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 Post subject: shotgun ( or two ) for granddaughter
PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2019 2:59 pm 

Joined: Wed Jun 18, 2014 5:55 am
Posts: 1056
She likes to both waterfowl and upland hunt. To date she has hunted Geese, Ducks, Cranes, pheasant, quail, grouse, ptarmigan and chukar. She enjoyed hunting waterfowl but says her favorite is pheasant and ptarmigan ( she also said she will never hunt chukar again lol )

I am thinking either a Syren ( for women ) or a Connecticut ( made for her ) Thinking a 12 gauge and a double .

She is 5' 11" and not a heavy set girl

This will be for hunting not sporting.

So gentlemen

1. shotgun manufacturer ?
2. shotgun gauge ?
3. shotgun style ?


what would you or did you get your daughter or grand daughter ?

Thank you!


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 Post subject: Re: shotgun ( or two ) for granddaughter
PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2019 3:10 pm 

Joined: Thu May 12, 2005 5:21 pm
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Location: Idaho
My suggestion would be a 20 gauge semi-automatic. I personally like the Beretta semis as they use some of the gas pressure to cycle the action which will help with felt recoil.

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 Post subject: Re: shotgun ( or two ) for granddaughter
PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2019 3:52 pm 
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Location: East Coast
Wish you would have said something before I traded the Beretta last week. It could have had the stock cut down to fit here and would have been just what the doctor ordered. A nice side by side or over under should do nicely. Light 12ga loads or a 20ga 3" mag wouldn't beat here up too bad with a good recoil pad and it isn't like she would shoot a 100 rounds a day out of it unless she took up sporting clays, trap or skeet and then she would need a different gun any way.


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 Post subject: Re: shotgun ( or two ) for granddaughter
PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2019 4:54 pm 
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Joined: Thu Nov 04, 2004 12:08 pm
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Location: Rockford, MI
April,
I would suggest your granddaughter go to a good gun shop and get fitted for the shotguns. She is a pretty tall young lady and having the proper fit, in my opinion, is the most important element for her enjoyment and success.

JD338

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 Post subject: Re: shotgun ( or two ) for granddaughter
PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2019 5:15 pm 

Joined: Mon Nov 25, 2013 8:27 pm
Posts: 1274
I would look hard at either the Benelli Ethos or Ultralight in 28 gauge. (I am going for the Ultralight as I will predominantly hunt grouse, ptarmigan, partridge, perhaps chukar, and hopefully pheasant someday. Most of my shots wil be less than 40 yards.)
Beautiful shotguns, light, handy, and very little recoil.

The Ethos is also chambered to the new Fiocchi 3" loads and has been used successfully on pheasant and larger gamebirds and ducks with #6 shot out over 50 yards. Also comes with shim kits so that the stock can be adjusted for fit.

There is a thread on here about the 28 gauge and the Benelli Ultralight (which is only chambered for the 2 3/4"). As she does want to hunt larger birds, I would recommend the Ethos with 3" capability.
There are some great videos online (Benelli and Youtube sites) that give reviews by field writers and women champions in shotgunning sports.


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 Post subject: Re: shotgun ( or two ) for granddaughter
PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2019 5:46 pm 

Joined: Wed Jun 18, 2014 5:55 am
Posts: 1056
Thank you for the replies, some good suggestions

When she was in Spain earlier and went Ptarmigan hunting she used a ladies Syren, which now make a shotgun, specifically for women, as that one was. She liked it and so I am also considering that one also. Do any of you have one for a lady in your family ?

Gil, I agree those Benelli's are nice and I definitely like the 28 gauge, but if I went with getting her a 28 gauge something, I would probably get her two. A 28 and 12, as she enjoyed Geese and Crane hunting. One of the reasons I like the double is it eliminates bending over to pick up the hulls or even needing to look for them---thank you


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 Post subject: Re: shotgun ( or two ) for granddaughter
PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2019 6:54 pm 

Joined: Mon Dec 26, 2016 7:35 pm
Posts: 1126
Syrens are really the ladies brand of Caesar Guerinis. My daughter in law loves my CG. I think she’d love it more if it fit her better. I’d recommend that one.

That said, Gil said what came to mind for me first, Benelli Ethos. I have the performance shop super sport (carbon fiber silver mesh. At 5# or 6#, you’re not going to find a faster swinging easy to carry all day gun.

Looking for a sr. Grandkid? Lol.


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 Post subject: shotgun ( or two ) for granddaughter
PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2019 7:01 pm 

Joined: Mon Dec 26, 2016 7:35 pm
Posts: 1126
One more thing April, I bought my boys a pair of Beretta DU dinner guns. The 2011 guns. They both love those guns and take great care of them. They love to see the nice walnut glisten in the sun.


