Townsend Whelen’s Best Cartridges List

[JD338]

Boy, that does sound quite versatile. Never owned a Roberts but have admired from afar a few times. Amazing what we did when we didn’t have a safe load of great rifles.

I'll give you an assist with load development for a 257 Roberts and 115 gr BT's.

 

[filmjunkie4ever]

That is absolutely a winning combo JD, tell us please, what is the recipe?

 

[JD338]

That is absolutely a winning combo JD, tell us please, what is the recipe?

This load was worked up using quick load data and is safe in my rifle. You will need bto work up for another rifle. Note that my rifle is a Remington 700 Classic long/magnum action which allows for a much longer coal.

257 Roberts ++P
115 gr BT
49.0 grs RL22
Nosler case
Federal GM210M primer
COAL 2.900"
MV 3136 fps
ES 18
SD 9
Group is 0.383" c/c

JD338

 

[filmjunkie4ever]

Wowza that is smoking! That's .25-06 hot-loaded velocity and it still shoots amazing too!
No worries about the workup etc. I currently am one of the sad sacks that doesn't own a .257 Roberts.

 

[AFG270]

This load was worked up using quick load data and is safe in my rifle. You will need bto work up for another rifle. Note that my rifle is a Remington 700 Classic long/magnum action which allows for a much longer coal.

257 Roberts ++P
115 gr BT
49.0 grs RL22
Nosler case
Federal GM210M primer
COAL 2.900"
MV 3136 fps
ES 18
SD 9
Group is 0.383" c/c

JD338

That is smoking, JD! I'm getting 3100 fps average with my 24" 25-06 with that bullet and RL26. Very accurate as well.

 

[JD338]

One of our favorite Marines helped me with the load development using RL22 and a COAL of 2.900" which allows for more case capacity.
Case life is pretty good too!

JD338

 

[salmonchaser]

Gotta give that a try, think thats faster then my 100 grain Ballistic tips out of my Roberts.

 

[RL338]

257 Roberts ++P
115 gr BT
49.0 grs RL22
Nosler case
Federal GM210M primer
COAL 2.900"
MV 3136 fps
ES 18
SD 9
Group is 0.383" c/c

The secret must be the ++P

 

[longrangehunter]

I realize this is an older thread, and love seeing the individual cartridges for the different game animals! But I realized that I seemed to just hunt with whatever was working really well for me at the time, and used that exclusively until I moved onto something else to hunt with after a few years or in some cases even longer…. Or the complete opposite and it was a one and done thing…… Like the Browning 243 BLR that I took a Northern WT Buck at 20’ feet with 100 grain Partitions in the Upper Peninsula of Michigan along Lake Superior that I was tracking. I grunted him in from his bedding spot behind a lot of deadfall during a snowstorm right out in front of me. It was one of my all time favorite memories hunting and taking game at such close quarters that is always so satisfying when it comes together.

My Winchester M70 .264WM was a do anything weapon at one point in my life for a long time. Various 35 Whelen’s until I found the best shooting one at Big Bear in Montana on a ‘89 Mauser FN in a nice wood stock that eventually went into a HighTech synthetic stock.

My Jarrett Remington 700 280 Ackley Improved did everything well when I was doing the justice it deserved and not messing up the stalk!

Another one was an Ultimate One Bansner 8.59 Galaxy that saw a lot of different territory for a long stretch of time until I felt I didn’t want to rely on finding that brass go extinct.

Which today I feel is super important that there’s a good number of suppliers who manufacture brass for a cartridge design.

Which is why I decided that if I wanted another hunting rifle I’d build a 25/7PRC just because of the great brass out there, and it not just fading away at least for the time being. And who doesn’t love a fast 25 cal. in a lightweight rifle that won’t beat you to death trying to do what it’s supposed to do.

