Trying the 150 E-tip from a 280AI

[geo]

I would like to hear any suggestions or opinions you might have. I’m shooting 150gr E-tips from a 280AI, Remington brass, Fed 215M primer and 57.5 gr of RL22. The outside temperature was about 74F.
With the bullet seated .100 off the lands I see some flattening and cratering of the primer. The group measured .641.
At .075 off the lands I see a little flattening of the primer with no cratering but the group opened up to .860
And at .050 off the lands I grouped .964 with no pressure signs.
57.5 is the minimum charge that the Nosler manual list. Would you stick with that charge and .100 off the lands? Or reduce the charge and seat the bullet deeper to see if accuracy improves and pressure sign go away. Or is there any other change that you would make.
The worst part of shooting and reloading is you always think you can do better with one more change to the recipe. Thanks in advance for your thoughts.

George

 

[SJB358]

George, do you have a chronograph? Seems like that would be the best way to assist with gauging your loads further. I get slight cratering and slightly flattened primers out of about every load I shoot out of my 270WSM. This has included about every factory round also. I don't necessarily think you are running super hot, but a chrono would be a good place to start to look and see where you are at. Scotty

 

[geo]

Thanks Scotty, yes I do have a chronograph but I never had any luck getting it to work. I'll give it another try on my next trip to the range.

George

 

[onesonek]

Are you neck or FL sizing George?.
To a point I agree with Scotty,,,,,if you can check your velocity against the manual. But then it depends so much on how that AI chamber was cut.
A tight chamber can raise pressure's at starting loads. But what you got going on sounds alil more the opposite to me. First off, Fed. primmers tend to be a tad softer than most other mfg's. But still you are seeing changes, so.
To me is sounds like to got a slightly long chamber creating a tad bit of excessive headspace, but not enough to affect firing with the softer Fed primers.
It is seemingly normal for monoliths like the E-tip to be seated off the lands as you are. But on the deepest at .100" , and if you have a bit of excessive headspace, you get more bolt thrust once the bullet engages the lands.. If you are not neck or partial sizing, try it with your .100" seating depth and see what happens. Then too, I have found with my AI's it also helps to keep the chamber free of any oil or solvents. I always wipe the chamber out with a degreaser or alcohol before shooting. Actually I do that with all chambers,,,,just helps the brass grip better to reduce bolt thrust.
In essence, you are getting slightly more pressure spikes, the further off the lands,,,,headspace is the only thing I can think of that would cause the visual difference in the primers you are describing. Just my thoughts anyhow.

Dave

 

[SJB358]

Dave, that is good to know about using alcohol to swab out your chambers and such. Makes alot of sense and pretty easy to do. I was always just using a bore snake to clean the last bit of any liquid out of the rifle before firing. Scotty

 

[onesonek]

Dave, that is good to know about using alcohol to swab out your chambers and such. Makes alot of sense and pretty easy to do. I was always just using a bore snake to clean the last bit of any liquid out of the rifle before firing. Scotty

It does help Scotty,,,,then after a shooting session, I just use a lightly oiled .410 shotgun mop to coat the chamber, as I don't do a full cleaning untill accuracy falls off. Or during hunting specially with high humidity situations, I do the same at night, but degrease again before heading out.
I also wipe the loaded rounds to remve any sizing lube.

Dave

 

[geo]

Dave the brass is fire formed then neck sized. I have to confess that I have not wiped out the chamber before shooting. I'll make that a habit for now on.

George

 

[JD338]

geo,

I tested the 7mm 150 gr E-Tip in my 280 AI with excellent results.

http://noslerreloading.com/phpBB2/viewt ... =150++etip

JD338

 

[30-338]

Geo, If I remember right we both posted something about R-17 in the 280AI. I was trying to find loading data and you posted some pretty nice target with R-17 and 150gr E-Tip.

Since you been firing that rifle for some time assuming it's the same rifle have you had any problems with other loads? I won't think a Cooper have any headspace problems.

Sinclair sell chamber and lug cleaning kit and I think midway handles their own label one. I take a bore mop and clean my chamber.

I haven't shot any E-Tips in my 280AI but have shot them in my 30 cal rifles. I guess I've been lucky in that I use the same seating depth as the Barnes TSX which is .050". I don't worry too much about primers as I measure case head expansion it works for me.

You had a pretty nice groups with R-17 and those E-Tip what happen to that load?

 

[geo]

Hi 30-338, yes I'm still shooting the same rifle. And it does shoot Sierra 150 and 130 bullets very well and with no issues with the primer.
I did have good results with RL 17 and the E-tip. But I thought I would stop experimenting with 2 fairly new components until other more experienced people worked with them and there was more published data available.
I saw JD338 results with the RL 22 and the E-tip so I decided to work with that load instead.
I measured the case head and the new brass measured .463 after fire forming .466 and now .467. What would be considered excessive expansion?

 

[geo]

JD338 your cartridge look very long. For my rifle with a 150 E-tip seated .100 I get a COAL of 3.293. I also think I am compressing the charge of 57.5. at this depth. Does that sound right?

