Win. Model 70 30-06 deforms bullet tips?

[nosler06]

I am wondering if anyone else has experienced the deforming of the bullet tip of a Nosler 180gr part. from the recoil. The next bullet in the magazine of my 30-06 becomes deformed by a squarish notch in the lead portion of the lead tip of the speer point. I chose for many years to use the 180gr Partition protected point because of this. I am now hunting in more open range and am looking to extend the shot distance out to anywhere from 200 to 400yds. I am concerned with the amount of bullet drop due to the BC of the prot. pt. in comparrison to the BC of the speer point. I have reloaded a series of ladder rounds switching from my originally used IMR4350 to H4350 due to temp concerns and am looking to find a load which will work well out to 400yds. I wanted to stay with the Partition 180gr as where I live I hunt anywhere from whitetails to moose, and have crossed paths with the odd grizzly bear as well.

 

[JD338]

That is how the BT came about.
In all reality, the deformed tips are not going to have much, if any, affect at the distances you are shooting. An option for you would be the 180 gr AB. It is a tough bullet and will hold up to moose and grizzly.

JD338

 

[SJB358]

I would test out to your range of 400 yards. Chances are the tips won't make much difference on your trajectory. Give a full magazine a try and see what happens..

 

[nosler06]

That is how the BT came about.
In all reality, the deformed tips are not going to have much, if any, affect at the distances you are shooting. An option for you would be the 180 gr AB. It is a tough bullet and will hold up to moose and grizzly.

JD338

I was not sure if the deformed tip would affect the flight of the bullet. I was assuming that it would cause a weird arodynamic pattern in the air and cause erratic shot placements. That was why my concern lead me to the protected point bullet.
I have used the Partition bullet since i was 15yrs old some 30yrs now and have had the best success with this bullet. 400+yds 2 shot bull moose kill and many others too have dropped with no lost or long runners from this bullet. I am not totally sold on the AccuBond yet, although I do like what I see from other peoples testimony.

 

[DrMike]

For all practical purpose, shots under 450 yards will be unaffected. Shoot your Partitions and enjoy the results of game in the freezer.

 

[6mm Remington]

I'm with the other guys. Other than bothering you, it won't have much effect in practical terms. It's impossible to not like those darn Partitions! If you aren't quite sold on the AccuBond have you thought about trying the 168 gr. E-tip?? My son has used the 90 gr. E-tip in his 6mm Remington with great success, and he took his first elk with it also!! I believe Dr. Mike also has some good success stories from shooting a moose with that bullet in addition to several other animals. You would probably be able to get it going a bit faster than the 180 gr. bullet for a slightly improved trajectory, and it would retain a very high weight percentage which would make up for the 12 grains less in bullet weight starting out. Just a thought.
David

 

[Oldtrader3]

Consider this, most lead tipped bullets burn the outer portion of the lead noses off in the first 200 yards anyway. This is why, as DrMike said, that it is difficult to see where these deformed noses make any differnce out to 400 yards. I havw also noticed that damaged lead tips do not seem to affect Partition performance or accuracy either.

 

[nosler06]

Consider this, most lead tipped bullets burn the outer portion of the lead noses off in the first 200 yards anyway. This is why, as DrMike said, that it is difficult to see where these deformed noses make any differnce out to 400 yards. I havw also noticed that damaged lead tips do not seem to affect Partition performance or accuracy either.

If the tips melt off then why is the BC for a 180gr Partition protected point at .361 and a 180gr Partition speer point at .474? I'm not sure, but thought they were the same bullet only the tip has been flattened or removed on the protected point. Am I not correct thinking this?

 

[.300winmag]

Bullet metplate diameter makes a difference in a bullets trajectory. Deformed tips from the magazine will lower the bullets BC. Metplate diameter can actually make quite a noticeable difference at 1,000 yards given the right shooter and equipment. The meplate diameter has to do with how much frontal surface area is compressing the air when the bullet is in supersonic flight. The less the surface area is, the less force it takes to compress the air, thus you get a higher BC. Bullet pointing dies are commonly used by F-class and Palma shooters in order to raise the BC's of their bullets by 1-2 percent, which may not seem like much but in those types of competitions, wind is your worst enemy and anything you can do to help with the wind may mean the difference between a win and a loss.

The thing to remember is that metplate diameter has less effect on large caliber bullets and more effect on small caliber bullets. This is because on the small caliber bullet, the metplate diameter is a much higher percentage of the overall bullet diameter. A 0.060" metplate on a .224" caliber bullet is 26.8 percent of the bullets diameter while the same metplate on a .30 caliber bullet is only 19.5 percent of the bullets diameter.

The point is metplates being damaged in the magazine will affect the flight of the bullet, especially if the tip gets deformed non-uniformally, that could cause stabilization issues as the center of mass would no longer be on the axis of rotation. Whether or not you will see a difference in bullet impacts at 400 yards I don't know for sure. The best thing you can do is go out and shoot a group by single feeding the rounds and then compare it to a group that was fired with rounds stacked in the magazine. This will allow you to compare the difference between good tips and deformed tips. I wouldn't be surprised if you get a little variation between the two honestly.

As for tips melting in bullet flight, I've never heard of that. I've head of cores liquifying and causing bullet failure when too fast of a twist barrel and a thin jacket is used, but I've never heard of lead tips melting off in flight. Not saying it couldn't happen, just hoping that someone may be able to point me in the direction of some information of this happening.

