Why No Love for The .308 Winchester

I have to ask, what bullet is he using? I've been using the .308 on deer ever since I bought one back in 1973. I'm trying real hard to think if I've had to shoot more than once on a deer and frankly, I just don't remember. I started with using he 150 gr. bullet and while it worked it mangled up too much good eating meat to suit m. The few that were shot with 180 gr. bullets usually dropped on the spot but it wasn't until I it on the 165 gr. Speer hot Core that I felt Nirvana. Closest shot was a 150 gr. Sierra at 6 feet.. Very messy. Longest shot on deer was 426 paces on a big Nevada Mule deer my buddy had winged but was getting away. Bullet was a factory Winchester load with the 150 gr. Silvertip IIRC. One and down. I don't remember very many deer traveling very far after the 165 gr. Speer hit them. Maybe 20 to 30 feet and down.
Paul B.
He shoots factory ammo, he is not a reloader. Last year he was carrying 150gr Winchester silver box. Can't say I remember the exact bullet in that load though.
 
The one absolute about deer hunting is that there is no absolutes.
I’ve had deer run from different calibers, and had to track many.
One deer ran over 200 yards after having its heart blown apart and his right front leg shattered from a .50 cal, 300 grain, in-line muzzleloader bullet.
I’ve had to track a few that were dead, and running from my 30-06.
The only deer I’ve taken so far with my .308 ran about forty yards maybe? But the blood trail was a good one from the 150 grain AccuBond, and her heart was gone too.
Deer do some crazy things after being shot.
Everyone has their views, and so on, but I think I’ll be keeping my .308, and enjoying every second of it.
 
He shoots factory ammo, he is not a reloader. Last year he was carrying 150gr Winchester silver box. Can't say I remember the exact bullet in that load though.
My guess would be that they were 150 gr. Power Points but that's just a guess. I'm inclined these days to use a 165 gr. bullet in the .308. That came about due to a rfle that will not shoot anything else. Long story short it's the Speer 165 gr. Hot Core. I'd suggest your friend try some of the available factory loads using a 165 gr. bullet and use the brand the rifle likes best. I'd also suggest he look into reloading as a sideline to his shooting.
Paul B.
 
My guess would be that they were 150 gr. Power Points but that's just a guess. I'm inclined these days to use a 165 gr. bullet in the .308. That came about due to a rfle that will not shoot anything else. Long story short it's the Speer 165 gr. Hot Core. I'd suggest your friend try some of the available factory loads using a 165 gr. bullet and use the brand the rifle likes best. I'd also suggest he look into reloading as a sideline to his shooting.
Paul B.
I think they were PowerPoints now that you mention that. He doesn’t have the personality or the patience to learn how to reload. He’s big into archery, and hunts with a rifle just for extending his season and to ensure he has meat in the freezer.
 
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I am a huge fan of the .308 Win. I have had great results with IMR-4064 and Sierra GKs but i see the cartridge now in a whole new light with lighter TTSXs. Seems almost too perfect for a whitetail load. Low recoil, great ballistics out to 400 and easy to load. It would be my favorite load if not for the 7-08...
 
I cannot says Thousands, but I can confidently say Hundreds of deer and hogs with the 168 grain A-Max and ELD-M's in 308 Win rifles.
Barrels spanning from 16" to 26"
I am not talking about myself here.
 
Have him get some Hornady TAP 168 ELD-M's.
They work great on tissue.

This was TAP with the 168 A-Max at 350 yards about 12 years ago.
14" 308 Winchester pistol.
Great shooting! Based on feedback form some of you on this forum, my opinion would probably be different of the 308 had I been around you guys haha. It's so rooted in me now, who knows.
 
Bullet choices are important.
Shot placement is EPIC!

Many hunters say, “I made a good shot,” when in reality they did not.
I have found this to be sadly true.

Most hunters do not do an autopsy and actually confirm where the bullet went, what it hit.
They just assume they made a good hit.
They rarely check what trauma (hydrostatic shock) the bullet caused from entrance to exit.