That’s one of those distinctive guns. It’s not just a beretta, but a Ducks Unlimited Dinner gun, I think one is number 158 and the other is like 230. Here’s one that sold recently. I paid about 1000 each.
https://mobile.gunauction.com/displayit ... m=14651417



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 Post subject: Re: shotgun ( or two ) for granddaughter
PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2019 7:28 pm 

Joined: Mon Feb 27, 2006 7:09 pm
Posts: 4554
Location: Western Montana
April for Christmas I got a CZ Woodcock .12 gauge over/under shotgun. It has beautiful wood and I really like how it shoots. So fat I've used it shoot ducks, pheasants, and quail. It handles nice and carries very nice. For her I think I would suggest a 20 gauge.

https://t9c6w9j5.stackpathcdn.com/hamme ... rdened.png

Take a look at this picture. I love the stock style, look, and feel. I also enjoy the case color hardening as it adds something as well.

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 Post subject: Re: shotgun ( or two ) for granddaughter
PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2019 8:00 pm 

Joined: Sat Oct 23, 2010 8:04 am
Posts: 2390
Location: Delta Junction, AK
I think with all the species listed- cranes all the way down to quail and chukars- you're really talking two shotguns. You could make a twelve do it all, but you're lugging too much gun for much of it. At 5'11, she's likely going to fit any shotgun on the market, although a custom fit one is very , very nice to have.

For the upland stuff- that Syren sounds nice in a 20 or a 28ga or a Benelli Ultralight in the same gauge if she prefers an auto.

For the marsh- head straight to a Benelli autoloader in 12ga. My buddy hunts ducks with an O/U and curses skyward at fleeing ducks with an empty gun pretty much three or four times an outing.

I'm babysitting a couple of shotguns for another buddy- a gorgeous UL28 and a Super Black Eagle 3. I could do anything with those two I would ever do with a shotgun!


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 Post subject: Re: shotgun ( or two ) for granddaughter
PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2019 8:15 pm 
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Posts: 3112
I know next to nothing about shotguns....but the advice of a good friend who shot trap competitively for years and has taught more people to shoot than anyone I know...advises a properly sized 12 ga for young shooters. His advice is that the little bit of additional weight and options in 12 ga when coupled with lighter loads for practice are well worth it. Lighter 20's or worse a 410 generate sharper recoil that make it hard for a shooter to develop or maintain good form and habbits. In his opinion anyway.

But...you are better qualified to judge than I and obviously know your granddaughter well. It just seems like sound wisdom to me. I have poor balance and must shoot sitting, so way back when my father opted for a Win. gas auto in 20 Ga. for my 16th birthday. I still cant hit squat with a shot gun,,,, :) Many hours of fun with it and Dad and Grandpa though. Wish the same for you! CL

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 Post subject: Re: shotgun ( or two ) for granddaughter
PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2019 9:09 pm 

Joined: Mon Nov 25, 2013 8:27 pm
Posts: 1274
A 12 ga and a 28 ga would definitely cover all of her needs.

Your liking of the O/U for its ejectors and catching of the hulls has merit. But might not be as big a deal in a duck blind. Hunting geese in the fields may be a different thing when it comes to cleaning up afterwards, but is just part of the whole experience.

Has she used O/U's? Or other shotguns such as pumps and semi-autos? Which does she prefer? And for what birds?

Susan is 5' 9 1/2" tall and really likes the Remington 1100 Sporting 28 that we have. She is "having a blast!" hunting grouse with it so far, and it fits her well. The wood on this Remington is very nice, and sure does glisten in the sun. She is now thinking that we both need our own 28's and that the Remington should be hers! LOL (This after she said we didn't need two and sold her Remington 870 Express in 28 to DrMike, unfired. I think it waas her ploy to get the prettier gun! LOL)


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 Post subject: Re: shotgun ( or two ) for granddaughter
PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2019 9:21 pm 

Joined: Wed Jun 18, 2014 5:55 am
Posts: 1056
Mark, that is a very nice shotgun--your boys are very fortunate --those are sweet shotguns

David, congratulations, that is also a nice shotgun. The picture is very nice as I am sure, is the shotgun.

