was this call just by CO

[Guest]

Yeah Elkman,
That is good input too. Again we do not have all the facts given in this situation. My call was the Outfitter/Guide with information submitted. Bottom line we have to control our emotions in all the excitement. Good rule to live by !!!

 

[Elkman]

This kind of went like the example boolit gave us.

In the fall of 63 my dad and I were an a open hillside watching a small group of elk on the adjacent hillside looking for a bull. I had the bino's he had the rifle. As I was looking through the binos I spotted a small bull in the timber just below the others. I pointed it out to dad whom got his rifle on the elk but could not seee the horns. He asked me if I was sure and I said positive that he was broadside standing next to a certain tree. He OK and killed a nice cow that I had not even seen. He punched his tag, we dressed her out, packed her up to the ridgeline the next day and went home. I don't remember if I got to hunt any more that year or not. Some would have left her, he would not. He did not turn himself in but we took her and utilized the meat. I think that event is "one" of those that make me carefull even to this day!!!!!

 

[brianwyo]

I agree with Elkman. He who pulls the trigger is responsible. I would let the guide know how disappointed i was with his advice and why I didnt give him a tip. Pay the fine and chalk it up to a learning experiance. Do the wrong thing and karma will get you.

 

[FOTIS]

Guide is at fault, piss poor job of coaching the client. Should have been doing a better job of spotting with good binoculars and would have seen the response of the first deer fired upon and would have known the deer was down. This hunter was set up from the start. The Guide should be fired by the Outfitter if an employee. An ethical Outfitter should buck up and pay the fine, back his client. Last resort pay the cost of the fine, deduct it from any tip or balance due at end of the hunt.

+1.....

Has almost happened to me but I never shot at #2. I rather lose one than be in your shoes.

Your case the outfitter is at fault. He gave you instructions.

 

[SJB358]

I think they did the right thing by calling the CO and reporting it. Guides have a hard job and if they get too excited and give bad directions, it is on them. I can't imagine having to control an excited hunter, I know how amped I get and we all get tunnel vision when the fever sets it! Best advice is to keep your head on a swivel, shoot with both eyes open and observe! Scotty

 

[boolit]

Scotty,
the dude said the first deer dropped and then got up. Best thing to be done would to be to track em', no?

 

[SJB358]

I am with you Boolit, and tracking the first deer sounds like the exact right thing to do, but getting arm chair quarterbacked from the internet isn't really fair to any party involved. The guys on the ground made a call. Saying what we would do, and would have done, is kinda a moot point. I have knocked elk over before only to have them get back up. I am certainly not going to sit here and say that I would not take a follow up before I went over to the spot I shot him and figured out the situation. I know it might sound bad, but if the hunter was staying on his animal and practiced good shot follow up, he would have had the presence to say he didn't need to shoot again. I don't like blaming guides too much, unless they are looking through your scope and telling you what is going on, you are the bloke that squeezes the trigger and takes accountability for your actions. Just my thoughts on it. I know I am probably off from some, but this applies to me in more ways than just hunting also.

 

[boolit]

I am with you Boolit, and tracking the first deer sounds like the exact right thing to do, but getting arm chair quarterbacked from the internet isn't really fair to any party involved. The guys on the ground made a call. Saying what we would do, and would have done, is kinda a moot point. I have knocked elk over before only to have them get back up. I am certainly not going to sit here and say that I would not take a follow up before I went over to the spot I shot him and figured out the situation. I know it might sound bad, but

if the hunter was staying on his animal

and practiced good shot follow up, he would have had the presence to say he didn't need to shoot again. I don't like blaming guides too much, unless they are looking through your scope and telling you what is going on, you are the bloke that squeezes the trigger and takes accountability for your actions. Just my thoughts on it. I know I am probably off from some, but this applies to me in more ways than just hunting also.

staying on the animal ESPECIALLY when there's one that looks the same? A guide takes you to the animal, you don't have to shoot the one he tells you, when it's mixed in with another.

 

[SJB358]

One of my best friends is a guide in Idaho and works really hard for his hunters. To blame a guide is like blaming your children for being spoiled. Just my line of thinking. I am sure others really depend on a guide to do the work, but to me, they are just that, guides, not shooters. The shooting and anything after comes down to our ethics as hunters. Do what you know is right, and most of the time, nobody will be able to hold anything over us. Scotty

 

[longwinters]

For sure the guides job is to try to put you on the animal. But I would think most would agree that you cannot always determine a hit by an animals reaction. Both the guide and the hunter are wrong, in my book, if they continue to shoot at other animals with out looking to see what happened at the 1st shot.

I have taken advice about a shot twice from other people.....neither ended up to my liking although both animals were killed. Bottom line is I pulled the trigger and it is always easier to tell someone to do something while if it was yourself more caution might be taken.

Long

 

[DrMike]

I stand firm in my conviction that it is the finger on the trigger that bears ultimate responsibility. Whilst the guide may not have done his job well, if I was the one shooting, I have a fair knowledge of where I was aiming and hopefully, a good understanding of the capability of my rifle. Ergo, I must assume that I have made a good shot. If I am unable to call my shot, I should move closer to ensure that I make an ethical shot.

 

[SJB358]

Great point Long! Well spoken. Scotty