Starting 264WM load work

[tddeangelo]

So, I got to some reloading last night. I have virgin Nosler brass for the 264, and no fired brass to work with.

In light of that, I figured I'd make the first round seated WAY long, and the work it shorter till I found where the bolt JUST closes. That, I reasoned, would at least get me relatively close to the distance where it touches the lands. I also removed the striker assembly from the bolt so there was no chance of an AD. :shock:

What surprised me is that the SAAMI max OAL for the 140AB's I'm using is listed in Nosler 7 and in QL as 3.340". My rifle's bolt won't close until the OAL on the 140AB is 3.240-3.243.

Seems short, although looking at the data in Nosler 7, they tested the loads used to get that data with a COAL of 3.190". To get the often-recommended 0.060" jump to the lands for an AB, then, I'd need to seat to about 3.180? That seems kinda short?

Once I have some fired brass, I can get a better measurement of the distance to the lands. Just seems really odd. I did a few rounds this way, working in to where the bolt would close, and it came out to 3.240, +/- 0.003", every time.

 

[DrMike]

It all sounds good, Tom. It seems you are taking all the right steps; I can't believe it will be overly long before you have some good results.

 

[SJB358]

I will check mine when I get to the house Tom, but I think I'm around 3.250". I will verify for you though. The measurement is a hair different for the BTs but I use the same seating die setting for both.

 

[tddeangelo]

Thanks guys.

Scotty, 3.240 takes it to the lands, or all but to them. To get a 60/1000 jump, I'd need to stuff the bullets down to 3.180. I just ran that by QL, and all looks good for pressures yet. I referenced OBT "node" information and looks like I should work for a vel. of 3060 to hit what they predict as an accuracy node. I loaded 4 each of 63.3gr, 63.8gr, and 64.3gr of RL25. That should put me right in that ballpark, although I won't really know till I shoot it, and then measure water capacity to fine tune the data a bit more (plus chrono those initial rounds).

I'm going to give the bore a swab this evening, and also adjust the trigger a touch, as well as get the last of the packing preservative out of the nooks and crannies. It is truly unfired, so this will be interesting. I also figured I'd reset the Swaro to mechanical zero and then use the "through the bore" method of bore sighting. That generally gets me within a few inches of POA at 100 yards.

If I'm really lucky, I might get to shoot this evening or tomorrow, but it's more likely to be Saturday till that happens.

 

[1Shot]

My 264 Win mag is a custom Shilen barreled 27 3/4" long on a Rem 700 action and the chamber is nice and tight. I am using 66.5 grs Retumbo with WW cases reformed from once fired 7mm Rem mag cases with CCI 250 primers and the 130 gr AccuBond. My COAL is 3.450 and I am 20 thousands off the lands. That is where I found my best accuracy. It is doing an average of 3350 fps. Shoots like a laser beam out to 400 yards and killed 7 deer dead in their tracks so far.

 

[killdeernow]

...To get a 60/1000 jump...

I'm glad to see you're working on this cartridge. I was curious as to why that jump? Thanks,

 

[tddeangelo]

Sorry, killdeernow, I've been delinquent in visiting forum lately.

60 thousandths is an often recommended jump I've seen for the AccuBond, although I've seen folks report them working at a range of "jumps", but they seem to fall into line in in the 0.030-0.060 range.

Update on load work:

I got up to about 3100 with RL25 and 140AB's, and groups varied from 1.5-2.5 inches. OK, no biggie, just takes some load work, BUT...uh oh. My ONE pound of RL25 is dwindling and no more can be found ANYWHERE. Ruh roh.

After searching for a while, I finally went and got an 8lb-er of RL33. This arrived late last week.

So, I whipped up some loads based on QL data. I started pretty mild, with 72.0gr and working up 1 gr increments up to 75.0gr.

By 75.0gr, the groups was a pretty even triangle at about 2-2.25", avg vel was 3144fps, and ZERO pressure problems.

