wildcat calibers

[Thankful Otter]

why ?

and please don't use the tried and used up---why not ?

Is there a wildcat cartridge you hunt with that gives you more than any production caliber on the market ?

Its it just for fun, simply because you enjoy the build and fun of working with something different ?

And I am talking hunting, as I have no personal interest in target shooting. I am sure for target shooting, it is what can you build that will let you shoot the flattest, furtherest, and most accurate and that makes perfect sense to build something that helps you win the contest.

 

[PJGunner]

"Is there a wildcat cartridge you hunt with that gives you more than any production caliber on the market ?"

Probably not. When I had my .375 Taylor built (.338 Mag. necked up to .375 caliber) it was because I'd put in several transfer requests to Alaskan weather stations. I figured as it duplicated the .375 H&H in a lighter 30-06 length action it would be good to go. In the mean time I could use it as an elk rifle, especially in the higher mountains in northern Arizona. Only 7.5 pounds with scope, sling and full magazine wit one up the spout. It was something with plenty of power that didn't weigh so much that it would break my arches down.
Other that that rifle, I never had much interest (called lack of money :lol: ) to mess much with wildcatting.
Paul B.

 

[joelkdouglas]

Because Scotty talked me into it!

In all seriousness I was trying to rationalize a reason, but there's no absolute need for a wildcat today. If a 30-06 isn't flat enough shooting just get a 6.5 or 7 Weatherby or a 300 Win Mag or whatever.

But if you hand load a wildcat is no big deal either. And something like a 7 MSM recoils about like a 30-06 but extends your MPBR about 75 yards. Out west that's a pretty fair advantage.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[truck driver]

I had the 35 Whelen AI built because I always wanted one and reboring a existing rifle was the cheapest way to go. According to all the gun rag writers it is worthless and doesn't achieve anything. It has many benefits that you only see thru long term use, lower cartridge pressure, less recoil than the parent cartridge and extended case life in my opinion.
But I will say with out wildcatters we wouldn't have the cartridge designs we have today since they all were someones idea for something different some stuck and some didn't.
Remington has made more Wildcat calibers standard than any other company and some of them are very good.
Do we need them and will the do anything a factory available cartridge can do today the answer is no. Are they fun to build and work with yes.

 

[IdahoCTD]

It all depends on what you deem a benefit. I'm building a 6.5x68 Imp specifically to use RWS brass and to get away from the belt on my 6.5-300wm. I could build a 26 Nosler and have basically the same thing but brass cost more and isn't nearly as good. Numerous benchrest shooters have reloaded 6.5x68 RWS brass nearly 50 times. I doubt the Nosler brass goes more than 5 or 6. I also have a 7-338 Norma Imp in the works for the brass but also for the OAL. With long VLD bullets in a 2.85" length case like the 7RUM it's a PITA. The Norma case is only 2.5" long and will work in shorter mag boxes and requires less bolt throw. I also have about 1200 Lapua made 423 Dakota cases for it.

So there are benefits to some cases over the factory available cases. When I built my first wildcat almost 30 years ago there were probably less than half of the calibers that are common today. The old standard Weatherby's, 7RM, 30-06, 270, 300wm, 338wm, 243, and 308's were around but none of the Ultra mag cases, WSM's, WSSM's, SAUM's, 30-378, 338-378, Noser cases, 6.5 Creedmoor, 6.5x47, 204 Ruger, etc. The 260 Remington and 6.5x284 weren't even standardized. A large portion of those were developed in the last 20 years or less.

For the first time in a long time I built 2 rifles in Standard calibers (300wsm and 300wm) to hunt with. For the last several years I hunted with a 6.5-300wm and a 7-300wm. Until the 26 Nosler was made there wasn't a factory cartridge as fast as the 6.5-300wm. I made the 7-300wm because for a long time no one made 7STW brass, a 7-300wm gives up very little velocity to a 7STW, and I already had dies from the 7-300wm I built in the early 90's. It was the second wildcat I ever built after a 30-338wm. Also the 300wm case length fits in a magazine better and I can use RWS brass.

Wildcatters have always been the developers of new cartridges. The factories scoop up their ideas and turn them into standards. There are so many choices today that the need to wildcat is much less but it will never stop tinkerers like myself from trying to build a better mouse trap.