What’s kinda odd is the only gun that I still use since I was old enough to hold a gun is a Remington 870 WingMaster 16 ga. when I was nine years old. The 870 Magnum 12 ga. I bought years later at Kmart I still use too, and see no reason to replace either.

The 16 ga. took a Tom Turkey today since I thought why not use it!?! It’s still a favorite for a lighter weight gun to carry around, it’s not like taking a Turkey at close range needs a Magnum round to get the job done!

HECK, if it was up to me I’d rather shoot it in the head with my .22 pistol if I could use it for that purpose! Unfortunately the F&G thinks most people need a shotgun for hunting small game, like rabbits, when a .22 rifle is well worth the extra enjoyment of success in taking such game.

 

[wvbuckbuster]

Thought that looked like a purple 16ga shell with the picture of your turkey. I had asked. Like the 16ga.

 

[grry10]

Best All-around - .30-06 Springfield
Best Whitetail Deer -7x57
Best Mule Deer - 280
Best Elk - 300 RUM
Best Moose - 338-06 Ackley Improved
Best Grizzy/BB - .348 Winchester
Best Black Bear - 35 Whelen
Best Antelope - 257 Ackley Improved
Best Sheep/Mountain Goat - 280
Best Caribou - 280

 

[grry10]

Before I turned my 722 Remington .257 Roberts into a .257 Ackley Improved. This load was a three shot group with 100 grain NBT, 43.5 grains of IMR-4350, Federal 210M primers, and JBA brass. The load was never shot through a chronograph.

 

[JD338]

That'll work. Nice shooting!

JD338

 

[PJGunner]

I'll admit I've killed the most game (deer) with the 30-06. The .308 is probably in second place. Only one antelope to my name and was with the .270 although there are a few deer to the .270's credit. On elk, one 30-06, one .300 Win. Mag. and six with the .35 Whelen.
The two cartridges I was doing work with before the car wreck sidelined me were the .257 Roberts and the 7x57. I'd acquired the 7x57 first so most load work up has been done for hunting load. The .257 though came too late before the crack up so not much was done with that one. I have two rifles in .257 Roberts, a Ruger #1B and a Winchester m70 Featherweight. The #1B came with six boxes of Norma factory ammo which I guess is no longer made. I could find any info on Norma's site. I shot up all but six rounds from one box of that Norma ammo to get a feel of how that #1 likes to be handled from the bench. I'll just add that it shot groups at mostly one inch or slightly less. I have that six left over rounds that I'd like to try in the Featherweight. So far it hasn't done well using handloads. In fact it [lain just doesn't shoot worth a damn. I've tried 100 and 120 gr. cup and cores and the 100 gr. TSX bullet and just get patterns. I did trie the 120 gr.TSX as well but figured that the twist rate in the M70 and that bullet wouldn't get along. I was right, they didn't get along. My son in law has the exact same M70 Featherweight and I did his load work up using the 100 gr. TSX over IIRC, H4350. He gets sub MOA with the load and my rifle hates it. I would like to find a load for that rifle but I don't know.
Lately I've been giving some thought to selling off most of my guns. Probably keep the single shots and a few favored bolt actions and handguns and just use the two Featherweights for my main deer and elk rifles. I have fairly decent load for the 7x57 running the Nosler 150 gr. Partition. The load is a bit too warm to shoot during out summers but probably will work just fine at the freezing to below freezing temps I've hunted at.
Paul B.

