Tweaking QuickLoad

[Wyo7200]

I'm a fairly intermediate level user/ understander of QuickLoad and wanted to ask those who have used it and have learned its intricacies for any tips on getting more accurate estimations. I've measured all my components and tweaked the case capacity, case length, etc. Is there any input for the differences in primer brisance? It's been surprisingly accurate with velocities when compared to the chronograph as is- within 50-10 fps. Just wanted to see how other people tweak it.

 

[SJB358]

I've not tweaked any measurement beyond what you've done. I guess I'm fairly happy with what I see most of the time.

I'd like to hear about anything you come up with though.

 

[kraky]

If the velocity on the chrono is pretty close I also play w/case length or volume. In cases like my tikkas or weatherby rifles that have freebore I don't mind doing that and its a valid way of making the compensation. But some times you run into a powder that inexplainably is quite mild compared to quickload. Its times like that when I'd like to come up w/another way of tweaking the program. I've seen where people talk about modifying the burn rates of the powder. That's going beyond what I like to do!

 

[RiverRider]

I'm not keen on altering the powder characteristic parameters. I generally take the velocity of the highest safe pressure QL result and make sure I don't push velocities beyond that. I believe that if there's any one thing we can observe to estimate pressure, other than pressure measurements which require equipment most of us do not have, it is velocity.

I have edited the bullet directory so that I don't have to wade through a hundred different bullet manufacturers in the drop-down list when I'll only ever use ten to twenty of them at the most. I have also edited the powder file to eliminate all the European powders so that they don't clutter up results.

 

[Wyo7200]

Cool. Yeah, I have no idea how I'd even measure the powder lot to change the burn rate. I'll leave that variable to the 3,5,or 10% presets.

I think the best tweak I did so far was to separate all the powders from European, pistol powders and rifle powders. Sorting through all the powders in the propellant table results trying to find one was getting old!

Has anyone messed with changing the shot start pressure? I'm wondering if decreasing or increasing it can emulate using different primers.

 

[Ridgerunner665]

Shot start pressure is not the way to compensate for primers...

The only way QuickLoad can emulate different primers is through changing the powder burn characteristics...you may or may not like doing that, but it is what it is...and that's the only way to do it.

That is the whole beauty of QuickLoad...the fact that it is so very "adjustable"...a person could build their own powder profile...say for example SuperFormance...I have done this, but its probably only useful in my particular rifle, for that particular batch of powder...

The disclaimer is: Do this VERY carefully...and never forget its your fingers and eyeballs on the line....


There is nothing in QuickLoad that I haven't tweaked....if for no other reason than just to see what it did (learning)...just don't permanently edit the powder profiles (hard to do by accident)...

Moving the burn rate one way or the other is no big deal...and is one of the finest features of the program...that's what sets it apart from just another loading manual, it can be matched to batches of powder, particular rounds, particular rifles, etc.

Its not a simple, one click process...but it opens up a whole nuther level of load development possibilities.

 

[dchamp]

Here is something I have read and used. I admit that I don't fully get it, I'm not that smart, but I get the basics of it, I think. It has to do with barrel exit time of the bullet and adjusting the Ba or burn rate factor in QL to match the muzzle velocity you're getting. This can be accomplished by adjusting the load to match the Optimal Barrel Time.

Here is a link to the website that explains everything about it.

http://the-long-family.com/optimal%20barrel%20time.htm

Scroll down to the White Paper that explains how to tweak Quick Load it's a interesting read.

 

[Ridgerunner665]

I'm a little skeptical of going into too much detail...don't want to be responsible for somebody hurting themselves or their rifle...but don't be afraid to move things around in QuickLoad...to "not" experiment with it (carefully) is to waste its true potential.

 

[Wyo7200]

Thanks Ridgerunner. I'll need to read up on creating a powder profile and the prescribed way to adjust burn rate. I picked up several pounds of superformance for the 22-250 and was bummed that QL didn't have it listed.

Thanks for the link dc, I'll have to read it tomorrow. I tried to estimate my optimal barrel time once using two different loads that were both accurate in the rifle. Didn't work the way I expected and I rested on it being the difference of explosion times acting differently on the barrels harmonics- if that makes sense.


