168 Berger VLD Hunting Bullets for 30-06

[Guest]

Any you guys ever try or shoot this bullet in your 30-06 with H4350 Powder? I have some coming soon. Thought I would play with them a little bit. I have an excellent 165 AB load developed but wanted to try the VLD offering recommended by a friend.

Don

 

[Scott Spencer]

I've never shot any of the Berger bullets but would love to hear how they work for you in the 30-06 when you get around to shooting them!

 

[Guest]

Yeah, I will let you know, I don't have a lot of time to mess around with it but am curious. I still like the pass thru shots on game mostly. Their concept is different.

Don

 

[SJB358]

It would seem like if they shoot, H4350 or IMR4350 would be the one to make it shoot. Good luck with it Don. I have never used a Berger either and would like to try one of them, just to see what they do. I have an Uncle that swears by them in his 280. I know they work, but on an entirely different principle than most of the others. Scotty

 

[Guest]

beretzs,

Thanks, it's interesting how the bullet world has so much to offer these days. I find it interesting, remembering how different the bullet offerings were in the 1970's. I will always be a devoted Nosler crazy on this end.
My Elk hunting buddy in Colorado, who has taken his share of Bull Elk and Muley Bucks, has always stated he has never seen a Nosler Fail. Experience speaks for its self.

But the 06 is normally used for whitetails here in Tenn. I am very anxious to try this 165 AccuBond load this season. We will see how the Berger does with time, on paper.

Don

 

[SJB358]

Although, I don't have near the time as you with the Nosler's, I haven't ever had one single issue with them, and frankly, they seem to work better than most new bullets to be honest. I am a touch biased, but the Partition still does everything I expect out of a bullet, fast expansion, good weight retention, good ballistic shape and good accuracy. I like to try new things once in awhile, but I tend to stick with the PT's for the bulk of my hunting. Scotty

 

[Guest]

I'm with you there. I'm getting better performance from the accubonds in the 300 Ultra Mag. right now although I have used the partitions earlier on with this gun and they performed very well.

I have the 35 Whelen shooting 225 AB. I used the 06 with 150 BT & AB previously and they did the job well, but felt I needed to step up to the 165 level for a little more weight retention.

This I found interesting too, speaking of bullet performance. My Colorado hunt buddy stated while taking many Elk and Muley Bucks using Barnes bullets he noticed they blow through the animal, then run off. But noticed greater (visual results) shocking power using Nosler Partitions. His typical shot is through the lungs, the Partition put them on the ground faster in his opinion. After examining the bullet damage from both bullets used and given the same shot placement, he believes the petals tear off the Barnes. Nosler performance is like a fine tuned watch, you know what to expect and it delivers every time. You can't argue with dead. :wink:

Don

 

[SJB358]

Couldn't have said it better. I love the mighty PT! Scotty

 

[Guy Miner]

Don, I've used the 115 gr Berger VLD on three mule deer from my .25-06 Rem 700. It's worked really well. Instant one-shot drops out to 400 yards. Very good accuracy. Typically it doesn't exit. Needle hole entrance wound, no expansion at all for a couple of inches, then expands violently in the chest cavity. I think it's a terrific bullet for deer sized game. A couple of buddies have used heavier VLD's on bigger game, including elk and moose. They're satisfied. I tend to think more along the lines of a Nosler Partition or AccuBond when I start thinking of bigger game than a mule deer.

I've shot the .30 cal 168's from my .308, .30-06 and .300 WSM. Decent to excellent accuracy results in each case, but I have not yet used the 168 VLD on game. Someday perhaps.

Regards, Guy

 

[Guest]

Shot some loads this past Saturday with the 168 VLD Hunting bullet. Had two loads of
H4350 powder, 58.0 & 59.0. using CCI 200 Primers. I was getting 2,750 fps with the 58.0 load and 2,800 fps with 59.0. No pressures signs. Temp. was 78-degrees with 10-20 mph winds.

The best group came from 58.0, two almost touching, the third 1" away.The 59.0 load grouped three shots but were spaced 11/4" apart between shots.

Have to mess with seating a little to improve results.

