Should have used a Ballistic TIp factory ammo woes

[Thebear_78]

I have shot three deer in the last few days with 165gr WInchester CXP2 165gr 30/06 ammo. It is pretty accurate out of my 24" encore barrel but its terminal performance has been pretty poor.

I shot the first deer a 2.5yr old 8pt at just over 300 yards, behind the shoulder and exited out the last rib on far side. Deer ran about 80 yards and piled up in a large sumac bush. There was no blood or hair at the spot of the shot, and no blood trail until the last 20 yards or so before the deer piled up, if I hadn't have heard him crash in the bush I might not have found him.

Second deer was a large doe at about 90 yards quartering away. Bullet hit behind the on side shoulder and exited out in front of other shoulder, she ran 80-90 yards and piled up in some very tall thick grass. There was no evidence of a hit at the spot of the shot, no blood, no hair, I walked circles around where she was hit and never found any blood. I looked for 15-20 minutes walking all around the scene of the shot but couldn't find anything, sat back up in my tree, then again later that morning I looked again for another half hour, no sign. Finally figured I must have missed. Three days later we found her while walking out of the field, she had bloated enough that her white belly fur was vissible from a higher elevation.

The third deer I shot a day after the lost doe. She was 350 yards out in a winter wheat feild. Shot was perfect behind the shoulder exited out the off shoulder. Very dramatic reaction to the shot and she ran into some woods about 40 yards from where she was shot. Again, no blood or hair at the spot of the shot. I knew I hit her so I kept following where she was headed. finally about 50 yards from the spot of the shot I found one small drop of blood. Then a little further I found a little spray of blood and within another 20 yards was a decent blood trail, she hopped over a fence and fell down a ditch, dieing in the bottom of the ditch about 75-80 yards from where she was shot. Again without all of that follow up and my confidence in the shot I probably wouldn't have found that deer. These are the first deer I have shot with the 30/06 and I'm not too impressed. I have shot a lot of deer with the .243 winchester and never had this much trouble with finding deer. Deer I have shot with the .243 all of them either were laying right at the shot or left a decent ammount of blood trail to follow. I have also shot a handfull with 25/06 and 7mm Rem with similar results.

It really kills me to have wasted that large doe. I won't be using this ammo any more. I can't say it failed because all of the deer where dead in short order but very idssapointed in the blood trails. Any one else had this kind of expereince with winchester 30/06 ammo?

 

[longwinters]

I don't know about the ammo but the 06 is a great caliber. I guess I would try some different ammo also.

Long

 

[rick smith]

Having killed well over 100 whitetails with a 30/06, I have all the confidence I need to continue to use it. Also have killed hogs, Mule Deer and an Elk with the 30/06.Rick.

 

[Thebear_78]

Obviously the 30/06 is an excellent round for any game animal in north america, I don't doubt the 06 ability, just the ammo. For some reason it just wasn't leaving any blood trails, I'm pretty sure that a more rapidly expanding bullet like the ballistic tip would have done more damage and left a better blood trail.

I was just trying ti impress that it doens't get much more plain jane vanilla than a 30/06 shooting 165gr softpoint ammo. I have always used premium bullets before, but figured that these would work fine for deer and I don't reload the 30/06.

 

[DrMike]

Deer can be amazingly hearty animals. I've seen them drop to the shot, and I've witnessed them running as though the shot was a clean miss. I have seen them run quite a ways when a perfect shot. My first deer taken with factory ammunition was from a 300 WSM. The deer was lasered at 324 yards. At the shot, the deer looked up, walked a few steps and laid down as though planning on a nap. He stretched his neck, and expired. There was no reaction other than laying down. You may need to begin loading for the '06, using BTs and/or ABs.

 

[SJB358]

You would think that plain jane power points would have done better for you. Usually they expand well. I think you are right at looking for Ballistic Tips. I am sure you will get more dramatic hits. Also, dropping down in bullet weight might help put some more shock into the deer. Seems odd that with and entry and exit you didn't get any blood or hair. Seems like great solid hits. Good job getting your deer. Hope you find a more suitable load for your 06. Scotty

 

[cloverleaf]

The trouble with core lokts (and other cheap stuff) is that they kill deer with boring regularity..... sounds like you had good shot placement.
I have been forced to hunt with shotgun slugs in the last few years. I have hit a white tail in the near side ribs, rihght behind the shoulder, had the slug travese the entire length of the deer (well almost) and come to rest under the skin on the far side of the hind quarter. This was a copper solid, expanded perfectly, did alll kinds of internal damage, at about thirty yards!! Do the math on teh energy deposited by that slug and deer should have done a reverse barrel role. Had it not been for the hair floating in the breeze and the fact that I "knew" he was hit there would have been almost no indication he was hit. Almost no blood trail. This deer was feeding his way along-no adrenaline. He turned and walked down the corn row away from me for another 30 yards. Deer are weird, they can soak up a lotta lead. That said, 300 plus is a lotta yards. Dont have any idea what the energy figures look like but even the mighty '06 is runnin out gas I'll bet. Im not on your case. personally I shoot BT's whenever its bigger than a coyote. Know how ya feel. CL

