Use Enough Gun

[Vince]

As I sit this morning in South Africa I’m recalling last night’s conversation about bullets and guns with the PH’s here.

Like America there’s two schools of thought. Put the bullet in the right place and any animal is going down. The other school of thought is to use enough gun.

The general consensus among the PH’s is that African animals are tougher, and harder to kill, than American game animals. I view it a little differently.

I hate to say it but a lot of Americans are WIMPS. We’ve been led to believe that the 30-06 has massive recoil. That was the issued cartridge in WWII. If you take someone that has never fired a rifle and put a 30-06 in their hands they are going to think the recoil is tremendous.

If on the other hand you start them off with something smaller and work up through the calibers then shoot something bigger than what they decide is their preferred cartridge they may find that the recoil isn’t so bad.

Stock fit is also critical. I’ve had a smaller calibers beat me up worse than my .338 Win Mag due to a poorly fitted stock. You competition shotgun shooters will know what I’m talking about.

While something can’t be deader than dead you either need to wait for the right position of the target, easier to do if you have a three month hunting season versus a week of hunting, or pass on shooting. My Warthog is a classic example of that. It was quartering away. I drove the bullet from the flank to the offside shoulder. Would a smaller cartridge be capable? I was using the Outfitter’s .300 Win Mag. My one and done rifle for North America is a .338 Win Mag.

Larger calibers offer bigger holes which leads to more blood loss which leads to exsanguination.

Vince

 

[JD338]

I came to the conclusion many years ago that there’s no replacement for displacement. Many fellas think that the 338 RUM is overkill but it just works and it works beautifully. Most animals just drop in a heap. Of course bullet placement is everything. Knowing your target animals anatomy AND putting the proper game bullet through the vitals is king.

JD338

 

[8mm Enthusiast]

There's differing philosophies as you pointed out. Just depends on the situation. Many use surgical well placed shots with small calibers while others swear by large frontal diameter. It all comes down to judgement at the end of the day for whatever your particular situation is that you are facing. Me personally, I think that at the appropriate ranges with appropriate calibers and a safe backstop, upper spine/neck shots need to be explored as a way to instantly drop big game with minimal meat damage. That being said, there's nothing wrong with the classic vital organ shot.

 

[highoctane]

For the most part, Ive always believed that horse power is not a replacement for poor bullet placement. Just because one may use a 429 super moose smasher does not mean that you can place a bullet somewhere between the nose and the coccyx and be ok.

 

[Vince]

There's differing philosophies as you pointed out. Just depends on the situation. Many use surgical well placed shots with small calibers while others swear by large frontal diameter. It all comes down to judgement at the end of the day for whatever your particular situation is that you are facing. Me personally, I think that at the appropriate ranges with appropriate calibers and a safe backstop, upper spine/neck shots need to be explored as a way to instantly drop big game with minimal meat damage. That being said, there's nothing wrong with the classic vital organ shot.

Why not combine the two and use surgical placement of a big bullet?

 

[Vince]

For the most part, Ive always believed that horse power is not a replacement for poor bullet placement. Just because one may use a 429 super moose smasher does not mean that you can place a bullet somewhere between the nose and the coccyx and be ok.

I believe you are correct.
It takes proper bullet placement but bigger bullets properly placed beats a small bullet properly placed.

 

[xphunter]

I am going to hunt plains game again in SA this summer Lord willing.
Where I hunt, their minimum caliber is .264
I am taking a 6.5-284 and a 7mm SAUM (Both are bolt action single-shot handguns)
A good friend of mine Darrell Holland, has hunted Africa or South Africa every year for about the last 15 years.
For quite a few years he hunted with a 7mm-08.
From teaching other in shooting courses, I have found that everyone is different.
A lot of folks have been shooting large cartridges, and because of recoil their fundamentals are not good.
They like their magnums, but their shooting shows they don't.
Call them wimps or whatever, but I try to get someone into something they can consistently shoot good with

 

[salmonchaser]