Don

 

[Guy Miner]

That's what I'd expect for velocity, and yes, the VLD's seem to be a little picky about seating depth. No big deal for a handloader.

I like 'em, but don't know that they're any better on game or more accurate than a good ol' Nosler Ballistic Tip.

 

[Guest]

Guy,
You and I think alike. My thoughts exactly. The Ballistic Tip is deadly, applied correctly and assuming one stays away from the shoulders. But I believe Nosler has something special with the creation of the AccuBond.

It's been interesting playing around with the Berger, I have to stay focused though on completion of my latest load with 165 Accubonds.I'll mess with the Bergers later.

Don

 

[FOTIS]

Cartridge : .30-06 Spring. (SAAMI)
Bullet : .308, 168, Berger VLD
Useable Case Capaci: 60.763 grain H2O = 3.945 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.340 inch = 84.84 mm
Barrel Length : 22.0 inch = 558.8 mm

Predicted Data for Indicated Charges of the Following Powders.
Matching Maximum Pressure: 62500 psi, or 430 MPa
or a maximum loading ratio or filling of 110 %
These calculations refer to your specified settings in QuickLOAD 'Cartridge Dimensions' window.
C A U T I O N : any load listed can result in a powder charge that falls below minimum suggested
loads or exceeds maximum suggested loads as presented in current handloading manuals. Understand
that all of the listed powders can be unsuitable for the given combination of cartridge, bullet
and gun. Actual load order can vary, depending upon lot-to-lot powder and component variations.
USE ONLY FOR COMPARISON !