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[Wyo7200]

I took some time one night and created a profile for each of my rifles. Seemed to make the estimates more accurate. Just wish they's make it easier to change the rifle profiles without having to 'reload' the current cartridge info. Learning curve... rifle first, load second.

Played with the burn rates a bit, but changing the rifle's made the estimates to be within 20-50 fps of actual data. Not bad and close enough for me

I've been exploring QuickTarget more. Jeez there's tons of stuff. Not sure about the miller stability calc though. I have a couple of bullets that are over 3. I think the berger twist rate calc is more accurate. The sight-in-range to get the best point blank range suggestion is pretty neat.

 

[kraky]

Great thread...played w/the powder burn rate factor a little....ez and harmless.
Then I compared some of my successful loads to the guys "node chart"....some came out close.
Not sure I buy a universal node chart w/all the differences in rifles....but I'm willing to keep watching and pondering!
Always fun to check out a few new tricks!

 

[Wyo7200]

Son-of-a gun...

I was running a bunch of loads for my brother and things were not looking good at all in QL. PSI's of over 120k were being returned. Did a little search on the interwebz and learned about the "Weighing Factor" field in QL. Sure enough, QL had 300 RUM and 7 RUM listed as .75- Typical cases and not .33 Overbore and .204 Ruger at .6- between cylindrical case and typical case. Changed that little nugget and the estimates are back down to reasonable pressures and explain why hes not getting good accuracy. Probably will save my brother from re-barreling a rifle.

This weighting field gave me good insight into the 22-250 load and 25-06 I'm re-working. I had loaded a few at 38.1 and a set at 38.2 (based off QL and OBT and the estimated velocity) for testing. turns out I was generous on the velocity estimate and the 38.2 group shot terrible but the 38.1 shot well, but didn't match the node according to QL. It estimated 38.4 will put me on it.

So tonight, after I discovered the weighting factor, I noticed QL automatically puts .5 in the field for 22-250. I changed the .5 for typical bottle neck to .33 for overbore, and 38gr lands smack on a node. So I'm off to try some 38gr loads.

My RCBS bullet puller collet is the most used tool on my bench...

 

[SJB358]

Let us know how you make out. Very interested in the data you gather.

 

[Wyo7200]

It was windy today, but warm enough to gather some velocity information. I also loaded a few cartridges 22-250's with 40gr R17- which would have been the next node under my threshold for too much PSI. QL estimated that I could get there and ok. It was right, but there were slight high pressure signs on the brass that told me I wouldn't have any room for temperature swings. Went with 38.1gr. The target overlays with a previous target made at a 50 degree colder difference to create a nice 5-6 shot hole, minus the cold / cleaner about 3/4" low. I think that is pretty good for a 60 grainer through a 1/12 twist @3447 fps.

Also documented POI shifts while using a magnetospeed chrono. Ill post pics in the magnetospeed thread. To me, its obvious that thinner profile barrels have more shifting while using the chrono than heavier barrels.

 

[SJB358]

Wow! That is hammering a 60 grain PT..

Seems like your getting close to what your looking for.

 

[Partisan]

I just ordered QuickLoad. In the mean time I got busy and started checking water capacity in some cases. I have weighed cases previously but never did the water comparison. Out of 3 different 7mm RM makes the capacities ranked about as I expected based on the difference in dry weight and my measured velocities with each. All of the cases though are over the nominal standard which I also expected due to the actual velocities.
I have been running the demo version and reading the manual so I have a basic understanding of how the program works. Not every function though is available in the demo and the documentation is a bit fuzzy on some things.

Do I understand correctly that a new cartridge case file can be created for different brands of the same caliber and saved? Thus you don't have to update the standard file each time you start the program or switch between brands.

The software looks like it's going to provide hours of Fun on these long Winter evenings... ;-)

 

[Wyo7200]

Rock on- you'll spend a lot of time in QL. You can save your cartridges, powders, guns, and bullets. I have a load saved for every estimate I do for easy retrieval and documentation purposes. I'd recommend creating a gun profile for each of your rifles as Ina round subtle differences in estimates between the QL gun test file and my actual caliber. I also removed all the European powders that I'll never use in my powder profile and separated pistol from rifle. Makes things cleaner.