What cal for large north american game?

[SJB358]

Thanks for the great suggestions! I have to admit that I am surprised that my 30-06 has been received so favorably. I have a lot of history with this gun as it was my first ever centerfire and a gift from my dad so I will toy with the idea of loading some 200g or 220g partitions. I do have a lot of confidence in that ol' meat getter! I also have to admit that I often try to use every possible reason under the sun to justify another rifle purchase :shock: . As mentioned before I have no immediate plans for this type of hunt but it is high up on my bucket list and it never hurts to be prepared well in advance!

I would feel pretty confident with the 200gr PT's chugging along alot 2600FPS. I really can't think of anything it wouldn't work well for. It has alot of SD and at that speed would be a 400 yard capable round. Again, I have bigger rifles than a 30-06 and no 30-06 in my safe at all, but I can't see me ever being handicapped with a 30-06 with good bullets out of a good handload.

I agree with the others, save your money and buy an extra tag. Scotty

 

[BK]

I also have to admit that I often try to use every possible reason under the sun to justify another rifle purchase :shock:

In that case, an '06 is totally inadequate and you should be ashamed for even thinking about using it!












(Did that help the justification?)

 

[bbearhntr]

I also have to admit that I often try to use every possible reason under the sun to justify another rifle purchase :shock:

In that case, an '06 is totally inadequate and you should be ashamed for even thinking about using it!





(Did that help the justification?)

You are heck of an enabler :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :wink:

I really like the mountain caribou idea though,

I think i need to persuade the wife to get a job so she can start funding my sick addictions :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:

 

[SJB358]

Good luck with that. I've been trying that for ten years! Scotty

 

[DrMike]

I think i need to persuade the wife to get a job so she can start funding my sick addictions

Ha, I tried that many years ago. However, she didn't like the idea of being a hedge fund administrator. It sounded good, though.

 

[FOTIS]

You are heck of an enabler :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :wink:

That is rich!!!!!!! :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

 

[onesonek]

Thanks for the great suggestions! I have to admit that I am surprised that my 30-06 has been received so favorably. I have a lot of history with this gun as it was my first ever centerfire and a gift from my dad so I will toy with the idea of loading some 200g or 220g partitions. I do have a lot of confidence in that ol' meat getter! I also have to admit that I often try to use every possible reason under the sun to justify another rifle purchase :shock: . As mentioned before I have no immediate plans for this type of hunt but it is high up on my bucket list and it never hurts to be prepared well in advance!

As it has been many times before,, one really can't go wrong with a .30-06 !
It may not be ideal for some applications, but it will certainly handle 99% of most in competent hands. It will continue to be in the top of sales, another 100+ years, providing politics don't change everything.
My only other choice if I was limited to one rifle, woud be the .338 WM.

 

[Oldtrader3]

For me, it depends on what bear under what circumstances. If I was going the coastal bear route with a varmit call for calling in coastal brown bears, I would want at least a .340 Bee with 250 grain Partitions (.375 H&H, even better). As for inland grizzlies, I lot of them have been killed with .30-06's at reasonable ranges. I still think that I would prefer my .340 Bee. If you got it, use it.

I had booked a coastal bear hunt booked with my dad some years ago and was going to use my .338 Win Mag and bought a .300 Win Mag for my dad but he did not like even shooting the .300 WM, let alone the .338. He wanted to use his 7x57 Mauser and I thought that was not a good idea. The hunt got cancelled and that was as close as I got to coastal bear hunting. My dad was a dedicated bird hunter and never did really click as a big game hunter. I was worried that an inexperienced bear hunter with a light caliber rifle was a recipe for someone getting hurt with coastal bear.

My dad had killed Quebec moose with his 7 Mauser and a .30-06 but as Dr. Mike said, moose are phlegmatic and seem to spend their remaining energy finding water to die in.

 

[BK]

I would certainly not consider it ideal, but I'd bust a griz with a 7x57, provided it was loaded with 175 Partitions.

 

[DrMike]

I'd bust a griz with a 7x57, provided it was loaded with 175 Partitions.