112 loads produced a Loading Ratio below user-defined minimum of 90%. These powders have been skipped.
Powder type Filling/Loading Ratio Charge Charge Vel. Prop.Burnt P max P muzz B_Time
% Grains Gramm fps % psi psi ms
--------------------------------- -----------------------------------------------------------------
Somchem S365 108.9 60.7 3.93 2935 100.0 62500 10495 1.044 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H4350 105.8 58.9 3.82 2913 99.0 62500 10971 1.037 ! Near Maximum !
Ramshot Hunter 106.2 61.4 3.98 2913 98.7 62500 11113 1.044 ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-17 97.8 57.4 3.72 2911 100.0 62500 10620 1.035 ! Near Maximum !
Winchester 760 100.3 59.4 3.85 2906 98.0 62500 11082 1.048 ! Near Maximum !
Norma URP 105.8 58.6 3.80 2900 99.6 62500 10761 1.051 ! Near Maximum !
Bofors RP19 ~approximation 105.8 58.6 3.80 2900 99.6 62500 10757 1.051 ! Near Maximum !
Norma MRP 110.0 64.3 4.17 2900 96.9 56902 11936 1.078 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N550 102.7 58.8 3.81 2899 99.5 62500 10881 1.056 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 4350 109.9 58.9 3.82 2898 99.6 62500 10748 1.065 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4350 108.5 58.2 3.77 2898 98.4 62500 10878 1.043 ! Near Maximum !
ADI AR 2209 109.7 61.1 3.96 2893 96.1 62500 11108 1.036 ! Near Maximum !
Ramshot BigGame 98.7 57.1 3.70 2884 100.0 62500 10401 1.051 ! Near Maximum !
SNPE Vectan SP 11 98.8 57.2 3.70 2883 100.0 62500 10386 1.051 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H414 97.6 58.3 3.78 2881 98.0 62500 10896 1.057 ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-19 110.0 61.6 3.99 2881 96.1 61043 11161 1.052 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4895 97.4 52.8 3.42 2875 100.0 62500 9783 1.037 ! Near Maximum !
Bofors RP4 ~approximation 108.2 60.6 3.93 2875 96.0 62500 10893 1.043 ! Near Maximum !
Raufoss RA4 108.2 60.6 3.93 2875 96.0 62500 10893 1.043 ! Near Maximum !
Norma 204 104.8 60.6 3.93 2875 96.0 62500 10893 1.043 ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-15 96.1 53.8 3.49 2862 99.9 62500 10253 1.060 ! Near Maximum !
Raufoss RA11 96.1 53.8 3.49 2862 99.9 62500 10253 1.060 ! Near Maximum !
Bofors RP11 ~approximation 96.1 53.8 3.49 2862 99.9 62500 10253 1.060 ! Near Maximum !
Norma 203B 96.6 54.1 3.51 2861 100.0 62500 10179 1.061 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 7828 SSC 110.0 63.3 4.10 2860 93.3 58265 11442 1.066 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon BL-C2 90.8 55.5 3.60 2856 100.0 62500 10024 1.063 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4831 110.0 59.0 3.82 2855 99.6 60450 10484 1.075 ! Near Maximum !
Norma 203 old 98.0 55.5 3.60 2854 100.0 62500 10021 1.072 ! Near Maximum !
Bofors RP14 ~approximation 110.0 61.6 3.99 2852 95.7 59612 11001 1.064 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H380 97.4 55.7 3.61 2851 99.4 62500 10331 1.064 ! Near Maximum !
Rottweil R903 100.2 55.5 3.60 2848 100.0 62500 9942 1.072 ! Near Maximum !
Winchester Supreme 780 108.6 64.1 4.16 2846 95.9 62500 10572 1.045 ! Near Maximum !
Lovex-S0701 104.9 58.1 3.77 2846 98.1 62500 10493 1.065 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4320 98.0 54.0 3.50 2846 100.0 62500 9877 1.047 ! Near Maximum !
PB Clermont PCL 516 93.8 56.0 3.63 2842 99.4 62500 10199 1.056 ! Near Maximum !
Somchem S355 100.2 54.9 3.56 2841 100.0 62500 9941 1.068 ! Near Maximum !
Somchem S385 110.0 62.3 4.04 2840 97.0 60302 10726 1.075 ! Near Maximum !
Rottweil R904 108.8 60.1 3.89 2837 94.8 62500 10523 1.048 ! Near Maximum !
SNPE Vectan SP 9 93.7 54.2 3.51 2837 100.0 62500 9911 1.057 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 3031 95.7 50.1 3.25 2831 100.0 62500 9198 1.063 ! Near Maximum !
PB Clermont PCL 507 90.3 52.8 3.42 2827 100.0 62500 9626 1.059 ! Near Maximum !
Lovex-S0651 103.6 56.8 3.68 2827 98.9 62500 10162 1.066 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N560 110.0 63.0 4.08 2825 92.0 54231 11622 1.104
Hodgdon VARGET 98.7 53.5 3.47 2825 99.8 62500 9859 1.052 ! Near Maximum !
ADI AR 2208 98.4 53.5 3.47 2825 99.8 62500 9859 1.052 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 2520 93.0 53.7 3.48 2824 100.0 62500 9404 1.075 ! Near Maximum !