 

[sask boy]

I really only need my 270win but I like lots and lots of calibres :wink:.
I actual have 2 wildcats both because I don't like shooting the 06 (to ordinary) so I have a Custom made 35 Whelen & also a 280AI mostly because they are different.

Blessings,
Dan

 

[alaska100]

excellent question cheyenne and thank you gentlemen for your excellent responses and answers to her question.

I must admit, I had the similar thought that cheyenne had. I thought it has to be a labor of love, fun, and exciting for them and that is all it needs to be of course. But in the mountains what do you gain over a standard caliber was my question to myself.

After reading the above responses, it is more of a question ask by younger members of the forum, like Cheyenne and I because so many old wildcat calibers are now standard or something similar to them. 20, 30, 40 years ago the number of standard calibers were less than today and that is because of gentlemen like yourself, you said "lets try this" and it caught on and become a standard. I get it, thank you

Are there any standard cartridges on the market today that one of our members had a hand in it's development ?

Dan isn't the 35 Whelen a so called standard caliber now or production made caliber ? I remember Aleena used the 280 AI on her Marco Polo hunt and I looked at it when considering the 257 Weatherby, but it was too close to my 300 H & H and I wanted something smaller. Speaking of Weatherby Calibers, they were all new at one time

Brooke

 

[truck driver]

I would like to add that the companies are still standardizing wildcats today. There is an article in Field&Stream on the so called new 6.5-300Wby yeah I know I'm going to be called out on this but just telling what I read. It was developed around the same time the 264 Winchester came out and flopped. I was originally designed for 1000yd matches and Roy didn't want to standardize it since Americans didn't like anything metric at the time and didn't want it to flop like the 264 Winchester.
Weatherby posted this link in face book. ( http://www.fieldstream.com/blog/the-gun ... rby-65-300 )

 

[BF375]

why ?

and please don't use the tried and used up---why not ?

Is there a wildcat cartridge you hunt with that gives you more than any production caliber on the market ?

Its it just for fun, simply because you enjoy the build and fun of working with something different ?

And I am talking hunting, as I have no personal interest in target shooting. I am sure for target shooting, it is what can you build that will let you shoot the flattest, furtherest, and most accurate and that makes perfect sense to build something that helps you win the contest.

30-40 years working with the 7 Rem Mag (ad most other commercial 7mm's both standard and magnum) made me aware of a couple of minor shortcomings of the 7 mm Rem Mag. One problem was a neck that was too short,and the other was that I felt the case could use a little bit more capacity.

I never liked the fact that the case was held to 30/06 OAL, but understood completely why it was done. Consequently I modified a few M70's and chambered them for a "long throat" 7 Rem Mag and with a 160 gr bullet loaded substantially longer than most any commercial 7 RM would accept. This worked fine with 160-175 gr bullets but the short neck compromised bullet seating with 140-150 gr bullets. It was less than ideal.

So about 5 years ago, following the lead provided by Art Mashburn, Warren Page, and Bob Hagel (and a pal on another Internet forum) , about 5-6 years ago I had Gene Simillion of Gunnison, Colorado build me a 7mm Mashburn Super on a modified M 70 Classic action with a H&H length box,24" 9 twist Krieger, and Echols Legend Edge stock.

This cartridge had greater case capacity than a 7 Rem Mag (not by a lot but enough),and a longer neck for more flexibility seating all bullets. I was not looking for the fastest 7mm magnum but one that I felt was "optimum". Art Mashburn felt the same way and despite working with wildcat 7mm magnums of greater and lesser capacity, he named this one the "Super" because it was so efficient compared to the others.

The cartridge easily gave 3200+ fps with 160 Nosler Partitions and Bitterroots,and 3075 with 175 gr Partitions.Starting loads with either bullet were as fast as a maxed out 7 Rem Mag.

Yes I could have gotten a 7mm STW, but had already been down that road and felt the cartridge needed a 26" barrel;ad was no better than the Mashburn in a 24" barrel. Plus the cartridge was fading and brass was harder to come by. I could form Mashburn brass from common 300 Win Mag brass.

I had also done the 7mm Dakota and suffered brass issues and did not like being tied to the odd head size in case I wanted to re barrel, and one source of brass. gain the Mashburn offered an easily formed alternative from common brass. I also could have gone to a 7mm Weatherby but did not want to be tied to free bore in an expensive custom rifle.

The cartridge and rifle have been a success and a number of people have contacted me about building their own. Some have moved on to other stuff but many have stuck with it, including a pair of the most experienced international BG hunters I know. They are racking up a lot of kills with the Mashburn and like it a lot.