Then I weighed my water case capacity and found I was still below 60k for pressures. Some more QL work, and last night I made up three batches....76.5gr (what OBT predicts for a "node"), 77.5 and 78.5. 78.5 is the end, but if it's going well at 77.5, i'll try it. If not, I'll pull the 78.5gr loads down.

QL (using my case capacity and seat depth) predicts 3171fps for 76.5gr, 3218fps for 77.5gr, and 3264fps for 78.5gr. My last range trip, QL's predictions and my chrono were less than 25fps apart for all charges I shot. I had figured I wanted to get to 3150, then look for accuracy. If I can get decent groups at those speed, I'll call it good for now. I leave on a hunting trip to South Carolina on 25 Oct., so I may not get it PERFECT, but groups at or south of 1.5MOA will do.

 

[SJB358]

I am thinking it'll start coming together as you increase charge weights. I would bet around 60-63K will have you shooting pretty consistent and may require a little seating depth work, but I wouldn't think it'll take too much extra.

 

[FOTIS]

Interesting work up with the RL33

I am also hurting bad for RL22 and 25. I have put my 264 work up on the back burner.

 

[Oldtrader3]

I never stop, I just go to the best powder that I can find with the same burning rate. You guys with RL25 can probably get close with IMR 7828 SSC for the time being?

 

[tddeangelo]

So far, 33's looking good with the 264. I see a lot more carbon fouling when I clean, but speeds are good, and I think accuracy is going to start showing up here shortly. Getting 3200fps for a 140AB should be doable, and I hope to shrink it under 1.5" at 100 here quickly. If I can shoot today (limited time available), I'll have run through the range of charges I wanted to do, then it'll be on to seat depth.

I'll hunt the rifle if I can see 1.5" or better with speeds over 3150fps. I would bet I can get there.

Also, the 35 Whelen is due home tomorrow, at long last. After much trial and tribulation, I will hopefully shoot that one for the first time this coming weekend.

 

[FOTIS]

I never stop, I just go to the best powder that I can find with the same burning rate. You guys with RL25 can probably get close with IMR 7828 SSC for the time being?

Does not matter to me. None to be had around here either.

 

[Kodiak]

In the old Westerner I sold a while back, the 125 gr. PT was seated over IMR7828. I also ended up using the Rem. 9 1/2 Mag. primer, jumping 0.040, went into 3/4" @ 100 yds. Fast is what it was, 3250FPS. Just something else to think about :lol: !

 

[SJB358]

In the old Westerner I sold a while back, the 125 gr. PT was seated over IMR7828. I also ended up using the Rem. 9 1/2 Mag. primer, jumping 0.040, went into 3/4" @ 100 yds. Fast is what it was, 3250FPS. Just something else to think about :lol: !

That's one of the loads I may try in mine one of these days. I think that 125 PT is a cool bullet too.

Does not matter to me. None to be had around here either.

Fotis, Powder Valley and a few others have consistently had IMR7828 and Norma MRP throughout this shortage.. Might be worth giving them a whirl. Seemed to me, 7828 was so close to RL22 in most of my stuff. I was thinking about giving it a shot since it was so available, all the time.

 

[tddeangelo]

That's a good load right there.

I may be able to equal those speeds with a 140AB, though. The question will be whether or not I get it to shoot bug holes or not. I don't know that I will do so BEFORE my hunt (which is fast approaching), but after I'm back and can refine the load a bit, maybe.

Also, the rifle is a little over 40 rounds down the tube, bought NIB, so the barrel still needs to settle in yet a bit, too.

My Whelen arrives tomorrow, too, so I'll be reloading and shooting like a mad man here soon!

And Fotis, I got my '33 at Powder Valley, as well. About a week from when I "pushed the button" to a box on my doorstep.

 

[FOTIS]

Will try Scott!

 

[tddeangelo]

Shot two more groups tonight. 76.5 gr gave me about what the other charges did, 2-2.5". Avg speed of 3233fps, though. Nice...