ADI AR 2213 110.0 62.3 4.04 2822 92.7 56865 11207 1.078 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 4064 102.4 53.6 3.47 2821 100.0 62500 9398 1.092 ! Near Maximum !
Somchem S341 91.9 55.4 3.59 2821 100.0 62500 9661 1.059 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H4895 98.7 53.5 3.46 2819 100.0 62500 9341 1.054 ! Near Maximum !
Rottweil R907 102.1 56.2 3.64 2819 97.3 62500 10232 1.062 ! Near Maximum !
Lovex-S0621 97.1 52.9 3.43 2819 100.0 62500 9544 1.070 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4007 SSC 98.9 56.2 3.64 2818 97.3 62500 10224 1.062 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4064 99.4 52.6 3.41 2818 99.9 62500 9685 1.057 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H4831 SC 110.0 62.3 4.04 2816 93.0 59662 10687 1.063 ! Near Maximum !
Norma 201 90.1 51.6 3.34 2808 100.0 62500 9493 1.073 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon Hybrid 100V 110.0 57.6 3.73 2808 99.9 57799 9863 1.084 ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-22 110.0 62.3 4.04 2807 94.4 53405 11360 1.114
Raufoss RA15 110.0 62.3 4.04 2807 94.4 53405 11360 1.114
Bofors RP5/NP ~approximation 110.0 62.3 4.04 2807 94.4 53405 11360 1.114
Vihtavuori N540 95.8 54.2 3.51 2804 100.0 62500 9321 1.066 ! Near Maximum !
Norma 202 93.5 51.5 3.34 2803 100.0 62500 9173 1.068 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N150 105.5 55.7 3.61 2802 100.0 62500 9324 1.066 ! Near Maximum !
Rottweil R902 95.9 51.8 3.36 2800 100.0 62500 9377 1.074 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 2495 95.2 50.4 3.27 2798 100.0 62500 9037 1.098 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N140 101.5 54.6 3.54 2794 100.0 62500 9267 1.062 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate MAGPRO 110.0 65.5 4.24 2794 89.6 53182 11489 1.118
Rottweil R901 92.1 49.0 3.18 2781 100.0 62500 9022 1.082 ! Near Maximum !
Lovex-S0601 93.5 50.9 3.30 2780 100.0 62500 9249 1.058 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N135 101.8 51.7 3.35 2771 100.0 62500 8614 1.075 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon Benchmark 90.7 50.1 3.24 2771 100.0 62500 8965 1.061 ! Near Maximum !
ADI AR 2206 92.8 51.4 3.33 2769 100.0 62500 9098 1.058 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 2700 99.9 57.8 3.74 2768 97.1 62500 9614 1.067 ! Near Maximum !
ADI AR 2206H 92.0 51.5 3.34 2764 100.0 62500 9065 1.057 ! Near Maximum !
Somchem S335 93.6 51.3 3.32 2736 100.0 62500 8481 1.077 ! Near Maximum !
Rottweil R905 110.0 61.1 3.96 2733 91.2 51713 10725 1.134
Ramshot Magnum (Big Boy) 110.0 66.0 4.27 2721 90.8 50175 11144 1.142
Winchester WXR 110.0 60.9 3.95 2719 92.7 48611 11023 1.164
Vihtavuori N133 95.3 48.9 3.17 2715 100.0 62500 8072 1.069 ! Near Maximum !
SNPE Vectan SP 12 110.0 65.8 4.26 2712 90.8 49681 11098 1.147
PB Clermont PCL 517 110.0 65.8 4.26 2706 90.5 49407 11079 1.150
Hodgdon H4831 110.0 59.9 3.88 2689 90.7 51632 10213 1.135
IMR 7828 110.0 59.9 3.88 2672 89.7 47506 10703 1.171
Vihtavuori N165 110.0 60.9 3.95 2666 94.1 50242 9929 1.155
ADI AP 2214 110.0 64.0 4.14 2664 89.7 49604 10526 1.151
Vihtavuori N160 110.0 59.1 3.83 2657 91.9 51686 9741 1.143
Alliant Reloder-25 110.0 61.3 3.97 2652 95.2 43933 10972 1.214
Accurate 3100 110.0 58.3 3.78 2555 94.4 42669 9783 1.268
Norma MRP 2 110.0 61.6 3.99 2539 87.0 39190 10568 1.287
Vihtavuori N570 110.0 65.0 4.21 2490 77.4 38479 10552 1.300
Hodgdon H1000 110.0 60.9 3.95 2490 85.5 41033 9740 1.259
Hodgdon Retumbo 110.0 62.0 4.01 2410 86.0 35188 10125 1.350
Lovex-D1001 110.0 66.3 4.30 2395 73.7 40844 8677 1.280
Vihtavuori N170 110.0 60.9 3.95 2354 77.0 36033 8824 1.357
Vihtavuori 24N41 110.0 65.6 4.25 2347 69.2 38100 8738 1.319
ADI AR 2218 110.0 65.6 4.25 2316 68.6 35726 9212 1.355
Hodgdon H870 110.0 63.6 4.12 2265 73.5 30716 9253 1.443
Hodgdon 50BMG 110.0 62.6 4.05 2170 60.7 30714 7842 1.452
Hodgdon US 869 110.0 65.6 4.25 2161 64.0 30424 7889 1.462
SNPE Vectan SP 13 110.0 63.0 4.08 2110 67.8 27268 7857 1.529
PB Clermont PCL 513/520/9520 110.0 63.0 4.08 2048 64.1 25824 7453 1.567
Vihtavuori 20N29 110.0 66.3 4.30 2030 61.1 25814 7432 1.568
Accurate 8700 110.0 63.1 4.09 2010 62.4 25626 7141 1.576
NC A3502 ,test only 110.0 60.3 3.91 1912 43.6 25769 5373 1.585
TLP A 502(RH) ,test only 110.0 60.3 3.91 1890 46.9 23799 5682 1.635
V1734 7-multiperf ,test only 110.0 60.3 3.91 1362 21.4 13807 2608 2.098