 

[hardpan]

Hi there,
Nothing wrong with your shots or the gun. Not sure what a cxp2, but it seems to be a hollowpoint. I tend to like a bullet that exits. There is almost always some sort of visceral material with an exit, but it can be a bear to find. Also, with an exit, you generally have a blood trail as well unless the animal is very fat or unless you stop the heart right away. Again, it can be pretty hard to find. More often than not, the ballistic tip enters and then really just almost explodes. Often, there is no exit, but the deer just drops. Gotta like that!


I use a lot of accubonds. They are a strong bullet, and open up wide enough to guarantee a blood trail if I get an exit. Only once, did I not get an exit. My son shot a bull elk in the shoulder, the bullet broke the shoulder, took out part of the heart, went though the rib cage and stayed just under the hide. The elk went about 100 yds and laid down. Frankly, I was pretty upset with the shot as I prefer to see a double lung for tracking purposes. But, no blood due to the lack of an exit wound, and I recovered the elk about 30 minutes later. Had to kind of watch myself as my son was pretty young, and I did not want to ruin his hunt. Here is the elk.

Bottom line, the gun is fine, but I might consider a cartridge that opens up a bit more,.

 

[SJB358]

That is a great elk Hardpan. Your son did well. I have taken a bunch of deer with a 12 gauge using Buckhammers and Sluggers and lots of times, they pass right through and the deer does run a little. Same thing with the rifles, unless large bones are hit. I think if you stepped up to a Ballistic Tip you would get shorter blood trails and stronger reactions from the 06. It has plenty of juice to knock a whitetail down on regular shots with good deer bullets. Scotty

 

[FOTIS]

I don't know about the ammo but the 06 is a great caliber. I guess I would try some different ammo also.

Long

I concur! Use a 150 165 bt or AB and you will be cured!

 

[DrMike]

Hardpan,

Looks like your son did a good job. Things like that happen, but you appear to have handled it well. The smile on his face is priceless (to say nothing of your smile).

 

[Antelope_Sniper]

Yep, go with 125-165gr BT and you won't have that problem again.

 

[YoteSmoker]

Isn't Winchester CXP2 factory ammo the same as the silver ballistic tip?

 

[cloverleaf]

Ooooh!?!? Does yote smoker have a thought there? I cant remember.....time for some research. CL

 

[DrMike]

While the Winchester BST loads are rated as CXP2 (150 grain, 168 grain and 180 grain), previous iterations of the Power Point loads were also rated as CXP2. Perhaps Thebear_78 will clear up the question by informing us whether he was using a BST loading or a PP load.

 

[SJB358]

I was kind of thinking they were regular Power Points cause he said they were less expensive than premium stuff and man the last time I checked, the BST stuff was darn near as much as the AccuBond stuff. Seems odd he had that much of an issue with them. I kinda liked the regular SilverTip stuff. Lots of the old timers had great luck with them. Plus they were kind of Premium in their day. Scotty

 

[DrMike]

According to the Winchester web site, they are no longer loading 165 grain power points or silver tips in the 30-06. Must have been older loadings. I never had a problem with either the power points or the silver tips in the rifles that I shot them in. As has already been said, the killed with boring regularity.

 

[OldMan]

I won a 30-06 in a big bull elk contest some years ago, a Model 70 Featherweight and took to loading 150 BT's in it. I have never had a deer do anything but drop straight down when hit with this load! The recoil is almost non existent, it is accurate and it puts them down right now! It also does well on elk with the 165 AB and IMR4350.

Max load of 760 powder
150 Ballistic tip
CCI-250 primers
well under an inch at 100 yds

 

[Thebear_78]

They were the 165gr Power Points. I just happened to have several boxes of them laying round at my dads house so used them. Will be going with a better bullet in the future.

 

[Oldtrader3]

The Winchester CXP2 is also the Fail Safe bullet in some Winchester ammo that was made a few years ago. My local dealer still has CXP2-Fail Safe ammo on the shelf. The new CXP2 Winchester is the Nosler AccuBond which should expand. The Fail Safe looks like a hollow pointed bullet. That is the easiest way to identify them.

The problem with Fail Safe bullets always has been expansion or lack thereof. The bullet may not have hit a rib or anything sollid enough to cause expansion. That would explain the lack of blood trail and the distance travelled until death.