Cloverleaf--thank you sir

Hodgeman and Gil--nailed it I believe. ( get a semi auto 12 and a 20 gauge double ) After talking to several people today including you gentlemen and my granddaughter, her mother, my son, etc---I think, not sure yet, but I think I am going to buy her two ( which is what Mike and Gil suggested in there post ) A Syren XLRS Waterfowler ( they are 12 gauges) and a Syren Tempio light (20 gauge) The 20 gauge is what she used when in Spain and she told me "grandma this is the first shotgun I like better than your Connecticut )

I am still toying with whether to go 20 or 28 gauge, the weight of the shotgun is the same and she can handle the recoil of the 12, plus 20 gauge shell's should be easier to find when she travels--. am I wrong, is the 28 just as popular as the 20 these days ?

Thanks guys. Gil, you might be right about Dr Mike lol---and Susan lol


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 Post subject: Re: shotgun ( or two ) for granddaughter
PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2019 9:38 pm 

Joined: Sat Oct 23, 2010 8:04 am
Posts: 2390
Location: Delta Junction, AK
Europe wrote:
I am still toying with whether to go 20 or 28 gauge, the weight of the shotgun is the same and she can handle the recoil of the 12, plus 20 gauge shell's should be easier to find when she travels--. am I wrong, is the 28 just as popular as the 20 these days ?


The 28 kind of comes and goes in popularity- currently in vogue. It has a lot of panache and is a dream to shoot at grouse.

But-If she's going to travel with it, a 20ga makes a lot more sense- easy to find shells for and there's a bunch of options for feeding it. Even in well stocked gun shops, the 28ga can be mighty slim pickings.

Edit- I did see that Syren has a two barrel set...one frame and both a 20 and a 28 barrel set! Perfect!


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 Post subject: Re: shotgun ( or two ) for granddaughter
PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2019 5:16 am 

Joined: Wed Jun 18, 2014 5:55 am
Posts: 1056
Mike, I had actually placed an order for a Syren for her after she was here and hunted with one and then put a hold on the order, as I felt I reacted to quickly to her reaction to using one when she was here ( In Spain ). She loved that shotgun which was the 20 gauge double. But then I started thinking how much she likes to hunt waterfowl and after more thought and my discussions like we are doing here, I am leaning toward the two I mentioned in my post above, a 12 gauge semi auto and a 20 gauge double.

But Mike and Gil suggesting Bennelli and their semi auto operating system, which may not be as forgiving recoil wise but it is certainly an easier system to keep clean and probably lasts longer without much maintenance ----has me thinking --maybe I will go ahead with the order ( which is on hold ) for the Syren double and look at the Benelli auto for her.

Mike, nice try but no cigar, did you see the price of the 20/28 two barrel gun. I can get the auto and the double for that price.

Guys a little information and some of you ( like Dr Mike ) already knows all this. I m over 80 in failing health, thanks to my husbands foresight when he was alive I am not wondering where my next meal is coming from. I have a son and a daughter and they both hunt, and my grandsons also hunt but it is not a passion with them. Just like only this granddaughter wanted to sail with me---we got close over the years. So all of you have shotguns that are as expensive as the Syren and it may sound eccentric to get two of them, but I can't take it with me and if you add up the cost of all your shotguns it will add up to more than the cost of these two. So she has two expensive ones instead of 6 to 8 that is a tad less expensive, maybe! --many here will have more tied up in shotguns than she will, Why did I feel I needed to say all this--you guessed it, we have a coupe of fellows here that felt they had the right to tell me how to spend my money--they dont. But out of courtesy to those who are seriously trying help, ( and I thank you ) I wanted to explain a bit.


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 Post subject: Re: shotgun ( or two ) for granddaughter
PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2019 9:44 am 

Joined: Wed Nov 08, 2006 2:49 pm
Posts: 32030
Location: Northern British Columbia
April,

I intend to so live that when I die, my last cheque will bounce! :mrgreen: That means spending it all. (y)

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 Post subject: Re: shotgun ( or two ) for granddaughter
PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2019 10:46 am 

Joined: Wed Jun 18, 2014 5:55 am
Posts: 1056
DrMike wrote:
April,

I intend to so live that when I die, my last cheque will bounce! :mrgreen: That means spending it all. (y)


Excellent philosophy Dr Mike lol love it!

Has anyone here used the Franchi's Affinity Catalyst ( semi auto designed for females ) ?

Does anyone one here want to comment on Inertia vs gas in the semi's ?

Assuming anyone can log on to the forum --


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 Post subject: Re: shotgun ( or two ) for granddaughter
PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2019 1:25 pm 
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Joined: Sat May 26, 2018 12:42 am
Posts: 247
Location: Germany, Lower Saxony
April, I still haven't dropped the idea of being adopted!
At 5'11 she should be more than able to.handle a 12 gauge auto.loader for hunting all day.

Might be too much gun for some occasions, but with the right shell it will do ok.

