Jager1
Beginner
- Sep 23, 2010
- 71
- 0
Just wondering what everyone's thoughts are on the perfect rifle/round/caliber for "Alaska"?
Jager1
Jager1
What's the perfect Alaskan rifle/round?
- Thread starter Jager1
- Start date
- Nov 4, 2004
- 25,660
- 9,957
What are we hunting?
In general, tough to beat a good SS bolt rifle in 338 Win Mag.
JD338
In general, tough to beat a good SS bolt rifle in 338 Win Mag.
JD338
DrMike
Ballistician
- Nov 8, 2006
- 37,575
- 6,729
Not likely to be a "perfect" round. However, as JD338 has suggested, a 338 WM would be a good one. A 375 might be more appropriate, depending on where you primarily hunted. Likely a stainless barrel and action with a synthetic stock would make the list.
- Oct 30, 2004
- 24,493
- 3,650
I would say a SS 375 H&H based on your question. That said if longer distances are encountered a nice 338 or 375 Rum will get the nod.
A
Anonymous
Guest
I don't think there is a perfect "Alaska round". The country is just too big and the critters too diverse for a single round to be perfect for everything.
I've got a .375 for crawling aroung in coastal alders but its out of place on a sheep mountain and I've got a .300WSM for the wide open Interior that's on the wee shy side for Kodiak.
I've been playing around with the .257Wby for a sheep and winter caribou rifle where the ranges are long and country devoid of cover. I probably won't do much with it I couldn't do with my .300 in all reality.
Plenty of Native folks on the coast making do with a .223 as they're mostly shooting seals and potting a few caribou- although the odd polar bear gets smacked occasionally too.
Lot of old timers only had an '06 or .270 and they lived to tell about it.
I think a guy can spend a lot of time thinking about the perfect Alaska rifle, but a pedestrian '06 or .300 is just fine most of the time. The .338 gets a lot of press, but I tend to either want less rifle or more depending on what I'm chasing. The weather here is just nasty at times so I'd probably give the nod to stainless or some coated rifle over blue/walnut but it sure doesn't stir my soul too much.
Right now I've been hunting almost exclusively with my Nosler 48 in .300WSM for a few years and its been stellar but there are a lot of choices out there that would be as equally good. I think if I had to make a suggestion it would be to quit thinking about rifles and just come hunting with the one you got. Chances are you'll want better boots, tent or rain jacket more than a different gun when you get here anyway.
My .$02
I've got a .375 for crawling aroung in coastal alders but its out of place on a sheep mountain and I've got a .300WSM for the wide open Interior that's on the wee shy side for Kodiak.
I've been playing around with the .257Wby for a sheep and winter caribou rifle where the ranges are long and country devoid of cover. I probably won't do much with it I couldn't do with my .300 in all reality.
Plenty of Native folks on the coast making do with a .223 as they're mostly shooting seals and potting a few caribou- although the odd polar bear gets smacked occasionally too.
Lot of old timers only had an '06 or .270 and they lived to tell about it.
I think a guy can spend a lot of time thinking about the perfect Alaska rifle, but a pedestrian '06 or .300 is just fine most of the time. The .338 gets a lot of press, but I tend to either want less rifle or more depending on what I'm chasing. The weather here is just nasty at times so I'd probably give the nod to stainless or some coated rifle over blue/walnut but it sure doesn't stir my soul too much.
Right now I've been hunting almost exclusively with my Nosler 48 in .300WSM for a few years and its been stellar but there are a lot of choices out there that would be as equally good. I think if I had to make a suggestion it would be to quit thinking about rifles and just come hunting with the one you got. Chances are you'll want better boots, tent or rain jacket more than a different gun when you get here anyway.
My .$02
As mentioned nothing is perfect when it is everything from sheep and coastal blacktail to moose and brown bear. But................ given the choice of only one cartridge rifle combo.......... for me it would be a stainless Winchester Model 70, with a synthetic stock, chambered in .338 WM.
Guy Miner
Master Loader
- Apr 6, 2006
- 17,888
- 6,591
Take this with a grain of salt as I fly fish Alaskan salmon - and so far I've always left the wildlife alone. Have seen several moose and quite a few more big bears on my trips there from the 1970's on.