Discipline, training, practice regardless of cartridge or caliber become the three legged stool of the experienced hunter shooting effectively. The experienced hunter considers the shot going through the animal, the inexperienced hunter shoots at the surface he is given. What appears to be a perfectly broadside shot rarely is, how well you account for that discrepancy can greatly affect the outcome. 5 or 10 degrees off line, if you will, changes what that bullet hits going through. Make it 30 degrees off line, that could have dramatic results. The variable, the animal itself can really mess things up. the longer the shot the more likely this can occur. The perfectly aligned shot is less so when the animal moves during time of flight.
I’m not too worried about deer and antelope, Impala, bushbuck, blessbuck. A 257 Roberts 6.5 creedmore or anything similar will certainly get the job done under any reasonable shot a guy would take. These same cartridges will kill elk size critters as well but you need to be a little more critical of the circumstances. (discipline). I took a quarter away shot on a very large Heartabeast last week. On reflection I didn’t account for the wind when I aligned the shot. My error in judgement would have been disastrous with less gun than the 300 HH. My shot hit further back than the last rib but still managed to pound through the rumen and into the lung. When he emerged on the far hill he was clearly hurt bad but still on his feet and very nearly perfectly broadside. I had the wind call correct that time and the 400 yard finisher was largely academic. I’ve killed a lot of elk and deer, I’m up to 20 some species of african game, Shot Moose, sheep and bears. Occasionally I’ve made a poor shot. I’ll hunt smaller stuff with a 257 roberts class cartridge with no reservations. Give me something bigger than a good Mule deer I’ll step up to match the game. 8 of the 10 animals I shot last week were stone dead, one was hit well but managed to regain his feet, so took a follower and one, as described, was a poor shot. I’m not perfect so I’ll take an edge when I can.

 

[salmonchaser]

I am going to hunt plains game again in SA this summer Lord willing.
Where I hunt, their minimum caliber is .264
I am taking a 6.5-284 and a 7mm SAUM (Both are bolt action single-shot handguns)
A good friend of mine Darrell Holland, has hunted Africa or South Africa every year for about the last 15 years.
For quite a few years he hunted with a 7mm-08.
From teaching other in shooting courses, I have found that everyone is different.
A lot of folks have been shooting large cartridges, and because of recoil their fundamentals are not good.
They like their magnums, but their shooting shows they don't.
Call them wimps or whatever, but I try to get someone into something they can consistently shoot good with

I asked my PH about the 7x57. Fantastic he said. Great cartridge. He thought I should bring my 7x57 and 375 next time. Probably will. I think that means I’ll be hunting Buffaloe and some plains game.

 

[xphunter]

@salmonchaser ,
I'm using the 160 grain LRX in my 7mm SAUM
I plan to use the 140 grain AB (Still doing load development) in my 6.5-284.

Sounds like your trip is going to be FUN!

 

[highoctane]

Why not combine the two and use surgical placement of a big bullet?

Im not sure what you deem "big bullet" because that term is certainly debatable but If "you" are capable of utilizing big bullets then yes, I would say go for it.

However, everyone is not able to withstand what bigger calibers and bullets bring to the table.

 

[bdbrown66]

As I sit this morning in South Africa I’m recalling last night’s conversation about bullets and guns with the PH’s here.

Like America there’s two schools of thought. Put the bullet in the right place and any animal is going down. The other school of thought is to use enough gun.

The general consensus among the PH’s is that African animals are tougher, and harder to kill, than American game animals. I view it a little differently.

I hate to say it but a lot of Americans are WIMPS. We’ve been led to believe that the 30-06 has massive recoil. That was the issued cartridge in WWII. If you take someone that has never fired a rifle and put a 30-06 in their hands they are going to think the recoil is tremendous.

If on the other hand you start them off with something smaller and work up through the calibers then shoot something bigger than what they decide is their preferred cartridge they may find that the recoil isn’t so bad.

Stock fit is also critical. I’ve had a smaller calibers beat me up worse than my .338 Win Mag due to a poorly fitted stock. You competition shotgun shooters will know what I’m talking about.

While something can’t be deader than dead you either need to wait for the right position of the target, easier to do if you have a three month hunting season versus a week of hunting, or pass on shooting. My Warthog is a classic example of that. It was quartering away. I drove the bullet from the flank to the offside shoulder. Would a smaller cartridge be capable? I was using the Outfitter’s .300 Win Mag. My one and done rifle for North America is a .338 Win Mag.

Larger calibers offer bigger holes which leads to more blood loss which leads to exsanguination.

Vince

Karamojo Bell would like a word.

 

[RememberBaker]

I definitely don’t care for recoil. I don’t find a 30-06 at all objectionable but 10 shots from a 348 Winchester with 200 grain bullets from a bench was plenty for me. I have a 9x57 Mauser that is very enjoyable to shoot, but that’s a big bullet slow. I also have a 30 Newton and 300 H&H and those are probably as much as I’d care to shoot.
I don’t enjoy shooting them very much.