 

[35 Whelen]

Townsend Whelen's list:
Best All-around - .30-06 Springfield
Best Whitetail Deer - .250-3000 Savage
Best Mule Deer - .270 WCF
Best Elk - .30-40 Krag
Best Moose - .35 WCF
Best Grizzy/BB - .375 H&H Mag
Best Black Bear - .35 Remington
Best Antelope - .257 Roberts
Best Sheep/MG - 7x57mm Mauser
Best Caribou - 6.5x54mm M-S.
Well there is certainly nothing wrong with his choices.......... however a few ideas that still seam to be present in 2025 is somehow you would use a different rifle for a mule tail or a whitetail.???? After guiding for black bears for fifty years and knowing the actual weight of most harvested blackies is usually alot closer to 200 than 300lbs, this idea you would need a " big bore" or Magnum rifle over your "deer rifle" is highly out of context...... the idea a .280 would be a better for deer caliber, over a .270 is without much merit....... only when you venture into game that can weigh over 500lbs do calibers like 35 Whelen or .338's come into play. Frankly most hunters show up "over guned" and "over magnified" for the hunt. Our Whitetail hunters favor 3-9 scopes 90% of the time, avg FOV 35 feet @100yds. When a monster buck jumps up and bolts, your ability to get on it quickly (50-75yds) is massively enhanced at 1.5x with a 70/75' FOV. The idea a .257 Roberts is a much better choice than a .243W to shoot an Antelope or Dahl Sheep is certainly a personal choice that will not hold water. Folks that drive Fords wont drive a Chevy....... in old days guides that had Evinrude outboards swore they were superior to a Johnson ??? Folks will still argue till dawn that a 32 Special is better than a 30/30...... everyone that owns a .308 has unlimited facts, its better than a 30/06.
Guys that own a 338WM often feel an old 35 Rem would be "ok for a small porcupine" but a big one would probably get away.......
Of course everyone has an opinion but when pushed on how they are based it more often than not, circles back to 'dad had one' or uncle Luke shot a mountain of game with his so &so. Or Elmer Keith wrote this or that. In summary all these specific calibers for a specific animal is fun to argue about to a point. In reality not to 'pee in your cheerios' but we all have a bunch of guns we luv, but probably dont need.
Sadly in all reality I can kill everything from a Coyote to a 1000 lb Moose with a lowly 270W. So I think the old saying " beware of the man with one gun" still holds true! I do agree with Townsend's choice: the 30/06 still being best all around. All the lists look reasonable and its fun mess around with this thread.
Happy Holidays to all
E

 

[SJB358]

Townsend Whelen's list:
Best All-around - .30-06 Springfield
Best Whitetail Deer - .250-3000 Savage
Best Mule Deer - .270 WCF
Best Elk - .30-40 Krag
Best Moose - .35 WCF
Best Grizzy/BB - .375 H&H Mag
Best Black Bear - .35 Remington
Best Antelope - .257 Roberts
Best Sheep/MG - 7x57mm Mauser
Best Caribou - 6.5x54mm M-S.
Well there is certainly nothing wrong with his choices.......... however a few ideas that still seam to be present in 2025 is somehow you would use a different rifle for a mule tail or a whitetail.???? After guiding for black bears for fifty years and knowing the actual weight of most harvested blackies is usually alot closer to 200 than 300lbs, this idea you would need a " big bore" or Magnum rifle over your "deer rifle" is highly out of context...... the idea a .280 would be a better for deer caliber, over a .270 is without much merit....... only when you venture into game that can weigh over 500lbs do calibers like 35 Whelen or .338's come into play. Frankly most hunters show up "over guned" and "over magnified" for the hunt. Our Whitetail hunters favor 3-9 scopes 90% of the time, avg FOV 35 feet @100yds. When a monster buck jumps up and bolts, your ability to get on it quickly (50-75yds) is massively enhanced at 1.5x with a 70/75' FOV. The idea a .257 Roberts is a much better choice than a .243W to shoot an Antelope or Dahl Sheep is certainly a personal choice that will not hold water. Folks that drive Fords wont drive a Chevy....... in old days guides that had Evinrude outboards swore they were superior to a Johnson ??? Folks will still argue till dawn that a 32 Special is better than a 30/30...... everyone that owns a .308 has unlimited facts, its better than a 30/06.
Guys that own a 338WM often feel an old 35 Rem would be "ok for a small porcupine" but a big one would probably get away.......
Of course everyone has an opinion but when pushed on how they are based it more often than not, circles back to 'dad had one' or uncle Luke shot a mountain of game with his so &so. Or Elmer Keith wrote this or that. In summary all these specific calibers for a specific animal is fun to argue about to a point. In reality not to 'pee in your cheerios' but we all have a bunch of guns we luv, but probably dont need.
Sadly in all reality I can kill everything from a Coyote to a 1000 lb Moose with a lowly 270W. So I think the old saying " beware of the man with one gun" still holds true! I do agree with Townsend's choice: the 30/06 still being best all around. All the lists look reasonable and its fun mess around with this thread.
Happy Holidays to all
E

