22 Hornet load discrepancy

[Gos]

Greetings,
After a long and drawn out ordeal with Savage, I finally fixed my Model 25 myself and am back on the reloading bench looking for that perfect coyote load. My Nosler book lists 13g of Lil'Gun for the 40g bullet. When I went to the on Nosler on line reloading data site, that load is now a maximum of 11g for the same bullet and powder combination. Did the bullet get redesigned? Is my manual wrong? Is the on line data wrong? Anyone have an insight into why that huge difference is there? 2 grains is huge in that little case.
Thanks for reading.

 

[jimbires]

it seems like we are seeing this more often . I won't guess as to why . I got you all the 22 hornet info I have .

Lyman


Hornady

 

[jimbires]

part 2

Hodgdon


Speer




Nosler

 

[NYDAN]

Welcome to the forum.

Differences in reloading manuals can be disconcerting. I try to follow the old adage of "starting low and working up". I have had a few surprises when a "low" load yielded "high" velocities (and corresponding pressures). Personally, since I can measure velocity, but not pressure, I never exceed the top velocities listed in the manuals for a given bullet & powder combination, even if my charge weight is below book max. Also, I keep an eye out for pressure signs as I work up.

Let us know how you make out.

 

[TackDriver284]

• Welcome to the forum, each rifle, barrels, bullet, powder are different. Manufacturer manuals differ from each other, they test with their own bullets, powders, test rifles. I did a copy paste from my earlier post. Best solution is to start 10% lower than max, and carefully work up seeking pressure and velocity along the way. Use a chronograph to measure your velocity. I use manuals as a guide, but I lean on what the target, the rifle's reactions, chronograph, and pressure show me and I work around these results. There are many folks on this forum that you can rely on for wealth of information.
  
  Component Variations:
  Each reloading manual uses different components for their load data, and these components can vary across manufacturers.
  • Bullet Construction: Bullet weight, diameter, and design (e.g., jacket type, core material) all affect pressure and velocity, leading to different optimal charge weights.
  • Powder Lot and Type: Powder lot variations and different powder types (even within the same name) can have different burn rates, impacting charge weights.
  • Primer Type: Primer type can also affect the load's performance and pressure, leading to different recommended charge weights.
  • Case Brand: Case dimensions (internal and external) can affect how much powder a case can hold and how the pressure is generated, leading to different charge weights.
• Testing Methodologies:
  Different manuals may use different testing methods and equipment, which can lead to variations in the data.
  • SAAMI Standards: While all manuals should adhere to SAAMI standards, there can be subtle differences in how these standards are interpreted and implemented, leading to slight variations in the data.
  • Chronograph and Pressure Measurement: The type of chronograph and pressure measurement equipment used can also affect the data.
• "Work Up" Philosophy:
  Reloading manuals always recommend starting with lower loads and working up to a maximum load, as different firearms and components can react differently to the same load data.

 

[RL338]

My Nosler #7 list 11 grs.

 

[JD338]

That seems like a pretty big discrepancy. Test equipment and component differences could be the reason.
As suggested, I would reduce the load and work up.

JD338

 

[Gos]

From my Nosler Manual.

 

[RL338]

The rest of your data matches up well with my #7 data. 118% would be a tough one to load , wondering if they backed it down to 11grs for that. 11gr velocity are the same in both.

 

[PJGunner]

As I understand it, the various cartridges are loaded to a Maximum Allowable Pressure (MAP) and most reloading data is set at that level as well. Some cartridges are deliberately underloaded for safety due to rifles made in earlier years that are considered too weak for modern pressures or have a known factor for problems. Sometimes the powers that be decide what pressure their named cartridge should be loaded to, sometimes for reasons unknown.

Since the change from Copper Units of Pressure (C.U.P.) to Piezo testing, (P.S.I.)quite a few cartridges have had their MAP figure lowered yet stayed the same. That a cartridge the has been rated an MAP of 60KPSI via the C.U.P. method that is tested by the Piezo method and pressures are running to say 65KPSI. The manufacturers are required to lower the loads to match the pressure shown by the newer method of testing. Basically, Winchester, Remington or Federal making ammunition for the various firearms must not exceed the MAP and the easiest way it to not quite load to that pressure level. If random cartridges are pulled while a lot is being run and test fired for pressure has even one cartridge exceed the MAP the whole lot is scrapped and usable components salvaged.

Running factory ammo over the chronograph can be an eye opening experience.
Paul B.

