Reloader 17 Powder

truck driver · Jun 14, 2017

I have been working with RL-17 in my 338Wm and have gotten good speed and accuracy with it in cool temps and up to around 70*F.

The other day I was at the range and it was around 80*F. I had already put 9 rounds down the barrel and had let it cool as much as it could between shots.
I wanted to do a velocity ladder looking for a node with the 210gr Swift Scirocco II.
I started out at 1.5grs below max but experienced a little bit of a problem and had very heavy bolt lift with the first shot so I stopped what I was doing and packed up to go home and pull the other bullets.

Has anyone experienced higher breach pressure using Swift bullets or RL 17 in warm temps.

The rifle and ammo was under cover and not in direct sun light.

AFG270 · Jun 14, 2017

TD, I worked up a load for my 300 wsm with RL 17 and 180g AB's about a month ago. I went up to a half gr over Nosler's max and well below Alliant's max before I had any pressure signs, then backed off a full gr. Ended up with an excellent load, .392" group at about 3050 fps. BUT the temperature was 57 degrees. It is in the 90's now, if I get a chance this week I will shoot it again and let you know. I would like to find out as well.

DrMike · Jun 14, 2017

The Scirocco has a longer bearing surface which can increase pressure significantly.

rjm158 · Jun 15, 2017

TD, I have used RL-17 extensively in working up 6.5 Creedmoor loads and so far have had no issues with this. My loads are generally a full grain below max with whichever bullet I'm loading and I've shot them in 80+ degree temps with no problems so far.

Just a guess, but Dr Mike might be on to something.

Ron

SJB358 · Jun 15, 2017

DrMike":3b1f5h29 said:
The Scirocco has a longer bearing surface which can increase pressure significantly.

Bingo!

For darned sure. I believe their copper is "stickier" as well. I know that is a bad word to describe it but yup, the Scirroco's make more pressure another bullet of the same weight.

And I have shot ALOT of RL17. I'd venture to say I have burned through 20lbs of the stuff since I started using it a few years back and it is an excellent powder and have not had any real problems at all with temp swings when it's warm/hot. It has done pretty well at 20-30 degrees as well.

What sorta speed did you get with the round you loaded?

TackDriver284 · Jun 15, 2017

TD, I personally think the RL 17 is a tad fast for the 210 Swift Scirrocco, its not a soft bullet like the Sierra GK or the Hornady ELD X, I would lean to try RL-19 instead. You may be getting more pressure with the faster burning powder like the 17 ( plus you won't push it fast like the 19 without getting pressure ) and you will get more velocity and less pressure with the 19. Just my opinion.

SJB358 · Jun 15, 2017

TackDriver284":2onpj7sp said:
TD, I personally think the RL 17 is a tad fast for the 210 Swift Scirrocco, its not a soft bullet like the Sierra GK or the Hornady ELD X, I would lean to try RL-19 instead. You may be getting more pressure with the faster burning powder like the 17 ( plus you won't push it fast like the 19 without getting pressure ) and you will get more velocity and less pressure with the 19. Just my opinion.

I will actually disagree with you there. 19 is good but 17 will consistently net less pressure for the same speeds as 19. At least from my rifles and mostly QL bears this out as well. Don't get me wrong, I like 19 a lot but in the 338 but 17 has been easier to load for speed than 19 in a couple 338's.

I say all of that kinda half in cause some lots of 19 are more like RL22 in burn rate and some are more like 17.

Cleveland48 · Jun 15, 2017

Used it a lot in a 6.5 Creedmoor with no issues. I read somewhere though that some have had problems with it pressure spiking.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

TackDriver284 · Jun 15, 2017

SJB358":3vgtkfj2 said:
TackDriver284":3vgtkfj2 said:

TD, I personally think the RL 17 is a tad fast for the 210 Swift Scirrocco, its not a soft bullet like the Sierra GK or the Hornady ELD X, I would lean to try RL-19 instead. You may be getting more pressure with the faster burning powder like the 17 ( plus you won't push it fast like the 19 without getting pressure ) and you will get more velocity and less pressure with the 19. Just my opinion.

Click to expand...

I will actually disagree with you there. 19 is good but 17 will consistently net less pressure for the same speeds as 19. At least from my rifles and mostly QL bears this out as well. Don't get me wrong, I like 19 a lot but in the 338 but 17 has been easier to load for speed than 19 in a couple 338's.

I say all of that kinda half in cause some lots of 19 are more like RL22 in burn rate and some are more like 17.

SJB, don't take my opinions seriously.

I personally have never shot a .338 Win Mag but I have seen RL 17 create pressure spikes when at close to book max (or more) in other smaller calibers due to fast burn and problem went away with slower burning powder like RL19 and RL22. I would just use RL 17 for lighter bullets only, and RL 19 / 22 for the medium to heavy bullets. That is true that some powder lots act differently at times.