Have never put together a caribou hunt, although I think it's something I'd truly enjoy. Floating one of the Alaskan rivers on a moose hunt is a dream hunt for me. That would be awesome. Sheep? I think I've still got the legs & lungs for 'em... Hope so!
If I was leaving for Alaska soon, I'd grab my old .30-06 M1917, and a few boxes of ammo loaded with the 200 gr Nosler Partition. I shoot that combo well. The sturdy old rifle is in a tough fiberglass stock - which seems to be pretty important as it's rained about 1/3 of the days I've been in Alaska. I'm content with the power of the old '06 coupled with my ability to shoot it well.
If I was buying a new rifle for up there, I'd look hard at the various stainless/synthetic bolt actions avail - with a strong preference for the Ruger. I'd have to check out the new Win 70 Extreme weather as well though. Likely either would be fine.
I'd be hunting moose, caribou and hopefully sheep, so the .30-06 would suit me fine.
I'm not really interested in hunting the big Alaskan brown bear. It seems all too easy to approach them while the salmon are running. They are huge, no doubt.
Mountain grizzly? I could get more enthused about that hunt, and in my mind the good old .30-06 with a 200 gr Nosler is certainly adequate.
I think I can hear my .308/Rem 700 protesting... Perhaps it would be my real choice, with a bunch of 180 gr Nosler Partitions loaded up. Dunno. Something in the .308 or .30-06 class, with a synthetic stock and all or mostly stainless steel.
But - take all that with a grain of salt - it's written by a fisherman... :wink:
Have never put together a caribou hunt, although I think it's something I'd truly enjoy. Floating one of the Alaskan rivers on a moose hunt is a dream hunt for me. That would be awesome. Sheep? I think I've still got the legs & lungs for 'em... Hope so!
If I was leaving for Alaska soon, I'd grab my old .30-06 M1917, and a few boxes of ammo loaded with the 200 gr Nosler Partition. I shoot that combo well. The sturdy old rifle is in a tough fiberglass stock - which seems to be pretty important as it's rained about 1/3 of the days I've been in Alaska. I'm content with the power of the old '06 coupled with my ability to shoot it well.
If I was buying a new rifle for up there, I'd look hard at the various stainless/synthetic bolt actions avail - with a strong preference for the Ruger. I'd have to check out the new Win 70 Extreme weather as well though. Likely either would be fine.
I'd be hunting moose, caribou and hopefully sheep, so the .30-06 would suit me fine.
I'm not really interested in hunting the big Alaskan brown bear. It seems all too easy to approach them while the salmon are running. They are huge, no doubt.
Mountain grizzly? I could get more enthused about that hunt, and in my mind the good old .30-06 with a 200 gr Nosler is certainly adequate.
I think I can hear my .308/Rem 700 protesting... Perhaps it would be my real choice, with a bunch of 180 gr Nosler Partitions loaded up. Dunno. Something in the .308 or .30-06 class, with a synthetic stock and all or mostly stainless steel.
But - take all that with a grain of salt - it's written by a fisherman... :wink:
35 Whelen
Handloader
- Dec 22, 2011
- 2,249
- 574
Hodgeman is giving very good advice here and I like his way of thinking.
So I can tell you this much.................. back in the 1980s and 90s the number one selling gun in the State was; according to the Manager of Longs Drugs; that was the largest gun dealer in Anchorage at that time; was the .338 WM ! And the next canidate was the 30/06; but he told me the 338 lead in sales by about X3! So if you figure for every hundred 06's; that went out the door there was 300; sold in .338WM's! That many folks that actually live and hunt there, must know something! Previous to the mid 1970s the .375 dominated the larger magnum spot, but has slipped alot as the years have gone by, in popularity. At the moment there is a big following of the .375 Ruger, and I believe alot of the hype is from the articles and advertising push, especially out of Craig Boddington, as he has really pushed that caliber, ever since it was introduced. In all fairness Longs Drugs,[ That chain was around 30 stores on the west coast then, from memory] Actual owner down in Ca, was personal friends with Bill Ruger, and he was buying them 2500 at a crack and getting "VERY special pricing" as he was selling them retail to the public back in 1985 for normal dealer cost! So you certainly couldnt compeate with them, and I am sure hundreds of .338s were sold because of that special pricing. Great Northern Guns, hardly wanted to mess with them, as they couldnt begin to match the price, so they had lots of other stuff. And if you mentioned the prices at Longs, they just looked out the window...............