George

 

[JD338]

geo,

My 280 AI is a Hart barrel with a very tight chamber and throated long. My COL for the 150 gr E-Tip is 3.418" and the bullet is .100" off the lands.

JD338

 

[onesonek]

Dave the brass is fire formed then neck sized. I have to confess that I have not wiped out the chamber before shooting. I'll make that a habit for now on.

George

Is that new brass fireformed George, and does your expander ball seem difficult or require more pressure on the up stroke?
Dave

 

[geo]

I am starting with new Remington 280 brass. I fire formed it in my rifle then trimmed, neck sized and reloaded once.
I can’t say that I noticed if the expander was difficult to pull thru the neck. But I did notice a little resistance from my seating die when lifting the handle after seating the bullet.
I just ran a piece of brass into my seating die without a bullet and I noticed the same resistance when raising the handle. I do not feel any resistance when I did the same with an unused piece of brass. I am using a Redding competition seating die. It looks to me that the brass is tight just in front of the head.
Earlier I wrote that my case head expansion was about .004 more after fire forming. Should I full length resize or toss this brass and start over?

George

 

[30-338]

Hi 30-338, yes I'm still shooting the same rifle. And it does shoot Sierra 150 and 130 bullets very well and with no issues with the primer.
I did have good results with RL 17 and the E-tip. But I thought I would stop experimenting with 2 fairly new components until other more experienced people worked with them and there was more published data available.
I saw JD338 results with the RL 22 and the E-tip so I decided to work with that load instead.
I measured the case head and the new brass measured .463 after fire forming .466 and now .467. What would be considered excessive expansion?

Geo, I got mine later part of May and I used a 27" long Lilja barrel so I may have some advantages in velocity etc and I had it throated out to 3.450". I settled on R-17 with 160gr bullet right now it's shooting pretty good hoping to get it ready for elk hunting maybe.

I haven't had much luck with R-22 so wasn't on my list to try. I picked up a Rem 280 and I shot that alittle with R-17 before I got the 280AI. Since I have good amt of IMR-7828 and IMR-7828SSC I got some good groups/velocity but I like the load density better with R-17.

There pro's and con's on CHE best if you did a search and they have a # that pretty standard.

Well good luck.

 

[JD338]

30-338

The best performing powder I have found for my 280 AI with 140 gr and 160 gr bullets is RL 22 with Federal GM215M magnum primers.
My gunsmith advised me to switch to the magnum primer and my groups went from great to exceptional.

JD338

 

[30-338]

30-338

The best performing powder I have found for my 280 AI with 140 gr and 160 gr bullets is RL 22 with Federal GM215M magnum primers.
My gunsmith advised me to switch to the magnum primer and my groups went from great to exceptional.

JD338

JD338, I'm using 215M and you have some great groups with your 280AI using R-22. I build this rifle to shoot 160gr plus bullets and I might try some Berger hunting VLD 180gr be a good winter time project for me.

In my wifes 280AI with the Kreiger barrel I'm loading H-4831sc with 150gr TSX and she taken animals out to 300yds plus with that rifle using Fed 210M with Nolser brass.

When I build the 30-280AI I tried R-22 then in acouple other rifles and I think I'm jinx with that powder so it's been off my list to try. One of the powder I'm going to try is IMR-4007SSC I've shot alittle of it in the 30-06/270/243AI.

 

[onesonek]

I am starting with new Remington 280 brass. I fire formed it in my rifle then trimmed, neck sized and reloaded once.
I can’t say that I noticed if the expander was difficult to pull thru the neck. But I did notice a little resistance from my seating die when lifting the handle after seating the bullet.
I just ran a piece of brass into my seating die without a bullet and I noticed the same resistance when raising the handle. I do not feel any resistance when I did the same with an unused piece of brass. I am using a Redding competition seating die. It looks to me that the brass is tight just in front of the head.
Earlier I wrote that my case head expansion was about .004 more after fire forming. Should I full length resize or toss this brass and start over?

George

Ok,,the new brass eliminates my thoughts of the sometimes common "donut" that can form on AI's after multiple firings, requiring a neck reamer. If the donut is not reamed, the expander ball can set the shoulder back a tad. So I'm still at a loss as to why you experiencing what you are at a starting charge weight. Unless of course, your chamber is really close or tight in tolerence's.

Thinking,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Dave

 

[geo]

The reason I am trying the Remington 280 brass is because the Nosler 280AI brass is very tight in my chamber. And I saw JD338 was having very good results with the Remington also.
Is it possible that I had high pressure when fire forming the brass and did not recognize it. And now the primer pockets are loose. Would this cause the primer to look the way they do.


George

 

[onesonek]

Yes George, loose primer pockets on first firing is a good indication of pressures getting excessive. Back off 2-3 grs.. I normally use medium speed powders listed for the parent cartridge, and the started load listed for fireforming.
I too have good luck with Rem. brass over the years.

Dave