If I had it to do over again I likely would build a rifle like the one I have now and hunted everything with it. I sure did not need it but it's by far my favorite 7mm magnum all time....and I have owned some good ones.

 

[SJB358]

All I have is the Mashburn but to jump on BF375's back, he pushed me over the edge along with me reading all of Hagels writing about it as a young lad. There are a few others that'll best it ballistically but when you look at the entire package it really does what I want with hunting bullets in a 24" barrel in a fairly light rifle. I've only hunted mine one year but man, as Bob mentioned, if I had of been a smart lad I would have built a Mashburn 15 years ago and piled up animals in bliss.

There are some other wildcats out there that are sorta best but for the most part the MSM is about as far as I wanna go with monkey'ing around with case forming and stuff.

 

[BF375]

Scotty maybe old, and hopelessly retro but in truth there are very few hunting problems that can't be solved with a 175 gr Nosler Partition at almost 3100 fps. :grin:

Interesting that I know one accomplished match shooter who feeds his Mashburn 195 gr Bergers and shoots them to 1500 yards or so. The cartridge leaves next to nothing on the table to more modern 7mm Magnums, belted, or non.

 

[Thankful Otter]

Interesting and informational replies.

Scotty do you remember my asking you about the 244 H & H ?. Well, anyway, I was never able to stop thinking about it and mainly because I wanted to complete the set. As you know I have the 375, 300 and 275 H & H, sooo
I have decided to get the 244 whether I need it or not. Like Fotis's 6.5 x 300 Weatherby, it is a hot rod and to be honest I have very little use or need for it, as a hunting rifle. I do not believe it qualifies as a wildcat, but there sure isn't very many around. I also thought about the 240 Apex, as Holland and Holland was also involved with it around the time April and Dr Mike was born, but decided to only get the 244

 

[DrMike]

Watch your tongue, young lady. I'll have you know I was a teenager when they brought out that cartridge.

 

[Europe]

Dr Mike, ignore her maybe she will go away

For what it is worth, I would rather have Fortis's 6.5 than your 244, if we are comparing unusual calibers that are hot rods.

BTW, you better be nice to Dr Mike and I if you want us to man one of your race stations, as you might arrive and find no one there. Because of our age we will be in a rocking chair in front of a nice warm fire and you will be up ---- creek without a paddle.

 

[DrMike]

How'd Cheyenne get that far without a paddle, April? :? I'm not walking (or wading) all the way up there just to take her a paddle! :mrgreen:

 

[SJB358]

I say get what you want.. I would never prurposedly talk someone out of something, especially in your case Cheyenne.

Bob, you are right, a 175 Partition really does cover a whole lot of ground. Need to finish up my load for the Fall and double check the 175 BBCs shoot well enough to put an elk on its chin.

 

[truck driver]

Stop! stop! I can't take it any more I want to change my 7mmRM into a 7mm MSM and I haven't even seen if it will shoot good yet. :shock: :roll: :lol:

 

[IdahoCTD]

How about do your own 264 H&H magnum. It would be about the same as my 6.5-300wm but it would be cool to say your the only one you know with one. You could always do a 244 too but I'd think a 264 would be more useful.

 

[SJB358]

Stop! stop! I can't take it any more I want to change my 7mmRM into a 7mm MSM and I haven't even seen if it will shoot good yet. :shock: :roll: :lol:

It is too easy.... Reamer in/reamer out, get an H&H mag box, Follower and spring and you are DONE... It has been a super easy cartridge to deal with that does exactly what it's supposed to, 160's at 3200 and 175's at 3050. No special powders or standing on a washing machine to get enough powder in the case... Just easy.

 

[truck driver]

Stop! stop! I can't take it any more I want to change my 7mmRM into a 7mm MSM and I haven't even seen if it will shoot good yet. :shock: :roll: :lol:

It is too easy.... Reamer in/reamer out, get an H&H mag box, Follower and spring and you are DONE... It has been a super easy cartridge to deal with that does exactly what it's supposed to, 160's at 3200 and 175's at 3050. No special powders or standing on a washing machine to get enough powder in the case... Just easy.

Boy for a friend you got a lot of heart rubbing it in like that. :lol:
Actually if I was going to do something like that I think I would go with the 28 Nosler so I could have factory brass with the proper head stamp.