Of course you are way over guned for Sheep and Caribou or Blacktail, but considering you are almost always in Bruin turf, while hunting them, the locals usually always loaded with 210 Noslers and had a 250gr in the bottom of the magazine, in case push came to shove!
I never used it, but a favorite load that floated around the Illiama area back in those days was simply an 06 loaded with 57gr or MRP and the old Hornady 220gn RN bullets right at 2600fps from a 24" barrel. That loading has accounted for many larger Brown Bears at that time and was considered a favorite with guides that carried the 06. I did whack some with an 06 with 200gr Noslers and 59.5grs of 4350 and that would work but sometimes it took quite a few after they were wounded to get them anchored again! The .338 spoke with a very different authority; when it came to wounded bears! Alot of older guides praised the old discontinued 300gr Silvertips as their favorite bullet, and Bill Sims one of the finest bearmen that ever hunted up there, told me that more than once, his Model 70 .338WM with those 300grain ST's had saved his life, as he had a reputation of waiting until the Polar Bears where right ontop of the hunter, before he would shoot! And there were many storys about the bears falling right up against their feet! Having guided with lots of fellow guides over the years, if you had to crawl into cave full of wounded bears, he would be your man! He has the heart of a lion, and could be counted on to always stay cool in the most horrible situations. He and Denny T probably accounted for more large bears, than most any outfit from the 60's on thru. Over the years, I found Bitteroot Bullets, at that time to be the "topdog" bear bullets available . Probably just trivia but thought I would throw that into this mix. Here is a picture from I think era mid 80's with a Grizzly that unfortunately got in front of my then new .338 and tryed to pass the bullet proof test........................ I think it squared out around 8 feet or something like that, it is of course folded up as small as you could get it to fit onto that old GI packboard it was sitting on for the photo. Had beautiful long fur for a fall bear . It was shot up in the Beaver Mts west of McGrath when I was flying for Jake Gaudett one fall over on the Innoko River at his Moose camp. Plane is a custom Piper PA-12 with a 160 Lyc and Borer prop, and Jake couldnt believe some of the Beaver flowages we used to land in to get his hunters in where the "big ones" were, I should have never sold it as it was one of the best performers we ever had.
So I can tell you this much.................. back in the 1980s and 90s the number one selling gun in the State was; according to the Manager of Longs Drugs; that was the largest gun dealer in Anchorage at that time; was the .338 WM ! And the next canidate was the 30/06; but he told me the 338 lead in sales by about X3! So if you figure for every hundred 06's; that went out the door there was 300; sold in .338WM's! That many folks that actually live and hunt there, must know something! Previous to the mid 1970s the .375 dominated the larger magnum spot, but has slipped alot as the years have gone by, in popularity. At the moment there is a big following of the .375 Ruger, and I believe alot of the hype is from the articles and advertising push, especially out of Craig Boddington, as he has really pushed that caliber, ever since it was introduced. In all fairness Longs Drugs,[ That chain was around 30 stores on the west coast then, from memory] Actual owner down in Ca, was personal friends with Bill Ruger, and he was buying them 2500 at a crack and getting "VERY special pricing" as he was selling them retail to the public back in 1985 for normal dealer cost! So you certainly couldnt compeate with them, and I am sure hundreds of .338s were sold because of that special pricing. Great Northern Guns, hardly wanted to mess with them, as they couldnt begin to match the price, so they had lots of other stuff. And if you mentioned the prices at Longs, they just looked out the window...............
Of course you are way over guned for Sheep and Caribou or Blacktail, but considering you are almost always in Bruin turf, while hunting them, the locals usually always loaded with 210 Noslers and had a 250gr in the bottom of the magazine, in case push came to shove!