 

[rick smith]

I have used the 168gr Hunting VLD for 5yrs.+ and have taken at least 20 Whitetails and a number of hogs with them. I have not recovered a bullet. All had exit wounds. My load is with 58.8grs IMR-4350, 210M primer. They have worked as advertised for me.Rick.

 

[Guest]

Pop,

Thanks for running the quick load. I shot 58.0 & 59.0 loads of RL-17 this past week-end. Produced high 2800's -2904 fps with both loads using BR-2 Primers, groups were not so good though.I want to try CCI250 Mag as they helped tighten the groups with 165 Ballistic Tip. I'm seating out to max on the magazine tongue, Rem. 700 22" barrel, cannot get very close to the lands. Guess I'll have to play with the powder charge somewhat. I want to return to H4350 and try CCI250 too. Just need more time at the range.

Don

 

[1Shot]

Berger bullets DO NOT have to be seated to or into the lands to shoot well. They shoot just as well WAAAAAY of the lands. Go over to www.longrangehunting.com and go to the forums and down to the handloading or bullets, barrels etc. thread. At the top of the page you will see a line that tells you how to find your seating depth for best accuracy.

 

[C.Smith]

I have used the 168 Berger in my 30-06 with H4350 and gotten similiar results as you. Not great groups but not horrible. All my reloading stuff is in storage at the moment otherwise I would get my exact results for you. I was using GM215M primers with mine. I could probably go dig my book out if you want.

Corey

 

[Guest]

Corey,
Thanks for the offer, It would be nice to see your experiences if you have time to look for it. For now I'm pretty much settled in on the165 Ballistic Tip or AccuBond with H4350 Powder. I'm going to try what JD338 suggested and seat them just a little deeper in hopes to tighten it up a little.


Don

 

[C.Smith]

I'll go and try and dig them out his weekend and let you know my exact results.

Corey

 

[Big Squeeze]

Any you guys ever try or shoot this bullet in your 30-06 with H4350 Powder? I have some coming soon. Thought I would play with them a little bit. I have an excellent 165 AB load developed but wanted to try the VLD offering recommended by a friend.

Don

............................Don,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,Don`t have an `06, but happen to have a 300 WSM. Can`t attest as to how your particular rifle will handle the VLDs using H4350, but I see no reason why
there would be a problem given enough experimentation.

So far, the 168 hunting VLDs have accounted for 50+ hogs kills. All were one shot with none running more than a few yards of impact. Most were pretty much DRT so no tracking was needed. An absolutely devastating bullet on hogs.

Debates will always rage on about what the proper bullet killing characteristics should be on game. As a VLD user on hogs + one bull elk taken with a 190 VLD (thru the right shoulder bone) that collapsed the elk within four yards, I`m interested in just two things after a well placed shot. Do I have a dead animal and how far did I need to track the animal to find it.

Nothing else matters. I`m not interested in bullet weight retentions, not in exit holes or pass throughs, nor interested in bullet recoveries. The vitals which are located forward and in the center of the game, is what needs to be violently disrupted, even through thick bone if necessary which the VLDs are capable of. If I happen to get an exit hole then so be it.

For comparison purposes, my 16.5" barreled 300 WSM Ruger Frontier carbine using 168 VLD hunting loads, are right on par with the velocity capabilities of a 26" barrelled `06 AI.

Using max doses of RL17, the 168 VLDs are capable of 3040 fps, while using max loads of H4350 VLD hunting loads, I`ve gotton 2925 fps. You should be about in that range.