No bullet always acts the same way every time!!!
Sometimes there’s an explanation and other times it’s…I Dunno 🤷🏻‍♂️
 
Bullet choices are important.
Shot placement is EPIC!

Many hunters say, “I made a good shot,” when in reality they did not.
I have found this to be sadly true.

Most hunters do not do an autopsy and actually confirm where the bullet went, what it hit.
They just assume they made a good hit.
They rarely check what trauma (hydrostatic shock) the bullet caused from entrance to exit.

No bullet always acts the same way every time!!!
Sometimes there’s an explanation and other times it’s…I Dunno 🤷🏻‍♂️
^^^^This^^^^
We always inspect the entrance/exit wound and the internal trauma from the bullet. It gives one good knowledge.

JD338
 
View attachment 26624
I am a huge fan of the .308 Win. I have had great results with IMR-4064 and Sierra GKs but i see the cartridge now in a whole new light with lighter TTSXs. Seems almost too perfect for a whitetail load. Low recoil, great ballistics out to 400 and easy to load. It would be my favorite load if not for the 7-08...

I've shot a .308 Win for a number of years. Most of my handloads used 150-165gr bullets. They all worked fine. At one-point, reloaders began to rave about the Barnes 130TTSX in .308 & 30-06. I decided to give them a try. They were very accurate in my rifle. At just over 200yds (IIRC) an 8-point buck walked out of the woodline and was staring at a feeding doe decoy. I took a single shot square in the chest while he was facing me. That buck looked like he was slammed to the ground and never even twitched. I've got to say, that was the quickest kill I've ever seen.
 
Bullet choices are important.
Shot placement is EPIC!

Many hunters say, “I made a good shot,” when in reality they did not.
I have found this to be sadly true.

Most hunters do not do an autopsy and actually confirm where the bullet went, what it hit.
They just assume they made a good hit.
They rarely check what trauma (hydrostatic shock) the bullet caused from entrance to exit.

No bullet always acts the same way every time!!!
Sometimes there’s an explanation and other times it’s…I Dunno 🤷🏻‍♂️
One of the "camp hobbies" me and my family have is inspecting the carnage of our shot. Half the time someone is taking a picture of the heart and lungs as we field dress just to show it at camp. Then we do our skinning party and everyone wants to see what the entry and exit looks like, if no exit what's the bullet look like.. it's like an event. We also do a competition at our camp for head shot doe and most damage caused. Last year my Dad won with his 300 WSM head shot. The prize last year was a Vortex range finder. I used my 44 mag lever with a Hornady FTX round. It unfortunately did not cause anything like I had hoped.
 
The absolute fastest kill I ever witnessed was a 308 with a 150gr BT. It was a large doe at about 165 yards. She dropped and died so fast she didn't even roll on her side..just straight down with all 4 legs under her,
I shot 2 crop damage deer with the 150 gr BT, both just dropped in their tracks dead.

JD338
 
View attachment 26624
I am a huge fan of the .308 Win. I have had great results with IMR-4064 and Sierra GKs but i see the cartridge now in a whole new light with lighter TTSXs. Seems almost too perfect for a whitetail load. Low recoil, great ballistics out to 400 and easy to load. It would be my favorite load if not for the 7-08...
I am trying to find a load for the ttsx’s . My initial attempts were with Varget as that is what I use either the accubonds, but haven’t been successful there.
I’ve got some loads worked up using TAC but haven’t had the chance to get to the range lately. Soon I hope!
3248 is pretty quick!
COL 2.12 is that base to ogive?
 
I have had pretty good results with TAC and I didn't play around with the jump at all. I have read that the Barnes monos like a big jump. I can try and dig up some of the photos of the test groups but they hovered around 1 MOA. My velocities were captured using a lab radar and my loads were direct from the Barnes load data page. https://barnesbullets.com/load-data/

Note: I am using the Lapua "Palma" small rifle primer pockets and the COAL length is to the ogive. No pressure signs. I think that this is where some would insert a safety disclaimer on proper load development...

