Why are the listed loads so far behind the posted loads in almost every other manual? The 300 Weatherby holds almost 10 grains more than the 300 Winchester Mag but according to the Nosler manual they offer no increase in performance. The Weatherby factory ammo far exceeds any of the Nosler published data. A 26" 300WBY should shoot 180 grain bullets at 3300.
Weak Weatherby loads in the Nosler manual?
- Thread starter Hired Gun
- Start date
We take about 3-5 years to produce each manual. With our loads being "conservative" we allow safe loads to be published. Our manual is checked for another 3-4 months with teams of people reading page after page.
There are too many weak actioned rifles in the world to publish higher pressures and velocities. You can thank all the lawsuits in the world for that.
A reloading guide is just that a guide. We never suggest that you go above our book loads.
You may find the loads weak, but be assured they are accurate and time tested by the good folks in our lab
There are too many weak actioned rifles in the world to publish higher pressures and velocities. You can thank all the lawsuits in the world for that.
A reloading guide is just that a guide. We never suggest that you go above our book loads.
You may find the loads weak, but be assured they are accurate and time tested by the good folks in our lab
I can understand Nosler wanting to shield itself from lawsuits, but offering a load source for sale that does not reflect 'real world' loads ESPECIALLY for modern cartridges never offered in waek actions is something of a a disservice to handloading customers.
If your manual was free, that's one thing, but you're not exactly giving it away. . :wink:
George
If your manual was free, that's one thing, but you're not exactly giving it away. . :wink:
George
- Thread starter
- #6
What I have found over the years is in the recent manuals is the top velocities are realistic, but it usually takes quite a bit more powder than what is published to reach the published speeds. Has anyone else run into this? I know about differences in chamber volumes, free bore, variations in case volumes and the effects of barrel lengths but in my 7 Mag I have had to go as much as 11 grains over the Nosler book to get up to speed or never did get up to speed before I ran out of case. BTW the loads I'm using were published in an old Speer #8 manual. Now those are some manly loads that when they say approach with caution you better respect them.
Shark Bait
Beginner
- Oct 6, 2004
- 12
- 0
Nosler is an awesome company with awesome products. However, I do agree that the relaoding data is very conservative. When doing my research for load data, I almost never consider the Nosler data as it falls way short of expectations. In this department, Nosler could take a few tips from the Barnes manual! :wink:
Greg Nolan
Handloader
- Nov 25, 2004
- 2,143
- 18
:roll: It's interesting that in many cases the velocities published as maximum varies less than 100fps between standard calibers such as 270 win. and some of the magnums in some bullet weights. The problem for me is that due to different bullet shapes in other reloading manuals it gets touchy using thier max. loads and I would hope Noslers propriatorship to it's customers would be to publish at least "close" safe maximum loads.
Well, I think you guys are being a little hard on Nosler here. I cannot find any loading data that is very much different than theirs having looked in lots of manuals.
I just spent a good deal of time looking through a BUNCH of reloading manuals and the Nosler data is right there with most of the other guys. I looked at all the Speer manuals clear back to number 3. I looked at ALL the Sierra manuals, ALL the Hornady manuals, ALL the Barnes manuals, ALL the Vihtavuorri manuls, All the Nosler manuals, and Hodgdon manuals back to number 22. (they are now on number 27). I just could not find all that much difference in any of them except for some of the very oldest versions.
It has been proposed that any good 300 WBY Mag should make 3300 fps with a 180 grain bullet. Well, somebody had better tell all these folks who write these manuals. Even those printed in the 1970's do not print any such loads.
Even the much touted Speer Number eight (which is a great manual!) does not list any load faster than 3239 fps for a 180 grain bullet in the 300 WBY Mag.
Heck, even Bob Hagel in his book Game Loads and Practical Ballistics for the American Hunter only shows about 3150 for the 180 grain bullet in the 300 WBY Mag. And that book contains some HOT loads for other calibers, let me tell you!!!!
Ken Waters in his excellant book PET LOADS does not list anything even close to 3300 fps for a 300 WBY Mag shooting 180 grain bullets.