If you have money to spare, a 20 gauge would pair perfectly.

I use 12 gauge for all shotgun hunting and just change shells depending on prey.


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 Post subject: Re: shotgun ( or two ) for granddaughter
PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2019 1:55 pm 

Joined: Mon Dec 26, 2016 7:35 pm
Posts: 1126
April, we love your passion for your grandkids, and we are very appreciative they were raised right. I have to thank my wife for my CG. I was about to pick up a used Browning OU and she asked me if this was a journey or destination gun...at that point I had the blessing I needed to buy the CG vs Browning. She definitely knows the boys love their DU guns. I wish more DU guys would use their dinner guns. To me guns are tools, not decorations.

Interia vs gas, I can’t feel any appreciable difference. Cleaning the Benelli is a dream. The gas ones (beretta) get dirty and are messy to clean. I probably had to help the boys the first 4 times in reassembly mainly to get the gas port right. I’d buy the Benelli every day given a choice.

That said, I know many happy gas gun owners including both my boys, neither has asked for a second shotgun after getting the nice DU guns.

I should mention what sold me on the Benelli the first time. The Comfort Tech Pad is contoured to the appropriate shoulder. I could shoulder it from waist high to full mount with eyes closed. Once it was up, I’d open my eyes and wham. 25 for 25!it was perfectly aligned with my dominant eye. A standard shoulder pad doesn’t find its home as consistently with eyes closed.

That said, who closes their eyes while shouldering the gun. No one. But if your on a bird on wing, the last thing you want to think about is getting the gun up. It has to be automatic.

So truth telling, while I’d buy a Benelli everyday, it would always have a comfort tech pad.

Anyone else as nutty as me?


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 Post subject: Re: shotgun ( or two ) for granddaughter
PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2019 3:31 pm 

Joined: Mon Nov 25, 2013 8:27 pm
Posts: 1274
All of the reviews and atricles that I have read on the Benelli Ethos (12 ga and 28 ga over the past year have been very good, and all stated that it was a very clean operating system and required very little cleaning, even after a lot of shooting. (As someone who would rather be shooting than cleaning, this is an appealling benefit of the inertia vs gas.)


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 Post subject: Re: shotgun ( or two ) for granddaughter
PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2019 5:19 am 

Joined: Wed Jun 18, 2014 5:55 am
Posts: 1056
speak now if anyone has anymore thoughts as I am headed toward, "recording" the Syren 20gauge double and placing an order for the Benelli 12 gauge semi-auto

I want to thank everyone who responded, it is appreciated, as everyone who responded offered food for thought and it was appreciated

Mark, your sons are very fortunate to have the parents they have, well done! My granddaughter and two grandsons are adults ( my granddaughter being he youngest of the three ) and my oldest grandson and his wife has already made me a great, grandmother--twice. Love them all.

Gil, Mike, thank you


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 Post subject: Re: shotgun ( or two ) for granddaughter
PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2019 10:21 am 

Joined: Sat Oct 23, 2010 8:04 am
Posts: 2390
Location: Delta Junction, AK
mjcmichigan wrote:
Interia vs gas, I can’t feel any appreciable difference. Cleaning the Benelli is a dream. The gas ones (beretta) get dirty and are messy to clean.... I’d buy the Benelli every day given a choice.

Anyone else as nutty as me?


I am!

I really like the inertia operating system. I'll add, not only does it stay clean when shooting high volumes- it also works in the marsh. Since I'm a hunter and rarely shoot a shotgun at targets- that gun is very forgiving of typically nasty water fowling conditions. Ice, mud, grunge seem to have little effect..I dunked mine in the swamp three times this year and once barrel down in the muck. It was pretty simple to sluice it out, shake it off and keep on shooting.


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 Post subject: shotgun ( or two ) for granddaughter
PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2019 5:17 pm 

Joined: Mon Dec 26, 2016 7:35 pm
Posts: 1126
Mike, that would be a cool commercial! So they eat grunge too!

April, make it so!


