that. Pistols are different too.

AR15 I almost never shoot for group as generally I'm using cheap ammo and the ones I have except for one have the shorter 16" barrel. I will shoot those at the 300 yard metal ram and the 450 yard metal ram.

P.S.
This might be an age old thread subject but I still can't get the search feature to work right. :x

 

[joelkdouglas]

Interesting.

I'm currently without a centerfire rifle in my house, as one .30-06 is at Bartlein getting a new barrel and the other .30-06 is getting a stock shaped for it. The second one will probably not be a .30-06 when it grows up.

But when they get back, I plan on 5-shot groups. I used to shoot 3-shot groups, and I'm making the change to better reflect field expectations. For my 22LR I've been shooting 5-shot groups.

Now my black powder rifle is another matter. If that thing gets within 2 inches of where I pointed it I'm happy, with a 1-shot group. It still needs more work, and it's open sights.

 

[R Flowers]

You will probably get lots of responses on this.

Like you, for centerfire rifle cartridges used for big game hunting I shoot from a solid rest and shoot three shot groups. Some folks prefer 5 shots, but three tells me what I want to know in a hunting rifle.

For varmint rifles I shoot 5 shot groups. We are burning a lot less powder here and do like to see what a series of 5 shots does.

For 22's, be it a rifle or pistol, I also shoot 5 shot groups. You can save yourself a lot of grief if you remember that when switching from one brand of 22 ammo to another it may take a few shots for the gun to settle in. The wax coatings from some brands are not really compatible and will cause strange groups when switching from brand to brand.

Since I shoot IHMSA silhouette competition, I also shoot 5 shot groups in all my pistols ranging from 22 LR to 44 Magnum. (I own one customized Remington 700 XP 100 chambered in 7BR that has shot back to back five shot groups at 100 yards of 0.35 inches when wearing a 2.5 x 8 power scope, and that with the factory barrel.)

 

[Elkman]

I shoot both depending upon my mood of the day. I have found however that I quite breathing or tense every muscle in my body on the 5th shot. So I would be better off just throwing that one over my shoulder. Three shots are all you need for most hunting rifles. I think what is most important however is to shoot more than one. By that I mean if you get a really good three shot group, it should be tested numerous times to insure consistency. Most of those in the know (not me) believe that a hunting rifle should shoot somewhere around 2 to 2 1/2 inches. Many here can beat that most any day.

 

[Desert Fox]

For hunting rifle 3 shot should be enough. For a target or varmint rifle, 5 shot will be the norm... 10 is even better.

 

[Oldtrader3]

According to some ballistic scientists, engineer types that I have been reading lately, they say to shoot 4-shot groups. It actually does eliminate the issues with steady hold of that 5th shot in a string which is an issue for many people, as Bill mentioned, but it also gives you 33% additional ballistics information than a 3-shot group to make the results a little more statistically relevent.

I took that advice to heart last year when I pulled a few 5th shots because I was tired of shooting strings. Personally, I have much less trouble shooting 4-shot strings and if it gives me better statistics based on degrees of freedom, so be it.

 

[Wincheringen]

3 shots is about all I can hang on for. It takes a fair bit of concentration to aim exactly the same every time especially with a big boomer. Varmint rifles are usually low enough that 5 is easy. With handguns I like 10 shot groups.

 

[Desert Fox]

The key to shooting 5 shot group is to spread your shot over longer interval between shot.. say 1 shot every 1 to 1.5 minutes. Try shooting with both eyes open. It relieves eye strain. Some of my best 5 shot group was shot with both eyes open.

 

[SJB358]

The key to shooting 5 shot group is to spread your shot over longer interval between shot.. say 1 shot every 1 to 1.5 minutes. Try shooting with both eyes open. It relieves eye strain. Some of my best 5 shot group was shot with both eyes open.

I shoot everything with both eyes open. Too much strain and loss of situational awareness with an eye closed. Once you learn to shoot with both eyes open it make target and sight acquisition much faster as well. Much less stress on your noggin.

 

[DrMike]

I've shot with both eyes open for over forty years. It allows for acquisition of all that is going on outside of the FOV afforded by the scope and makes for a more accurate and less tiring shoot.

 

[SJB358]

I've shot with both eyes open for over forty years. It allows for acquisition of all that is going on outside of the FOV afforded by the scope and makes for a more accurate and less tiring shoot.

They also say in a tense situation your body will not close an eye. Your brain will not allow for the blockage of information if you are in a fight or flight scenario. Just heard that somewhere? :shock:

 

[338winmag]

Darn!
I am not worthy! I shoot with one eye closed.
I can definitely understand the great benefits to both eyes opened though.