Max Distance: 500Ballistics Coefficient: .350Wind Speed: 0
Increment: 10Muzzle Velocity: 3248Wind Angle: 90
Zero Range: 100Weight(grains): 130Altitude: 0
Sight Height: 1.8Drag Function: G1Pressure: 29.53
Incline Angle: 0Barrel Twist: 10 Temperature: 59
Humidity: 78



Yards​
Velocity
(FT/S)​
Elevation
(Inches)​
Windage
(Inches)​
Time Of
Flight​
Energy
(FT-LB)​
0​
3248​
-1.8​
0​
0.00​
3045​
10​
3218​
-1.46​
0​
0.01​
2989​
20​
3189​
-1.15​
0​
0.02​
2935​
30​
3160​
-0.88​
0.01​
0.03​
2882​
40​
3131​
-0.65​
0.01​
0.04​
2829​
50​
3102​
-0.45​
0.02​
0.05​
2777​
60​
3074​
-0.28​
0.02​
0.06​
2727​
70​
3045​
-0.16​
0.03​
0.07​
2676​
80​
3017​
-0.07​
0.04​
0.08​
2627​
90​
2990​
-0.02​
0.05​
0.09​
2580​
100​
2962​
0​
0.06​
0.10​
2532​
110​
2934​
-0.03​
0.07​
0.11​
2484​
120​
2907​
-0.1​
0.08​
0.12​
2439​
130​
2880​
-0.21​
0.09​
0.13​
2394​
140​
2853​
-0.36​
0.11​
0.14​
2349​
150​
2826​
-0.55​
0.12​
0.15​
2305​
160​
2799​
-0.79​
0.14​
0.16​
2261​
170​
2773​
-1.07​
0.16​
0.17​
2219​
180​
2746​
-1.4​
0.18​
0.18​
2176​
190​
2720​
-1.77​
0.2​
0.19​
2135​
200​
2694​
-2.19​
0.22​
0.20​
2095​
210​
2668​
-2.66​
0.24​
0.21​
2054​
220​
2643​
-3.17​
0.26​
0.23​
2016​
230​
2617​
-3.74​
0.29​
0.24​
1977​
240​
2592​
-4.36​
0.31​
0.25​
1939​
250​
2566​
-5.03​
0.34​
0.26​
1900​
260​
2541​
-5.75​
0.37​
0.27​
1863​
270​
2516​
-6.52​
0.4​
0.28​
1827​
280​
2491​
-7.35​
0.43​
0.30​
1791​
290​
2466​
-8.24​
0.47​
0.31​
1755​
300​
2442​
-9.18​
0.5​
0.32​
1721​
310​
2417​
-10.18​
0.54​
0.33​
1686​
320​
2393​
-11.25​
0.57​
0.35​
1653​
330​
2369​
-12.37​
0.61​
0.36​
1620​
340​
2345​
-13.55​
0.65​
0.37​
1587​
350​
2321​
-14.8​
0.69​
0.38​
1555​
360​
2297​
-16.11​
0.74​
0.40​
1523​
370​
2273​
-17.49​
0.78​
0.41​
1491​
380​
2250​
-18.93​
0.83​
0.42​
1461​
390​
2226​
-20.45​
0.88​
0.44​
1430​
400​
2203​
-22.03​
0.93​
0.45​
1401​
 
When using OGIVE i refer to it as CBTO instead of COAL. Case Base To Ogive vs Case Over All Length. I hear of so many people having great results with the TTSX in many calibers. I also hear about how hard they are on your barrel. I've been stuck in dead center on them and am yet to even try a load. I probably should pony up though.
 
When using OGIVE i refer to it as CBTO instead of COAL. Case Base To Ogive vs Case Over All Length. I hear of so many people having great results with the TTSX in many calibers. I also hear about how hard they are on your barrel. I've been stuck in dead center on them and am yet to even try a load. I probably should pony up though.
Noted - CBTO... Thx.

I only have anecdotal evidence or experience as it relates to coppers and barrel life. I don't get a lot of fouling, but I also don't send a lot down range once I settle on a load. I think that the relief grooves may assist in decreased fouling. Maybe?
 
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