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 Post subject: Re: shotgun ( or two ) for granddaughter
PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2019 10:45 am 

Joined: Tue Sep 28, 2010 4:43 am
Posts: 50
I’m a little late coming to this thread but have been following it with many thoughts that I think would be of value to the topic. I read Europe’s last post and agree with her latest decision.
I married a woman 15 years ago that came from a male centric family that excluded her from the “man” activities that she wanted to participate in. When we got married, she wanted to have a pointing dog and hunt birds. She was starting from scratch with firearms, although she had shot. At the time, we lived just a mile from a pheasant preserve where I had a connection and were 5 minutes from a trap club with 5-stand. I am primarily a rifleman but really like hunting birds over pointing dogs. I knew enough about shotguns to know that the only way to buy one is to shoulder it and see how it falls in. So we went to Cabela’s and she handled a bunch of guns. We ended up walking out with Benelli Supersport 20 gauge. She liked the bling and the shotgun is still with us and remains one of her go to shotguns. It began a series of Benelli acquisitions that was interspersed with a Connecticut Shotgun 20 ga Launch edition, a Fausti 16 ga O/U, a Beretta 20 ga Onyx, and on and on. It got to the point that I couldn’t take her into a gun store and leave her alone with the checkbook.
She also has a Benelli Super Black Eagle with a second rifled slug barrel and a 12 ga Cordoba. One of her rifles is a Benelli R1 300 Win Mag. I have an 12 ga M2 Tactical, a 12 ga Cordoba and a 20 ga M2. I am a staunch Benelli advocate. I have had gas operated semi’s in the past and serviced some others that family and friends have. The recoil operated Benelli system is the most reliable and durable semi-operated shotgun system available. Gas guns require a lot more maintenance and are not as reliable. At one point, I had a Beretta 1201FP which was essentially the Benelli system.
I am also a believer in the cryogenic barrels and chokes. They clean easier and what patterning that I did, indicated a better pattern density. The longer choke tube systems seem to help the shot column not deform as much. We shot the Cordobas in a trap league so we have some sense for the reliability and effectiveness of the choke system.
Another advantage of many of the Benelli’s is the ability to change the length of pull and comb height easily. The stocks are also adjustable for pitch and cast by changing the supplied shims. These features ended up being the reason that we got the R1 for my wife. I learned the hard way that women don’t hold rifles and shotguns the same way that a man does. It took me several attempts to find out how to mount a riflescope for my wife. I think Weatherby and Savage are thinking ahead and looking to the changing demographics of our shooter population today by offering rifle stocks better suited to women. Guerini’s Syren also recognizes that women “are not the same as us”.
I love Italian shotguns, and not just the Benelli’s. We have a Fausti, I had Guerini Woodlander, and we still have a Beretta. Over the years, I have had several Browning Citori’s, which are not bad shotguns but don’t have the same fine feel of the Italian guns.
As far as gauge goes, I agree that one gun is not optimum. A 12 gauge is kind of a given for waterfowl class birds. For upland I would go with the 20 gauge. I like the 28 gauge a lot and currently have a Browning 525 in 28 that fits me well. The cost and availability of 20 gauge ammo versus 28 gauge is one factor to consider. I load the 28 and the 16 ga just for economy. I witnessed my wife make some pretty long shots on South Dakota prairie pheasants with her Supersport 20 ga shooting #5’s. The 28 works for pen raised preserve pheasants and chukars over a pointer but I kind of like my 28 better for ruffed grouse. We have found that prairie roosters mandate a stout load of 5’s out of a 12 gauge.
So to end this post, most of what I would recommend has already been said. The best scenario is for her to try the gun first. Sounds like that was done with the Syren. Again, I agree with Europe’s final decision. I just wish that I would not have stumbled on to this shotgun category and read about the Benelli 28 gauge Ultralight. It caused me to go pick one up and now I am conflicted about selling my Citori 525 28 to get one. Wish I could have both. I am waiting for Benelli to bring out a 16 gauge M2 or Ultralight that I could not resist.


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 Post subject: Re: shotgun ( or two ) for granddaughter
PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2019 12:12 pm 

Joined: Mon Nov 25, 2013 8:27 pm
Posts: 1274
Great post walkinhorseman!
Love to hear from those who have experienced these things first hand...very valuable insight.
The experience of the difference in the various firearms and the learnings from getting the wife into the sport and learning what works/doesn't work for her.

Didn't mean to cause confliction between your Citori 525 28 ga and a Benelli Ultralight 28!!...but does add confidence and affirmation in my own decision to go this route (seconded by another who is babysitting one in AK!). I have come close to purchasing other used 28 gauge shotguns this winter (other older Benellis, Brownings, etc.) but keep thinking, get the one I want...buy once, buy right!
Seriously considered the Ethos, but as mentioned above, will mostly be used for grouse. And I have never seen any of the Fiocchi 3" shells anywhere in western Canada. Can order, but would only be used incidentally for prairie pheasant, while hunting antelope in southeastern Alberta (about 15 hours from where I live). I have been lucky in acquiring flats of 28 ga ammo at reasonable prices ($10-$11/box, as compared to buying singles from $18-$30/box found in most stores) and have a good supply on hand. Have found a used MEC for loading the 28 and am considering gettin it.


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