Once I get my custom load working at 100 yards, I no longer sight in at 100. I go 200 yards. I shoot one fouler and a 3 shot group now.

Biggest reason why I do not shoot 5 shot groups. I am scared to see if the 5th one becomes a flier. :lol: :lol: :mrgreen:

 

[lhsako]

I shoot 3 shots groups for big game hunting loads. once i have the load i want i repeatedly clean the barrel, foul itw/ 1 shot,then shoot it off the bench(w/ front and rear bags). i feel it critical where the first shot goes out of a cold,clean, fouled barrel. i also practice alot at various distances from field positions. adherence to this m.o. has served me very well. if i'm traveling by air to hunt i have addtional steps i take to assure being properly sighted in. more on that latter IF anyone is interested...lol

 

[300WSM]

if i'm traveling by air to hunt i have addtional steps i take to assure being properly sighted in. more on that latter IF anyone is interested...lol

I would like to know your extras when flying

 

[bullet]

I shoot 3 shot groups to see basically what I have developed with my load. Then I shoot three five shot groups to confirm. I even shoot 10 shot groups waiting three minutes between shots when working on my extremely accurate loads to really see just how consistent they really are. It just depends on what I am doing that determines how many shots I will take with a given load.

 

[pre6422hornet]

I only shoot 3 shot groups as I only load 3 rounds into my rifles. I have this whole "number 3" thing going on. I only take 9 rounds out when I leave the truck. 9 is a multiple of three, and then I have enough rounds to load the rifle three times. Funny thing is the only time I have ever shot more than once was twice ( both times the animal was dead, just didn't know it yet). I figure that if I haven't hit it after three chances...I don't deserve a fourth or fifth. :grin:

I do shoot 5 shot strings out my only " target rifle" , a FN SPRA1. That rifle just flat out shoots. :mrgreen:

 

[hardpan]

With my weatherby's I shoot 6 shots, in 2 3 shot groups. I wait at least 10 minutes between shots as I want to know how the gun shoots on a cold barrel. In general, I make my first hunting shot count and I am far more concerned about the accuracy of the first shot than I am about the accuracy of a 2nd or 3rd quick shot. Once I have a load worked up, then I shoot a fairly fast 3 shot group to find out how much shooting a heated barrel changes the shot.

All of my guns shoot under an inch using the 3 shots above. I consider a load good when I get it to a 0.5 inch consistently. I would not own a hunting rifle that could not group below 1.5... and have gotten rid of rifles that I could not get to an inch.

On the 300 RUM, I shoot a 3 shot group, and don't really care about the cold barrel unless I am shooting in some sort of contest (just with friends and other hunters). That gun is a very accurate rifle, and seems to like almost every load that i try. but again, i still worry way more about the first shot.

hardpan

 

[Oldtrader3]

I order to prove that you have a confidence level that 2 separate groups and their standard deviations are 75% statistically identical to one another with the same rifle, it takes (2) 60 shot groups to do prove this statistically.

A (4) group is about 30% more representative of actual group size from that rifle than a 3-shot group is. That is why rifle makers all show off 3-shot groups. It is all playing the odds.

 

[bullet]

The odds are really reduced if one shoots three or four 5 shot groups and even better three 10 shot groups. When this is done (and that is why I do it) there is no question what you have as far as the accuracy of the rifle and load. I do it this way, because in the field when I am taking the shot, I want to put the bullet right where I want it whether up close or on out there a ways. When I get to the field with one of my loads I know it will do the job with no surprises and no guess work and that means a lot to me.

 

[PJGunner]

When doing initial load work up, I do 3 shot groups with shots fired 1 minute apart. Once I find sveral load levels shooting close groups i go to 5 shot groups fired 2 minutes apart. It get so hot during Tucson's summers that even a 2 minute wait eally isn't enough but I'm short on patience. :roll: I'm not particularly anal on group size. I would rather have a rifle that did 1.5" consistantaly than one that did .375" groups but point of impact was never the same. I did have one that did just that. The very pretty piece of wood that gun was bedded in would change POI everytime a bird within 1,000 miled took a leak. It was beded and rebedded five times before I said to hell with it, drove up to McMillan's in the Phoenix area and bought a stock. I glass bedded that one and while it no longer does .375" groups, it generally stays right at one inch and I'm happy with that. The wild waliing stock? I'll be making grips for several handguns from it. The wood is just too pretty to throw away or burn in the barbie.
Paul B.