 

[Gos]

As I understand it, the various cartridges are loaded to a Maximum Allowable Pressure (MAP) and most reloading data is set at that level as well. Some cartridges are deliberately underloaded for safety due to rifles made in earlier years that are considered too weak for modern pressures or have a known factor for problems. Sometimes the powers that be decide what pressure their named cartridge should be loaded to, sometimes for reasons unknown.

Since the change from Copper Units of Pressure (C.U.P.) to Piezo testing, (P.S.I.)quite a few cartridges have had their MAP figure lowered yet stayed the same. That a cartridge the has been rated an MAP of 60KPSI via the C.U.P. method that is tested by the Piezo method and pressures are running to say 65KPSI. The manufacturers are required to lower the loads to match the pressure shown by the newer method of testing. Basically, Winchester, Remington or Federal making ammunition for the various firearms must not exceed the MAP and the easiest way it to not quite load to that pressure level. If random cartridges are pulled while a lot is being run and test fired for pressure has even one cartridge exceed the MAP the whole lot is scrapped and usable components salvaged.

Running factory ammo over the chronograph can be an eye opening experience.
Paul B.

You lost me. Do I follow the Nosler book, or website data?

 

[TackDriver284]

The rest of your data matches up well with my #7 data. 118% would be a tough one to load , wondering if they backed it down to 11grs for that. 11gr velocity are the same in both.

I agree, 13 grains with powder fill at 118% is a tough pill to swallow. I would drop 10% from 11 grains and work up. 10 grains is a reasonable number to start with.

 

[PJGunner]

You lost me. Do I follow the Nosler book, or website data?

At what point did I lose you?
Paul B.

 

[Gos]

At what point did I lose you?
Paul B.

My question is do I follow the Nosler book, or Nosler site? I didn't get a definitive answer by reading your post.

 

[jimbires]

the lowest minimum charge listed in the above info is 9.0 grain of LIL GUN . you could start there . then you can work towards the highest max charge listed above 13grain . if you have a chronograph use it . watch for pressure signs as you work up

 

[Johnly]

I would recommend this loading article.

Working with the 22 hornet by m.l. mc pherson. winter 2012

Working with the 22 hornet by m.l. mc pherson. winter 2012 - Download as a PDF or view online for free

www.slideshare.net

My Ruger M77/22H shoots way better with MP-300 as compared to Lil'Gun with 40 gr. bullets. The MP-300 was slightly slower, but had a much lower SD as compared to Lil'Gun. H110/WW296 is also a good powder choice for the Hornet. SP primers generally give better results than SR primers in the tiny Hornet case.

40	Hornady V-Max	11.5	MP-300	Fed 100	R-P	1.760"	2770
40	Hornady V-Max	11.7	MP-300	Fed 100	R-P	1.760"	2786
40	Hornady V-Max	11.9	MP-300	Fed 100	R-P	1.760"	2789
40	Hornady V-Max	12.1	MP-300	Fed 100	R-P	1.760"	2842
40	Hornady V-Max	12.3	MP-300	Fed 100	R-P	1.760"	2898
40	Nosler Varmigeddon	12.3	MP-300	Fed 100	R-P	1.760"	2863
40	Nosler Varmigeddon	12.3	MP-300	Fed 100	R-P	1.760"	2926

 

[Gos]

I would recommend this loading article.

Working with the 22 hornet by m.l. mc pherson. winter 2012

Working with the 22 hornet by m.l. mc pherson. winter 2012 - Download as a PDF or view online for free

www.slideshare.net

My Ruger M77/22H shoots way better with MP-300 as compared to Lil'Gun with 40 gr. bullets. The MP-300 was slightly slower, but had a much lower SD as compared to Lil'Gun. H110/WW296 is also a good powder choice for the Hornet. SP primers generally give better results than SR primers in the tiny Hornet case.

40	Hornady V-Max	11.5	MP-300	Fed 100	R-P	1.760"	2770
40	Hornady V-Max	11.7	MP-300	Fed 100	R-P	1.760"	2786
40	Hornady V-Max	11.9	MP-300	Fed 100	R-P	1.760"	2789
40	Hornady V-Max	12.1	MP-300	Fed 100	R-P	1.760"	2842
40	Hornady V-Max	12.3	MP-300	Fed 100	R-P	1.760"	2898
40	Nosler Varmigeddon	12.3	MP-300	Fed 100	R-P	1.760"	2863
40	Nosler Varmigeddon	12.3	MP-300	Fed 100	R-P	1.760"	2926

Thanks. I have to stay very close to 1.723" to fit in the Savage magazine.