EDITED: SJB, I misinterpreted on my reply, and I rephrased it. Sorry about that. :?

truck driver · Jun 15, 2017

SJB358":3i60tq41 said:
DrMike":3i60tq41 said:

The Scirocco has a longer bearing surface which can increase pressure significantly.

Click to expand...

Bingo!

For darned sure. I believe their copper is "stickier" as well. I know that is a bad word to describe it but yup, the Scirroco's make more pressure another bullet of the same weight.

And I have shot ALOT of RL17. I'd venture to say I have burned through 20lbs of the stuff since I started using it a few years back and it is an excellent powder and have not had any real problems at all with temp swings when it's warm/hot. It has done pretty well at 20-30 degrees as well.

What sorta speed did you get with the round you loaded?

I only fired the one and got 3160fps. I took the rest of them apart.

TackDriver284 · Jun 15, 2017

truck driver":jyclsy56 said:
SJB358":jyclsy56 said:

DrMike":jyclsy56 said:

The Scirocco has a longer bearing surface which can increase pressure significantly.

Click to expand...

Bingo!

For darned sure. I believe their copper is "stickier" as well. I know that is a bad word to describe it but yup, the Scirroco's make more pressure another bullet of the same weight.

And I have shot ALOT of RL17. I'd venture to say I have burned through 20lbs of the stuff since I started using it a few years back and it is an excellent powder and have not had any real problems at all with temp swings when it's warm/hot. It has done pretty well at 20-30 degrees as well.

What sorta speed did you get with the round you loaded?

Click to expand...

I only fired the one and got 3160fps. I took the rest of them apart.

What is the powder charge if I may ask?

AFG270 · Jun 15, 2017

Just shot my 300 wsm load with RL 17. It was 57 degrees when I last shot it and right at 100 degrees today. Only 6 fps average for 3 shots higher today, after letting the ammo and rifle adjust to the outside temperature in the shade.

I believe DrMike and Scotty are correct.

EastTNHunter · Jun 15, 2017

Don't know what barrel length, but 3160 is smoking fast for a 338WM with 210s

SJB358 · Jun 15, 2017

truck driver":1upfqvmj said:
SJB358":1upfqvmj said:

DrMike":1upfqvmj said:

The Scirocco has a longer bearing surface which can increase pressure significantly.

Click to expand...

Bingo!

For darned sure. I believe their copper is "stickier" as well. I know that is a bad word to describe it but yup, the Scirroco's make more pressure another bullet of the same weight.

And I have shot ALOT of RL17. I'd venture to say I have burned through 20lbs of the stuff since I started using it a few years back and it is an excellent powder and have not had any real problems at all with temp swings when it's warm/hot. It has done pretty well at 20-30 degrees as well.

What sorta speed did you get with the round you loaded?

Click to expand...

I only fired the one and got 3160fps. I took the rest of them apart.

Oh yeah, that's a scorcher!

truck driver · Jun 15, 2017

TackDriver284":bio7lujj said:
truck driver":bio7lujj said:

SJB358":bio7lujj said:

DrMike":bio7lujj said:

The Scirocco has a longer bearing surface which can increase pressure significantly.

Click to expand...

Bingo!

For darned sure. I believe their copper is "stickier" as well. I know that is a bad word to describe it but yup, the Scirroco's make more pressure another bullet of the same weight.

And I have shot ALOT of RL17. I'd venture to say I have burned through 20lbs of the stuff since I started using it a few years back and it is an excellent powder and have not had any real problems at all with temp swings when it's warm/hot. It has done pretty well at 20-30 degrees as well.

What sorta speed did you get with the round you loaded?

Click to expand...

I only fired the one and got 3160fps. I took the rest of them apart.

Click to expand...

What is the powder charge if I may ask?

Max QL powder prediction was 75.3grs for 64kpsi instead of dropping back to 73.8 ( 1.5grs ) I tried a short cut to save powder and went to 74.2grs which should have put me in the middle of a node so I thought But it must have peaked out in my rifle. I had safely shot 74.2grs with a Nosler PT and didn't expect it to peak or spike with the Swift.