I believe you’re spot on. Looking back over my short hunting time here so far, nothing that I have done couldn’t have been with a 270/7 Rem/etc. I use other stuff these days cause that’s what i do but it doesn’t change the outcome of my hunting.

And yeah, could easily get by with a 30-06. No worries there either.

 

[DrMike]

I believe ol' Townsend was looking to use as many cartridges as possible. Perhaps he wasn't as different from us as we suspected.

 

[6mm Remington]

Best All-around - .30-06 Springfield
Best Whitetail Deer - 257 Roberts
Best Mule Deer - 280AI
Best Elk - 300 WSM
Best Moose - 338-06
Best Grizzy/BB - 338-06
Best Black Bear - 7x57 Mauser
Best Antelope - 6mm Remington
Best Sheep/MG - 280AI
Best Caribou - 25-06 Remington

 

[salmonchaser]

I have enjoyed many cartridges over the years. Certainly my 06 would have covered all my needs except, perhaps Eland. The outfitter I used thought the 06 a little light for Eland and preferred 300’s + for them. I’ve learned a great deal over the last several years and would compile a somewhat different list if I was 30 years old today instead of 70.
Varmint gun; .22-250/220 swift/223 I’ve used them all today; 22 Arc; Alf, Fart, there’s a bunch, none have as much class as the old dogs.
Light deer/ Antelope. 243/250.3000 owned them both never liked them very much. Never owned a 6mm for some reason, it is a good cartridge. Neither compares to the 257 Roberts or 25/06. 25 creedmore, what ever kinda, reminds me of JD Vance.
6.5 Creedmore, give me a break. 6.5 sweed any day or 264 WM. That said I might build a 6.5 prc.
Things get interesting at .284. I read everything Jack O’Conner ever wrote about the 270. He always thought the 06 was more versatile. I’ve had two buddies I’ve hunted with a lot, since we were kids. Both have killed a lot of mule deer and quite a few elk with the 270. We also tracked a bunch of their animals. Both stepped up to the 7mag about 30 years ago. They kill just as many deer and elk they are both still mediocre riflemen but are just as good at hunting as they ever were. We don’t track animals for them any more.
I’ve become quite attached to the 7x57. 2900 with a 150 puts it on the do all list. Thinking hard about taking it to Africa this May instead of the 300 HH.
From my perspective, if I could only have one rifle to finish out the next decade. 280AI. No question. Great selection of bullets, do what ever the big 7s will do.
The 30s are great. 30/06 will never be eclipsed. I’ll bet 100.00 US $ no one ever puts as much game on the ground as the 06 has done all over the world, many times. 300 HH; WSM, WM, they are all great but this is where recoil starts.
Ok, My night to cook regardless all the new offerings kinda hard to find fault with Whelens list.

 

[Blkram]

While there is a lot to be said about the 30-06 and how it does a lot, and has taken a great many animals over the decades (and who can argue with those results), it is nice to have choices. And I for one, will continue to use other cartridges just to say that I have tried them for myself, and have enjoyed the journey!
For whatever reason you have, we'll celebrate your successes with you and support you in your freedom to choose a rifle/cartridge combination that works for you to produce quick, clean kills, and puts meat on the table.
Best of luck in your adventures!