So, I guess my point is ALL these loading manuals cannot be wrong! It is just not reasonable to expect 3300 fps from a 300 WBY Mag when shooting 180 grain bullets.
Iknow, I know, Weatherby says that they can get it with their factory ammo. And maybe they do, I don't know. The only factory Weatherby ammo I chronographed was the 150 grain and it only made about 3350fps in two different rifles tested.
But, I have chronographed about a dozen 300WBY Mag rifles. Some have made 3200 fps with 180 grain bullets using the reloads in question, but most did not.
Myself, I own a Remington 700 Classic in 300 WBY Mag that is hard pressed to make 3200 fps with 180 grain bullets. It shoots better when loaded to about 3150 fps. Do I feel that this is a problem? Heck no, there is no one reading this that could tell the difference between a rifle shooting a 180 grain bullet at 3150 fps versus one shooting the same bullet at 3300 fps. NO ONE!! And the game will never know the difference, either.
If you are getting 3300 fps with your 300 WBY Mag using 180 grain bullets, you had better be pretty gratefull or you had better get a chronograph that works.
R F
I just spent a good deal of time looking through a BUNCH of reloading manuals and the Nosler data is right there with most of the other guys. I looked at all the Speer manuals clear back to number 3. I looked at ALL the Sierra manuals, ALL the Hornady manuals, ALL the Barnes manuals, ALL the Vihtavuorri manuls, All the Nosler manuals, and Hodgdon manuals back to number 22. (they are now on number 27). I just could not find all that much difference in any of them except for some of the very oldest versions.
It has been proposed that any good 300 WBY Mag should make 3300 fps with a 180 grain bullet. Well, somebody had better tell all these folks who write these manuals. Even those printed in the 1970's do not print any such loads.
Even the much touted Speer Number eight (which is a great manual!) does not list any load faster than 3239 fps for a 180 grain bullet in the 300 WBY Mag.
Heck, even Bob Hagel in his book Game Loads and Practical Ballistics for the American Hunter only shows about 3150 for the 180 grain bullet in the 300 WBY Mag. And that book contains some HOT loads for other calibers, let me tell you!!!!
Ken Waters in his excellant book PET LOADS does not list anything even close to 3300 fps for a 300 WBY Mag shooting 180 grain bullets.
So, I guess my point is ALL these loading manuals cannot be wrong! It is just not reasonable to expect 3300 fps from a 300 WBY Mag when shooting 180 grain bullets.
Iknow, I know, Weatherby says that they can get it with their factory ammo. And maybe they do, I don't know. The only factory Weatherby ammo I chronographed was the 150 grain and it only made about 3350fps in two different rifles tested.
But, I have chronographed about a dozen 300WBY Mag rifles. Some have made 3200 fps with 180 grain bullets using the reloads in question, but most did not.
Myself, I own a Remington 700 Classic in 300 WBY Mag that is hard pressed to make 3200 fps with 180 grain bullets. It shoots better when loaded to about 3150 fps. Do I feel that this is a problem? Heck no, there is no one reading this that could tell the difference between a rifle shooting a 180 grain bullet at 3150 fps versus one shooting the same bullet at 3300 fps. NO ONE!! And the game will never know the difference, either.
If you are getting 3300 fps with your 300 WBY Mag using 180 grain bullets, you had better be pretty gratefull or you had better get a chronograph that works.
R F
longwinters
Handloader
- Oct 10, 2004
- 1,476
- 1
I have only been reloading for a couple of years now, but between my Nosler, Sierra and Speer reloading books (all new versions) Nosler seems to list hotter loads than either of the other two. I too question the velocities, and also why so many tests are done with generally longer barrels than most rifles come with. But it is by far my favorite reloading guide.