It's better than a stick in the eye. It is more than enough on a bear that is not alarmed or agitated. However, should things go south, you'll want as big a gun as you can shoot well.

 

[gerry]

I would certainly not consider it ideal, but I'd bust a griz with a 7x57, provided it was loaded with 175 Partitions.

My late uncle did just that many years ago on his farm but used factory loaded 175 gr soft points, it did the job

 

[SJB358]

Man, back in those days, men hunted with what they had. Read many a story about the 250 Savage in the elk woods. In todays camp you would be left out in the cold! Not saying they didn't wound any, but I imagine there are alot of wounded elk from super mags and such as well. Scotty

 

[BK]

I'd bust a griz with a 7x57, provided it was loaded with 175 Partitions.

It's better than a stick in the eye. It is more than enough on a bear that is not alarmed or agitated. However, should things go south, you'll want as big a gun as you can shoot well.

Well, the other end of the spectrum is a .416 Remington, which I'd rather use. But lack of a .416 and possession of a .275 Rigby wouldn't stop me from going.

 

[filmjunkie4ever]

Man, back in those days, men hunted with what they had. Read many a story about the 250 Savage in the elk woods. In todays camp you would be left out in the cold! Not saying they didn't wound any, but I imagine there are alot of wounded elk from super mags and such as well. Scotty

Scotty I believe there is a lot to what you just said. Most of those old boys had one rifle and regardless of what it was they shot it well and they shot it often and therefore knew the limitations of their weapon and themselves. They took good shots and made good shots and as a consequence wounded less animals. Too much gun can be just as bad of a wounder as too little of a gun. Whatever you shoot, shoot it well and often. Learn its limitations and yours and take only good shots.

A good shot with a good bullet will be a successful end to a good hunt every time. :grin:

 

[Oldtrader3]

I am one of the "old boys" who has been using .30-06's and .338 Win Mags for 40+ years to shoot elk and had no issues with the .338 WM. Not at least after the first range session in 1968 when I bought my first one. They also kill elk just about every time DRT.

I like the .250 Savage as well and had a nice Pre 64 Model 70 chambered for it but never would shoot an elk with one.

 

[CatskillCrawler]

For me, it depends on what bear under what circumstances. If I was going the coastal bear route with a varmit call for calling in coastal brown bears, I would want at least a .340 Bee with 250 grain Partitions (.375 H&H, even better). As for inland grizzlies, I lot of them have been killed with .30-06's at reasonable ranges. I still think that I would prefer my .340 Bee. If you got it, use it.

These are my sentiments. As stated the 30-06 should be fine on unaware, feeding bears. Get in close or inflame them and I want a .375 or equivalent. If I had a few years to prepare for this trip, I'd throw $20 a month into my bear gun fund and get myself something with more displacement than a .308 caliber.

 

[SJB358]

That's a great point CC, I like the idea of putting a few dollars away every month for a rifle for the big hunt. Might have to start my brown bear fund that way. There seems to be some comfort in having a 338 or larger if you hunting the big bears up close and personal. Scotty

 

[efw]

Yeah I love that Phil Shoemaker quote that the rifleman who laments the effectivness of the old Springfield on the largest of game either hasn't tried it or is commenting on his own marksmanship. That isn't exact, but that is the gist.

I like the 9,3x74, 9,3x62, or 35 Whelen for old-school gravitas, the 338-06 for utility, and the ole H&H its pure power. Of course up in Alaska the 338 WM is about as common as the Springfield is here, so ammo is not hard to find.

Any rifleman who can look at that 9,3x74 and not feel strangely warm inside should take up golf. It's just sexy as heck as far as I'm concerned...

 

[onesonek]

Yeah I love that Phil Shoemaker quote that the rifleman who laments the effectivness of the old Springfield on the largest of game either hasn't tried it or is commenting on his own marksmanship. That isn't exact, but that is the gist.

I like the 9,3x74, 9,3x62, or 35 Whelen for old-school gravitas, the 338-06 for utility, and the ole H&H its pure power. Of course up in Alaska the 338 WM is about as common as the Springfield is here, so ammo is not hard to find.