I never used it, but a favorite load that floated around the Illiama area back in those days was simply an 06 loaded with 57gr or MRP and the old Hornady 220gn RN bullets right at 2600fps from a 24" barrel. That loading has accounted for many larger Brown Bears at that time and was considered a favorite with guides that carried the 06. I did whack some with an 06 with 200gr Noslers and 59.5grs of 4350 and that would work but sometimes it took quite a few after they were wounded to get them anchored again! The .338 spoke with a very different authority; when it came to wounded bears! Alot of older guides praised the old discontinued 300gr Silvertips as their favorite bullet, and Bill Sims one of the finest bearmen that ever hunted up there, told me that more than once, his Model 70 .338WM with those 300grain ST's had saved his life, as he had a reputation of waiting until the Polar Bears where right ontop of the hunter, before he would shoot! And there were many storys about the bears falling right up against their feet! Having guided with lots of fellow guides over the years, if you had to crawl into cave full of wounded bears, he would be your man! He has the heart of a lion, and could be counted on to always stay cool in the most horrible situations. He and Denny T probably accounted for more large bears, than most any outfit from the 60's on thru. Over the years, I found Bitteroot Bullets, at that time to be the "topdog" bear bullets available . Probably just trivia but thought I would throw that into this mix. Here is a picture from I think era mid 80's with a Grizzly that unfortunately got in front of my then new .338 and tryed to pass the bullet proof test........................ I think it squared out around 8 feet or something like that, it is of course folded up as small as you could get it to fit onto that old GI packboard it was sitting on for the photo. Had beautiful long fur for a fall bear . It was shot up in the Beaver Mts west of McGrath when I was flying for Jake Gaudett one fall over on the Innoko River at his Moose camp. Plane is a custom Piper PA-12 with a 160 Lyc and Borer prop, and Jake couldnt believe some of the Beaver flowages we used to land in to get his hunters in where the "big ones" were, I should have never sold it as it was one of the best performers we ever had.
big rifle man
Handloader
- Dec 21, 2005
- 850
- 0
I have a cousin that's lived in Wasilla, Alaska for going on 30 years. He's hunted basically all that Alaska has to offer and his go to rifle is a .338. His comment to me was if they made a .338RUM back then he would have bought that. His .338 drops buffalo and Moose quite nice. His comment was "yes, most of the time you don't need the extra horsepower but it's nice to know it's there, just in case." He's had plenty of meetings with coastal brownies while fly fishing for Salmon and also had them walk up while gutting game so I can understand his feelings about carrying an insurance policy with you when your in the outback. Now, after writing this I'm sure someone is going to say, "The eskimos shoot seals with their 222's and 223's so there's no reason a .243 wouldn't work for me in Alaska. :lol:
DrMike
Ballistician
- Nov 8, 2006
- 37,575
- 6,729
Earl,
Interesting that you mention Bitterroot bullets. I've still got a bag of 160 grain Bitterroots for my 7mm RM. Not trying to take the thread off too much. I began by suggesting that either a 338 WM or a 375 (I didn't specify whether the H&H or the Ruger was intended as it wouldn't make much difference). I'd throw into the mix my 9.3X64 Brenneke, except it is a handloading proposition solely. One could do much worse that tote a 35 Whelen loaded with a good premium bullet at good velocities. A 358 Norma Magnum loaded with heavy premium bullets would work very well, as would a 358 STA.
Interesting that you mention Bitterroot bullets. I've still got a bag of 160 grain Bitterroots for my 7mm RM. Not trying to take the thread off too much. I began by suggesting that either a 338 WM or a 375 (I didn't specify whether the H&H or the Ruger was intended as it wouldn't make much difference). I'd throw into the mix my 9.3X64 Brenneke, except it is a handloading proposition solely. One could do much worse that tote a 35 Whelen loaded with a good premium bullet at good velocities. A 358 Norma Magnum loaded with heavy premium bullets would work very well, as would a 358 STA.