Long
Long
joecool544
Beginner
- Nov 14, 2004
- 7
- 0
Well Mr. Flowers I own three Mark V .300 Weatherbys at this time and played with several more. And have shot over four different chronographs and I can get 3300 with 180s as easy as falling down. And 3600+ with 150s. But this was done with 26” barrels. Weatherby used to claim 3300 with 180s tell they came out with the 30-378 to make it look better they lowered the speed of the .300 I have notice I can easily match Roy’s speeds that he had in his old catalogs. And I happen to have all of his offerings from .257 though .340 so I have done this for a while. But in fairness to Nosler I can see their point. I have seen two guns built for the Weatherby calibers one .257 the other a .300 and nether one can shoot factory ammo with out pressure signs like primers fallen out.
joecool544
Beginner
- Nov 14, 2004
- 7
- 0
Well Mr. Flowers I own three Mark V .300 Weatherbys at this time and played with several more. And have shot over four different chronographs and I can get 3300 with 180s as easy as falling down. And 3600+ with 150s. But this was done with 26” barrels. Weatherby used to claim 3300 with 180s tell they came out with the 30-378 to make it look better they lowered the speed of the .300 I have notice I can easily match Roy’s speeds that he had in his old catalogs. And I happen to have all of his offerings from .257 though .340 so I have done this for a while. But in fairness to Nosler I can see their point. I have seen two guns built for the Weatherby calibers one .257 the other a .300 and nether one can shoot factory ammo with out pressure signs like primers fallen out.
Well Joe, that is great, I am glad to hear it.
BUT, I have chronographed more than a dozen 300 Weatherby rifles, ranging from custom rifles built on old pre-64 Model 70 Winchesters to Remington Classics, to Weatherby Mark V's. NONE of them would make 3300 fps with 180 grain bullets. A couple would do 3250 fps, but that was it without undue pressure signs.
Probably the fastest of the bunch is my dad's pre-64 Model 70 Winchester which was a 300H&H and was reamed out. It has a 26 inch barrel and will make 3250 with 180's with no problem. My dad routinely shoots 150's at better than 3500 fps.
So if you are getting 3300 fps with 180's that is great, more power to you. But there has to be a reason that in all my reloading manuals (and that is a colletction of about 25 or 30 books) NONE of them suggest you can get that speed out of a 300 WBY Mag.
I realize that there are "fast" and "slow" barrels. I own a Remington 700 Classic in 7mm WBY Mag that gives velocities that are rather amazing. It will easily shoot 160's at 3200 fps any day of the week. It is not supposed to go that fast, but it does. I used to own a plain Jane Remington 700 BDL chambered for 300 Winchester Mag that would make better than 3200 fps with 180's and top 3500 fps with 150's NO PROBLEM! Like a dumb shit, I sold it, wish to hell I hadn't. But then, I had a friend who owned a Browning A-Bolt in 7mm Rem Mag that would barely make 2900 fps with 160 grain bullets, period.
Anyway, I guess my point is that most all the manuals that have been published suggest that 3300 fps with a 180 grain bullet in a 300 WBY Mag is pretty much out of reach.
Again, if you are getting that, great! That is way cool. I just have not seen it.
R F
BUT, I have chronographed more than a dozen 300 Weatherby rifles, ranging from custom rifles built on old pre-64 Model 70 Winchesters to Remington Classics, to Weatherby Mark V's. NONE of them would make 3300 fps with 180 grain bullets. A couple would do 3250 fps, but that was it without undue pressure signs.
Probably the fastest of the bunch is my dad's pre-64 Model 70 Winchester which was a 300H&H and was reamed out. It has a 26 inch barrel and will make 3250 with 180's with no problem. My dad routinely shoots 150's at better than 3500 fps.
So if you are getting 3300 fps with 180's that is great, more power to you. But there has to be a reason that in all my reloading manuals (and that is a colletction of about 25 or 30 books) NONE of them suggest you can get that speed out of a 300 WBY Mag.
I realize that there are "fast" and "slow" barrels. I own a Remington 700 Classic in 7mm WBY Mag that gives velocities that are rather amazing. It will easily shoot 160's at 3200 fps any day of the week. It is not supposed to go that fast, but it does. I used to own a plain Jane Remington 700 BDL chambered for 300 Winchester Mag that would make better than 3200 fps with 180's and top 3500 fps with 150's NO PROBLEM! Like a dumb shit, I sold it, wish to hell I hadn't. But then, I had a friend who owned a Browning A-Bolt in 7mm Rem Mag that would barely make 2900 fps with 160 grain bullets, period.