77.5gr gave me comfortably under 2", avg speed of 3286fps. Holy cow!

Only pressure signs were the third shot in each string gave a slight ejector mark. I think, after talking with Scotty, that may be due to not being able to cool between each shot, and the chamber was probably pretty hot. I think I want to shoot 77.5 again, giving it a good cool-down between each. No sticky bolt issues that I perceived.

The other interesting piece is that the chrono told me that 76.5 gave me a spread of only 8fps, BUT....the chrono read two of the three shots identically (1st and 3rd shots in the string). That seems fishy to me. 77.5 gave a spread of 41fps, with the fastest being 3308!

I'm thinking, after talking with Scotty, to maybe drop back to 76.5 and run a seat depth profile? Looking at QuickLoad data, to get 3286, that pressure has to be juuuuuuuuuuuuust under 65k. That seems like it's getting to being pretty warm?

 

[HTDUCK]

The other interesting piece is that the chrono told me that 76.5 gave me a spread of only 8fps, BUT....the chrono read two of the three shots identically (1st and 3rd shots in the string). That seems fishy to me. 77.5 gave a spread of 41fps, with the fastest being 3308!

I'm thinking, after talking with Scotty, to maybe drop back to 76.5 and run a seat depth profile? Looking at QuickLoad data, to get 3286, that pressure has to be juuuuuuuuuuuuust under 65k. That seems like it's getting to being pretty warm?

Tom,

The chrono reading of an ES of 8 doesn't surprise me.
I'm running WC872 a military ball powder in my 264 with 130ABs.
Last five shot string through a chrono I had an ES of 9.

When I had my rifle chambered I had the throat cut long in it to start with.
I have found that the hotter I pushed it the better it shot.
Like your though I had to get around 60 rounds through it to get the barrel broken in.

You're headed in the right direction.
Keep us posted.

Howard

 

[FOTIS]

I just got to thinking! I do have retumbo!

HM.......

Cartridge : .264 Win. Mag.
Bullet : .264, 140, Nosler AccuBond
Useable Case Capaci: 75.760 grain H2O = 4.919 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.340 inch = 84.84 mm
Barrel Length : 26.0 inch = 660.4 mm
Powder : Hodgdon Retumbo

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 2.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms

-20.0 83 58.40 2565 2045 31218 12070 97.3 1.714
-18.0 85 59.86 2632 2154 33450 12382 98.2 1.670
-16.0 87 61.32 2699 2265 35848 12660 99.0 1.628
-14.0 89 62.78 2766 2379 38426 12901 99.5 1.578
-12.0 91 64.24 2833 2494 41201 13102 99.9 1.526
-10.0 94 65.70 2898 2612 44190 13261 100.0 1.476
-08.0 96 67.16 2963 2730 47412 13394 100.0 1.428
-06.0 98 68.62 3027 2849 50887 13522 100.0 1.382
-04.0 100 70.08 3091 2970 54637 13646 100.0 1.338
-02.0 102 71.54 3153 3091 58693 13766 100.0 1.295 ! Near Maximum !
+00.0 104 73.00 3215 3214 63080 13881 100.0 1.254 ! Near Maximum !
+02.0 106 74.46 3277 3338 67833 13991 100.0 1.214 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+04.0 108 75.92 3338 3464 72947 14097 100.0 1.176 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+06.0 110 77.38 3399 3591 78451 14197 100.0 1.139 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+08.0 112 78.84 3459 3720 84388 14292 100.0 1.104 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+10.0 114 80.30 3519 3850 90801 14381 100.0 1.070 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by ± 5% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 5% relative to nominal value:
+Ba 104 73.00 3282 3349 70691 13615 100.0 1.199 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 5% relative to nominal value:
-Ba 104 73.00 3132 3050 55954 14203 100.0 1.317 ! Near Maximum !

 

[tddeangelo]

I have some of that, too, but RL33 looks better for the time being. I would have gone the Retumbo route, though, were it not for RL33!