35 Whelen
Handloader
- Dec 22, 2011
- 2,249
- 574
Yea Mike,
We had a guide when I worked for Kirk Gay of the original" Alaska Safari" that was started by his dad old Ward Gay. This guide had a brother that worked for the Telephone company in Anchorage and he could seam to get unlimited amounts of Anc phone books for us to play with. The Bitterroots were actually in a class all by themselves; until the Swifts came out, and of course the rest is history! I am sure if those 310gr Woodlieghs are designed for Water Buffalo they are darn good too: But having never actually used them I would need to do some testing before I would head over to Kodiak to tangle with a 10fter!
I almost picked up a box of there 280gr Swifts; stuff last week as Cabelas had them in the Bargin Cave, marked down from $63 to 42 bucks for fifty. That would be one sweet bullet in the Whelen, with about 58 grs of RL 15, for brother bruin even on the days he has PMS! :twisted:
We had a guide when I worked for Kirk Gay of the original" Alaska Safari" that was started by his dad old Ward Gay. This guide had a brother that worked for the Telephone company in Anchorage and he could seam to get unlimited amounts of Anc phone books for us to play with. The Bitterroots were actually in a class all by themselves; until the Swifts came out, and of course the rest is history! I am sure if those 310gr Woodlieghs are designed for Water Buffalo they are darn good too: But having never actually used them I would need to do some testing before I would head over to Kodiak to tangle with a 10fter!
I almost picked up a box of there 280gr Swifts; stuff last week as Cabelas had them in the Bargin Cave, marked down from $63 to 42 bucks for fifty. That would be one sweet bullet in the Whelen, with about 58 grs of RL 15, for brother bruin even on the days he has PMS! :twisted:
DrMike
Ballistician
- Nov 8, 2006
- 37,575
- 6,729
I don't have any 280s on my shelf, but I have a good selection of 225 and 250 grain A-Frames. I just got my Whelen back, and I have some cases prepped and ready to load this morning. I'm focused at first on 250 grain Partitions and 250 grain A-Frames. They will work very well for Bro Bear in these mountains. I'm hoping for a draw this spring to test these out. In a year of two, I'll likely put in for one of the extreme northern zones where the odds are about 0.5:1.0 that you'll get a draw as they are under subscribed. Likely, the Brenneke I'm building will make that trip, though the Whelen will almost assuredly journey with me.
35 Whelen
Handloader
- Dec 22, 2011
- 2,249
- 574
Well it sounds like you have exactly what you need to get the job done Mike. I got my new chrono last week and was out to the pit yesterday to line up my Hawkeye 270 with that new Zeiss scope with the Rapid Z reticule and just threw the Whelen in and a few loads of 250gr Speers and RL-15 and either I am loosing my mind or I got an odd can of powder as I alway had to get up over 59 grs in this gun to ever see 2600fps on the old chrono . But yesterday the 58gr loads where cracking over the 2600fps most of the time??????? So not sure if it is that chrono is reading fast or the old one read low or there is something different about that can of RL-15 but it sure looked good ! I am waiting for some Nosler 2nds in 250 PT but would like to try those 280s just for fun but I think it may be to heavy for the rugers twist and probably would be more suited to your rifle. :|
DrMike
Ballistician
- Nov 8, 2006
- 37,575
- 6,729
While it is possible that your chronograph is not calibrated properly, it does sound as if you picked up a can of RL15 that is on the slow side. I always advise, though few take my advice, to buy an 8 pound keg when a lot seems to give what someone is looking for; at the least, buy several pounds. I run into this sort of significant variation on powders fairly constantly. Lot-to-lot variation is far more significant than many people realise. Consequently, have you used the Speers on game with your Whelen. I have a couple of boxes of the 250 grain .358 HotCor bullets and a box or two of 250 grain Grand Slams. I just wondered if you have used them.
I think my 338WM is about my best pick for Alaska, has a great synthetic stock, SS and seems to work for alot of stuff pretty well. Now, if I was building a Alaskan rifle today, I would really like the 358 Norma in the same exact rifle. This is all from a guy who has never hunted Alaska.
With the 338, I have the ability to run 200-300gr bullets at useable speeds. I can't think of much it wouldn't do okay with. Granted, the 250 PT is a pretty good compromise for my shooting here in the lower 48 states.
With the 338, I have the ability to run 200-300gr bullets at useable speeds. I can't think of much it wouldn't do okay with. Granted, the 250 PT is a pretty good compromise for my shooting here in the lower 48 states.