Anyway, I guess my point is that most all the manuals that have been published suggest that 3300 fps with a 180 grain bullet in a 300 WBY Mag is pretty much out of reach.
Again, if you are getting that, great! That is way cool. I just have not seen it.
R F
- Oct 30, 2004
- 24,344
- 3,186
GeorgeS":30fqktrz said:
Ditto!
Nosler has so many different bullet types that it would be impossible to print one maximum load for bullets as different as a Fail Safe, Partition, and AccuBond.
I look at the velocity level that ispublished and then try to reach it with the powder indicated. You may not make it with a Fail Safe or CT but will with a Partition or SB/AccuBond.
It might be useful to show the velocity difference for the longer bullets, or have a section on this subject in the next manual.
But nothing short of a reloading manual for each make of bullet will really solve this problem, and that is not really practical.
As for 3,300 fps in a weatherby, here is what you have to do to make such incredible velocity. I had a 26 inch stainless barrel w cut rifiling, with a .309 bore diameter (not .308), std throat, and use fire formed WW brass, 4831, and a soft copper bullet lke the Bitterroot. I get an honest to god safe 3340 fps!
Without the over bore barrel there is no way to make 3300 fps w a .300 weatherby.
The WW brass is good for 100 fps over Remington, Norma, or Weatherby brass in my experience. At least is was when I worked up these loads 15 years ago.
My previous barrel, a std 300 h and h rechambered for weathebry on this pre 64, would only make 3150 fps with 4350. A bit more w 4831.
Lot to lot powder rates varry so much I just try to reach indicated velocity levels and anything beyond that depends alot on your individual barrel and brass.
I like the weatherby and load it as hot as I can but Ive never got 3250 from my original pre 64 barrel.
Seating a 180 grain out to 3.55 ocl like 1,000 yd shooters do is also very effective in the 300 winchester.
Andy
I look at the velocity level that ispublished and then try to reach it with the powder indicated. You may not make it with a Fail Safe or CT but will with a Partition or SB/AccuBond.
It might be useful to show the velocity difference for the longer bullets, or have a section on this subject in the next manual.
But nothing short of a reloading manual for each make of bullet will really solve this problem, and that is not really practical.
As for 3,300 fps in a weatherby, here is what you have to do to make such incredible velocity. I had a 26 inch stainless barrel w cut rifiling, with a .309 bore diameter (not .308), std throat, and use fire formed WW brass, 4831, and a soft copper bullet lke the Bitterroot. I get an honest to god safe 3340 fps!
Without the over bore barrel there is no way to make 3300 fps w a .300 weatherby.
The WW brass is good for 100 fps over Remington, Norma, or Weatherby brass in my experience. At least is was when I worked up these loads 15 years ago.
My previous barrel, a std 300 h and h rechambered for weathebry on this pre 64, would only make 3150 fps with 4350. A bit more w 4831.
Lot to lot powder rates varry so much I just try to reach indicated velocity levels and anything beyond that depends alot on your individual barrel and brass.
I like the weatherby and load it as hot as I can but Ive never got 3250 from my original pre 64 barrel.
Seating a 180 grain out to 3.55 ocl like 1,000 yd shooters do is also very effective in the 300 winchester.
Andy
joecool544
Beginner
- Nov 14, 2004
- 7
- 0
Andy
The powders you are using just aren't sloww enough. try Imr 7828 with the 26 inch barrel. with rem nickel brass 85.5grs =3307 out of my .300 maybe you need to stick with the WBY. freebore. Wby brass is 88.5grs for 3300.
The powders you are using just aren't sloww enough. try Imr 7828 with the 26 inch barrel. with rem nickel brass 85.5grs =3307 out of my .300 maybe you need to stick with the WBY. freebore. Wby brass is 88.5grs for 3300.
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