TackDriver284 · Jun 15, 2017

Do you think you may be a tad over max which may cause the sticky bolt? 3.8 grains over. I know you mentioned you did fine with the Partitions, but different bullets may react differently in pressure.

https://load-data.nosler.com/load-data/ ... er-magnum/

DrMike · Jun 15, 2017

TackDriver284":2n46rqoh said:
Do you think you may be a tad over max which may cause the sticky bolt? 3.8 grains over. I know you mentioned you did fine with the Partitions, but different bullets may react differently in pressure.

https://load-data.nosler.com/load-data/ ... er-magnum/

Code:

Cartridge          : .338 Win Mag.
Bullet             : .338, 210, Swift Scirocco
Useable Case Capaci: 73.634 grain H2O = 4.781 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.340 inch = 84.84 mm
Barrel Length      : 24.0 inch = 609.6 mm
Powder             : Alliant Reloder-17

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 1.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step    Fill. Charge   Vel.  Energy   Pmax   Pmuz  Prop.Burnt B_Time
 %       %    Grains   fps   ft.lbs    psi    psi      %        ms

-10.0   94    66.78   2807    3673   50377   9687     99.9    1.220
-09.0   95    67.52   2836    3751   52167   9738    100.0    1.201
-08.0   96    68.26   2866    3830   54026   9783    100.0    1.182  ! Near Maximum !
-07.0   97    69.01   2895    3909   55957   9825    100.0    1.164  ! Near Maximum !
-06.0   98    69.75   2924    3988   57960   9867    100.0    1.146  ! Near Maximum !
-05.0   99    70.49   2954    4068   60052   9908    100.0    1.128  ! Near Maximum !
-04.0  100    71.23   2983    4148   62222   9948    100.0    1.111  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
-03.0  101    71.97   3011    4229   64478   9987    100.0    1.094  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
-02.0  102    72.72   3040    4310   66829  10025    100.0    1.077  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
-01.0  103    73.46   3069    4391   69274  10062    100.0    1.061  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+00.0  104    74.20   3097    4473   71822  10098    100.0    1.045  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+01.0  105    74.94   3126    4555   74473  10134    100.0    1.029  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+02.0  106    75.68   3154    4638   77240  10168    100.0    1.013  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+03.0  107    76.43   3182    4722   80125  10201    100.0    0.998  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+04.0  108    77.17   3210    4806   83135  10233    100.0    0.983  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+05.0  109    77.91   3239    4891   86275  10263    100.0    0.968  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba    104    74.20   3197    4766   87792   9707    100.0    0.973  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba    104    74.20   2942    4036   57824  10593     99.4    1.141  ! Near Maximum !

Cartridge          : .338 Win Mag.
Bullet             : .338, 210, Nosler PART SP 16337
Useable Case Capaci: 77.827 grain H2O = 5.053 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.340 inch = 84.84 mm
Barrel Length      : 24.0 inch = 609.6 mm
Powder             : Alliant Reloder-17

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 1.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step    Fill. Charge   Vel.  Energy   Pmax   Pmuz  Prop.Burnt B_Time
 %       %    Grains   fps   ft.lbs    psi    psi      %        ms

-10.0   88    66.42   2715    3437   44118   9884     99.6    1.294
-09.0   89    67.16   2744    3511   45604   9954     99.8    1.274
-08.0   90    67.90   2773    3585   47141  10018     99.9    1.255
-07.0   91    68.63   2801    3660   48734  10077    100.0    1.236
-06.0   92    69.37   2830    3734   50382  10130    100.0    1.217
-05.0   93    70.11   2858    3810   52091  10178    100.0    1.199
-04.0   94    70.85   2887    3885   53861  10224    100.0    1.181  ! Near Maximum !
-03.0   95    71.59   2915    3961   55694  10269    100.0    1.164  ! Near Maximum !
-02.0   96    72.32   2943    4037   57594  10313    100.0    1.147  ! Near Maximum !
-01.0   97    73.06   2970    4114   59567  10357    100.0    1.130  ! Near Maximum !
+00.0   98    73.80   2998    4191   61612  10399    100.0    1.113  ! Near Maximum !
+01.0   99    74.54   3025    4268   63734  10441    100.0    1.097  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+02.0  100    75.28   3053    4346   65937  10482    100.0    1.081  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+03.0  101    76.01   3080    4424   68222  10522    100.0    1.065  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+04.0  102    76.75   3107    4502   70597  10561    100.0    1.050  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+05.0  103    77.49   3134    4581   73062  10600    100.0    1.035  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba     98    73.80   3104    4493   75240   9995    100.0    1.033  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba     98    73.80   2834    3745   49682  10784     98.7    1.219

JD338 · Jun 15, 2017

Roger

3160 fps is smokin'. FWIW, my 338 RUM is pushing the 210 gr PT at 3200 fps.

JD338

SJB358 · Jun 16, 2017

Well, QL does bear it out pretty well. Good to note as I have a couple of boxes of Scirroco's ready for the 338..

DrMike · Jun 16, 2017

The Scirocco is a fine bullet. It can be touchy, primarily due to the longer bearing surface, I suspect. Still, it is a fine bullet that can perform exceptionally well.

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