1st post 30-06 help

wisconsinteacher · Dec 2, 2010

I have been reloading for a few years and for the most part have had good luck with working up loads. I would like to try working up a few loads for hunting whitetail next year. Right now I am shooting 180 grain SST bullets with 52.5 gr Win 760. I would like to try Nosler BT and AB. I got them in 165 gr today in the mail. I am planning on buying H4350 but an wondering how deep to set the bullet. I do not have a gauge to measure the lands of the rifle but do have a tool to measure the Ogive of the bullets. At what depth should I start seating the bullets on the 165 gr bullets. Of all the things that go into reloading, OAL and Min OAL is where I get confused due to different bullets having different lengths. Is there anything I can read or do to learn more about it? Thanks and I can not wait to get my Ruger M77 up and running.

DrMike · Dec 2, 2010

Welcome to the forum. Trust you will feel free to join in the discussions. What do you teach?

Often, magazine depth will determine seating depth. That said, the magazine on your M77 will likely be the limiting factor for OAL. The Nosler guide (Nosler Reloading Guide Number 6) has a good discussion of seating depth (page 43). As a general rule, if your magazine permits, loading cup and core bullets closer to the lands will yield better accuracy. Most rifles will have two nodes (seating depths that yield the highest degree of accuracy). Begin at about 0.010 inches off the lands and work back in 0.005 inch increments if you are inclined to be precise. I sometimes work in much larger increments, working at 0.010, 0.040, 0.070 and 0.100 inches off the lands. One of those points will give you measurably improved accuracy. You can then focus on refining the seating depth to achieve the highest degree of accuracy.

6mm Remington · Dec 2, 2010

I prefer the 165 gr. bullet in the 30-06 over the 180 although both are superb, it's just my choice of weights. I really would try the AccuBond or the Partition. They are both excellent bullets and you WOULD NOT GO WRONG with either one. H4350 is a great powder as is IMR4350. My load for two 30-06 rifles I have owned is as follows.

165 gr. AccuBond or Partition with 57.4 grs. of IMR4350. Both bullets shoot great in my Ruger #1B.

Seating depth. This is not the most accurate way to do this, but actually is listed in some of the manuals. Take a black marker and color the bottom half of the bullet all the way around. Take a once fired case that has not been resized and push the neck edge down on your loading bench, slightly making the case mouth out of round. Start the bullet into the case neck. The tension will hold the bullet yet allow it to seat deeper if you push on it, and when you push it into the rifling. Just barely get the bullet started but make sure it's seated enough to be held firmly and in a straight line. Very carefully slip the cartridge into the chamber and slowly push the bolt forward and close the bolt. Open the action and carefully remove the cartridge. The bullet should stay in the case neck, and if the rifling grabs it enough, you might see that it has pulled the pullet back out slightly from where it had been at it's deepest point. You can tell that by the circle in the black ink on the bullet that is above the case mouth. VERY CAREFULLY, gently push the bullet back into the case right to the edge of the neck mark on the bullet and then measure overall length. The bullet might even just barely stick in the rifling when you pull the case out, and if that happens, a real light tap of the butt-pad on a carpeted floor will usually make it drop out of the open action. Do this about 6 times, coloring the bullet each time with the marker for a new measurement, and write the maximum OAL lengths down. Add them up and then divide by 6. That should give you a pretty close idea how far the bullet can be seated out to just touch the rifling, and then seat accordingly from there. Of course you might find that you can seat the bullets out farther than you have magazine length, but at least this gives you a starting point.

Personally I would start at .015 off the lands if you have magazine space to do so and try a few loads. If that doesn't work, then seet it .005 deeper and try again. You should be able to find a sweet spot for that bullet and your rifle pretty quickly. Hornady makes a bullet comparator that has a specially designed set-up that does not cost much and works very well also. You might check into something like that, but lots of loaders, me included before they came out with all the new measuring devices probably just started out just as I described. It does work. Good luck and I hope this helps.

wisconsinteacher · Dec 3, 2010

Thanks for the replys. Currently, I teach in a middle school working with special education students. I will try to measure the OAL of my rifle in the next week or so. I would do it this weekend but there is ice on the lakes so I am going fishing. I will post my results. My goal is to get my rifle MOA by next fall. Again thanks.

DrMike · Dec 3, 2010

You should have no difficulty getting MOA, and likely you can do this by tweaking powder charge alone with OAL at SAAMI standards. Good luck fishing.

Richracer1 · Dec 3, 2010

In regards to seating depth, I have my 30-06 ammo (180AB & 180ET) COL at 3.390" - this is a Vanguard Sporter.

The other 30-06 I worked up a load for used 58gn of H4350, 165AB, and a COL of 3.360".

tkeveney · Dec 10, 2010

I have used 165 grain ballistic tips in my Ruger for years. They work well and are a good choice. Nosler now makes something just a little better....

Once you've worked up your loads, figured out your length and get comfortable - try the 168 grain bullets.

It sounds funny to say that 3 grains of weight would make a difference - but it does. The 168's have a much better ballistic coefficient - so they will retain velocity with less drop. They are significantly longer, having a much more gradual taper in the front. If you load to length using a comparator, you will be able to seat the bullet just a bit further out. This leaves room for a grain or two more powder.

Lighter bullets don't move faster because they are lighter - they move faster because there is more room in the case for powder. Lighter bullets are shorter, so you load them further out in the case. The 168 grain bullets allow you to load a more effective round with a bullet that is more aerodynamic, moves faster, shoots flatter and hits harder than a 165.

The difference is significant enough to take a look at.

I use W 760 powder - 58 grains (WORK UP TO ANY MAX LOAD IN SMALL INCREMENTS AND LOOK FOR SIGNS OF PRESSURE!)

With this load I get 2850 fps from a 22 inch sporter barrel. This is actual data from a chronograph - not the B.S. you read in those "pie in the sky" ballistic charts.

Hope this helps. Good luck. I think you'll find a well made, hand crafted bullet will vastly outperform any factory load.

chet · Dec 10, 2010

here's a thought..... some may agree, some may not.

when I have a good performing load for a rifle, and I want to try a different bullet:

I leave the seating die where it was set for the previous load that shot well.
Depending on the bullets designs and die manufacturer, This practice will generally seat the new bullet to the same ogive/lands relationship.
Then of course make sure that the new load will fit in the magazine.
It's true that the new bullet may prefer a different relationship to the lands, but it is a good starting point.

1Shot · Dec 10, 2010

I just take a case and FL size it then take a cutting tool of some sort and cut a line from the mouth of the case down to the start of the shoulder. Clean up the burrs and before every use run it back into the FL sizer. Take which bullet you want to use and just start it into the case by hand. Place it into the chamber and close the bolt and carefully extract. The bullet will have been pushed back into the case by the lands. Measure your over all length. This is the to the lands over all length. I like to start by seating the bullet 10 thousands deeper thus it will be 10 thousands off the lands. I use this setting to find my best accuracy with the powder I want to use. Once I find my best accuracy with the powder it the accuracy does not come up to my expectations I start seating the bullets farther away by 10 thousands at a time and shoot some groups to see which gives the best accuracy. I have had many bullets between 30 and 40 thousands off the lands that shot the best. With the 30-06 you may not be able to get the 165 gr bullets 10 thousands close to the lands. Most 30-06s have loooooog throats for shooting the 220 gr bullets. When I run into long throats I seat the bullets at least a full caliber depth into the case. You can pretty well do OK by seating the base of the bullet to be even with the bottom of the case neck before it flairs out to the shoulder. Different rifles with different bullets like different seating depths so you just have to experiment.