35 Whelen
Handloader
- Dec 22, 2011
- 2,249
- 574
Dr Mike,
I do not have much to share with you on the 250gr Speers except I have used them here on big Maine Moose and they have always worked well . I did post that report that guy did with them in both the Whelen and some 350RM from the boys up in the Yukon and in the end the sorta came to the conclusion that neither caliber was capable of over driving the Speer bullet and more or less said at the end of the article that it was their top choice after 13 years of collecting data from actual kills of game [mostly moose] and examining ALOT of recovered bullets. He put alot into the study and had alot of fellas helping him around the Whitehorse area . So I dont know how anyone could argue with his findings. So even though I never considered it a premium bullet they shoot great and come to find out in the guns you and I shoot; according to them; it is actually all you will ever need!!!
At a hundred yards and a broadside shot it will whilt any Big Bull Moose hit right under the hump and I mean right now! I dig premium bullets but you got to wonder sometimes if we all dont go a bit over the top? I would still use a Swift or Partition if I was going to square off with a big bear but I bet those Speers would work fine, just mostly in a guys head I think. But I have not done it with that bullet so I cant say for sure????
I do not have much to share with you on the 250gr Speers except I have used them here on big Maine Moose and they have always worked well . I did post that report that guy did with them in both the Whelen and some 350RM from the boys up in the Yukon and in the end the sorta came to the conclusion that neither caliber was capable of over driving the Speer bullet and more or less said at the end of the article that it was their top choice after 13 years of collecting data from actual kills of game [mostly moose] and examining ALOT of recovered bullets. He put alot into the study and had alot of fellas helping him around the Whitehorse area . So I dont know how anyone could argue with his findings. So even though I never considered it a premium bullet they shoot great and come to find out in the guns you and I shoot; according to them; it is actually all you will ever need!!!
At a hundred yards and a broadside shot it will whilt any Big Bull Moose hit right under the hump and I mean right now! I dig premium bullets but you got to wonder sometimes if we all dont go a bit over the top? I would still use a Swift or Partition if I was going to square off with a big bear but I bet those Speers would work fine, just mostly in a guys head I think. But I have not done it with that bullet so I cant say for sure????
DrMike
Ballistician
- Nov 8, 2006
- 37,575
- 6,729
Earl,
I know I've recovered one (and only one as all others have been complete pass throughs) Speer .358 220 grain FN from a grizzly. It worked very well. I may have to load up these 250 grain HotCors just to see how they perform. On the other hand, I have a goodly supply of both the 250 grain Partitions and the 250 grain A-Frames, so I'm well stocked for the Whelen.
I know I've recovered one (and only one as all others have been complete pass throughs) Speer .358 220 grain FN from a grizzly. It worked very well. I may have to load up these 250 grain HotCors just to see how they perform. On the other hand, I have a goodly supply of both the 250 grain Partitions and the 250 grain A-Frames, so I'm well stocked for the Whelen.
Of the guns that I own now, I'm going with my stainless Winchester 338 WM, loaded with a 250 AB. For everything. If I could have a sheep/deer, and an everything else gun... I would go with a 270 WSM, and a 375R. Would load the 270 WSM with a 140 AB, and the 375R with a 260 AB. Both would be stainless. Both would have no more scope that 8x.
sask boy":3h3vyutx said:If I could only have one rifle and lived in the way north. It would be a 375 Mr. Holland & Mr. Holland. I shot one for many years and it really can do it all.
They have been around a long long time for a reason
Blessings,
Dan
Yes I have been shooting one of those for over 30 years as well and I have to admit that it was a toss up between it and the .338 WM with regards to this particular topic. I like them both and have shot a lot of game with both cartridges. For me, and it is just my opinion, having shot both a lot I still feel the .338 is a better choice when you have to factor in mountain hunting for sheep and goat. With bullets from 180 to 300 grains.......... it is very versatile these days. Heck I have even used my .338 on speed goats a time or two. :grin: Now that is some serious overkill!
Thank goodness we do not actually have to do anything so silly as to cut back to just one rifle. Times are tough, but really.............