Any rifleman who can look at that 9,3x74 and not feel strangely warm inside should take up golf. It's just sexy as heck as far as I'm concerned...

The 9.3x74R is just plain cool ! And I certainly have a soft spot for it.

 

[PJGunner]

Lots of interesting thoughts here. First off, I'm in full agreement with the use of the 30-06, even on coastal grizzlies (Kodiak Browns which are just fish fed Grizzly Bears.)
Just a few things to think about. A Game Warden in Alaska by the name of Josea Sarber choice for the Brown Bear was the .270 win. with 130 gr. factory loads. IIRC, the Silvertips were his favorite. Seems one day he disappeared, never to be seen again. Speculation is he was either done in by salmon poacher or one of the bears got him. He wrote some interesting articles in the early 1940's American Rifleman Magazine. His second choice was the 30-06.
What interested me here though was the comments on using the 7x57 for one of the great bears.
African lions are know to be one tough cookie and the late Finn Aagaard has told several times how his father shot two lions with two quick shots with a long baeled Mauser chambered to the 7x57 Mauser. (1895 Mauser for the rifle?) The lions died. Bullet was probably a 175 gr. round nose at about 2300 FPS. What some might consider an even more rediculous choice was the use of the 6.5 Mannlicher rounds. There were two that I know of, the one for the Mannlicher- Schoenaur and the 6.5 Rumanion Mannlicher although the Brits peferred to all the the 256 Mannlicher. Guys like Blaney Percival just loved to hunt lions with that little popgun with it's 160 gr. bullet at about 2200 FPS. What about John Patterson of the Maneaters it Tsavo fame. His choice was a Lee Metford in .303 British with the 215 gr. round nose. Patterson must have taken an intense dislike for lions as aafyer he finished that bridge, he spent quite a while shooting lions almost as if he could exterminate the species. I won't even bother going into Bell and the roughly 800 elephants he took with his 7x57 AKA the .275 Rigby. He also used the .303 Brit because he like the 10 round magazine and a .400 caliber something but only for emergencies as he hated the recoil.
I've played with the 7x57 quite a bit over the years and I wonder just how well it would work on one of the great bears? I can push a 175 gr. bullet to close to 2500 FPS which is 200 FPS more than Bell or Aagaard's father had for their 7x57 and the 175 (some say 173 but who wants to quibble?) at 2300 FPS was more than adequate for them and bullets are a lot better today than what they had back then. Bell used FMJ bullets but I dunno what Aagaard's dad used and since he's dead, no way to really find out. Probably FMJ's as well but who knows. I do know that I once had a 175 gr. Federal that I shot a Mule Deer with have the bullet enter the chest and exited right along side his exhaust pipe. That deer took off and the wife and I looked for that deer till the sun went down. Oh, and I shot it at about 8 in the morning. The birds led up to what was left the next morning. It was years later that I took what was left of that ammo and ran the last 5 over a chronograph. Velocity was 2210 FPS, a far cry from the 2400 something Federal advertises. Guess they want to be ultra cautious should someone load their stuff into an 1893 or 1895 Mauser. I still have two full boxes of that stuff. The bullet looks might stout with only a small opening at the point. The Winchester 175 gr. load had a bullet with a "big blue nose" as the late John Taylor would say. That bullet at 2400 plus FPS from the 25" barrel of the custom 95 Mauser I had back then would smack big Nevada Mule Deer down right now and the few Black Bears I took with that load when I lived in California also gave up the ghost like right now. Every time I come across a box when cruising gun stores and gun shows, I buy up what I see. So far, I've found all of 2 full boxes. One of my favorite loads for the 7x57 uses the 170 gr. Sierra round nose but they've been gone for a long time. I've yet to shoot something with that bullet but at 2500 FPS it should do a decent job on game.
The reason for all this palaver is someone had to mention the 7x57 on big bears and those thought just came tumbling out, mostly because I have given that idea, using a 7x57 Mauser on a great bear. Darn it! Now you've got my wheels turning again. :shock: :roll: :wink:
Paul B.