 

[nosler06]

Bullet metplate diameter makes a difference in a bullets trajectory. Deformed tips from the magazine will lower the bullets BC. Metplate diameter can actually make quite a noticeable difference at 1,000 yards given the right shooter and equipment. The meplate diameter has to do with how much frontal surface area is compressing the air when the bullet is in supersonic flight. The less the surface area is, the less force it takes to compress the air, thus you get a higher BC. Bullet pointing dies are commonly used by F-class and Palma shooters in order to raise the BC's of their bullets by 1-2 percent, which may not seem like much but in those types of competitions, wind is your worst enemy and anything you can do to help with the wind may mean the difference between a win and a loss.

The thing to remember is that metplate diameter has less effect on large caliber bullets and more effect on small caliber bullets. This is because on the small caliber bullet, the metplate diameter is a much higher percentage of the overall bullet diameter. A 0.060" metplate on a .224" caliber bullet is 26.8 percent of the bullets diameter while the same metplate on a .30 caliber bullet is only 19.5 percent of the bullets diameter.

The point is metplates being damaged in the magazine will affect the flight of the bullet, especially if the tip gets deformed non-uniformally, that could cause stabilization issues as the center of mass would no longer be on the axis of rotation. Whether or not you will see a difference in bullet impacts at 400 yards I don't know for sure. The best thing you can do is go out and shoot a group by single feeding the rounds and then compare it to a group that was fired with rounds stacked in the magazine. This will allow you to compare the difference between good tips and deformed tips. I wouldn't be surprised if you get a little variation between the two honestly.

As for tips melting in bullet flight, I've never heard of that. I've head of cores liquifying and causing bullet failure when too fast of a twist barrel and a thin jacket is used, but I've never heard of lead tips melting off in flight. Not saying it couldn't happen, just hoping that someone may be able to point me in the direction of some information of this happening.

I am sorry if this sounds dumb, but I am not sure what you are referring to as the metplate. I tried to google it, but did not find a real good explanation. I do like you suggestion of shooting a set of group rounds single fed and a group of magazine deformed rounds. This would really tell me what will be if any difference to impact points.

 

[Oldtrader3]

I do not know: but it used to be the accepted science when I was younger that due to spin rates over 200,000 rpm and velocities of 2800+ fps, that these dynamics combined would get the surface temperature of the lead tip above 621*F and would melt off any deformities? I do not know if this is true or not but that was the lore of exterior ballistics 40 years ago.

I am just a customer, you guys have the lab. Tell me what actually happens? I have shot deformed bullets to 300 yards (that was our range max) and it was very hard to tell the deformed from the undeformed but this was 30 years ago when factory bullets were not as uniform and accurate as they are now.

For what it is worth, I would assume that the dynamics and axis of spin would be affected and the bullets would spin out of group but that does not seem to happen at least at 300 yards?

 

[Oldtrader3]

I remember shooting 52 grain bullets in a .22-250 at 200 yard targets and any bullets the had any tip damage never got to the 200 yard target the yaw stresses ate and vaporized the bullet before it got there. Of course those bullets were travelling probably in excss of 3600 fps. On a humid day in georgia, you could see the vapor contrail of the disintergrated bullets.

Edited to correct all the dumb things that my fingers add which make me look illiterate, I really am not, illiterate that is, just my fumble fingered typing skills.

 

[rick smith]

If lead tips would melt off, which they don't, plastic tips wouldn't stand a chance. I have found plastic tips inside of deer I have killed. I have shot deformed tips out to 300yds with very little to no difference in accuracy or POI. Try this experiment, hold a lead tipped bullet over a flame and continue to hold the base of the bullet until the lead melts, now do the same with a ballistic tip.Rick.

 

[.300winmag]

[/quoteI am sorry if this sounds dumb, but I am not sure what you are referring to as the metplate. I tried to google it, but did not find a real good explanation. I do like you suggestion of shooting a set of group rounds single fed and a group of magazine deformed rounds. This would really tell me what will be if any difference to impact points.[/quote]

Sorry, I should have defined it, the metplate is simply the technical term for the tip of a bullet.

 

[Dr. Vette]

Better yet if you spell it correctly:

meplat

:mrgreen:

 

[.300winmag]

Better yet if you spell it correctly:

meplat

:mrgreen:

Didn't even realize I had done that the whole time. Thank you for pointing that out. My apologies But, we engineers do tend to get quite a bit of smack about spelling...I didn't help our case any here.

 

[Oldtrader3]

I was hoping that someone had some experince with tip deformity and would chime in. My problem with typing is not being an engineer but being a clutz!

 

[jason miller]

My m70 30-06 deforms the tips of both 180 Partitions and Ballistic Tips. Normally, the plastic tip just becomes slightly blunt, but sometimes it will shear a little piece off of it.

 

[CatskillCrawler]

I have shot damaged soft points vs undamaged soft points before and did not notice a discernible difference at 100 yds. I also shot a hollow point which was defective, leading edge of jacket was not uniform at the tip, and it became unstable before 100 yds.

My BLR chews up soft points and I would feel better if the protected points were available again

22-250 Speer 52gr HP with deformed tip @ 3680fps. The hole to the right of the center group is not a paper tear but the result of a keyhole. I noticed this defect when loading and figured I'd shoot it just to see what difference it would make.

 

[Oldtrader3]

I have noticed that .22-250's either keyhole or self destruct and never reach the paper at 200 yards if there is a tip defect.