221 FB QL Data Request

Johnly

Beginner
Dec 12, 2020
56
38
I'm a believer that there isn't a free lunch so to say, and that higher than expected velocities come with higher than expected pressures.
I worked up the the Hodgdon maximum load and the accuracy was improving as the charge weight was increased. At 16 gr. the primers still looked normal, but that is a pretty fuzzy way to estimate pressure. The next trip to the range I took my chronograph and to my shock the bullets were traveling at 3600 fps. I've put thousands of rounds over this very chronograph and have a high level of confidence in its recorded values. The measured velocity was 150 fps higher than Gordon's calculated, so I was hoping to add OL data to help sort things out. I would greatly appreciate QL ladders using Lil'Gun with the 40 gr. Sierra HP at a LOA of 1.875" and 40 gr. Nosler BT at 1.960 LOA.

Hodgdon Website Data:
16.0 Hodgdon Lil'Gun 40 gr. Nosler BT 1.830" LOA 49k CUP 3384 fps
Gordons's Reloading Tool
16.0 Hodgdon Lil'Gun 40 gr. Nosler BT 1.960" LOA 3460 fps
CZ 527 221 FB 22" barrel
16.0 Hodgdon Lil'Gun 40 gr. Nosler BT 1.960" LOA 3619 fps

Much Appreciated!
John
 

DrMike

Ballistician
Nov 8, 2006
35,447
2,208
Not precisely following you on your request, John. However, this is what I believe you are asking.

Code:
Cartridge          : .221 Rem Fireball
Bullet             : .224, 40, Nosler BalTip 39510
Useable Case Capaci: 19.333 grain H2O = 1.255 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 1.830 inch = 46.48 mm
Barrel Length      : 22.0 inch = 558.8 mm
Powder             : Hodgdon Lil'Gun

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 1.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step    Fill. Charge   Vel.  Energy   Pmax   Pmuz  Prop.Burnt B_Time
 %       %    Grains   fps   ft.lbs    psi    psi      %        ms

-10.0   78    14.40   3059     831   35262   4657    100.0    1.000
-09.0   79    14.56   3086     846   36363   4680    100.0    0.988
-08.0   80    14.72   3114     861   37496   4702    100.0    0.975
-07.0   80    14.88   3141     876   38663   4722    100.0    0.963
-06.0   81    15.04   3168     892   39864   4742    100.0    0.950
-05.0   82    15.20   3195     907   41101   4762    100.0    0.938
-04.0   83    15.36   3222     922   42376   4782    100.0    0.926  ! Near Maximum !
-03.0   84    15.52   3248     937   43688   4801    100.0    0.915  ! Near Maximum !
-02.0   85    15.68   3275     952   45039   4820    100.0    0.903  ! Near Maximum !
-01.0   86    15.84   3301     968   46430   4839    100.0    0.892  ! Near Maximum !
+00.0   86    16.00   3327     983   47863   4857    100.0    0.881  ! Near Maximum !
+01.0   87    16.16   3352     998   49339   4876    100.0    0.870  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+02.0   88    16.32   3378    1013   50860   4894    100.0    0.860  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+03.0   89    16.48   3403    1029   52426   4911    100.0    0.849  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+04.0   90    16.64   3428    1044   54039   4929    100.0    0.839  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+05.0   91    16.80   3454    1059   55702   4946    100.0    0.829  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba     86    16.00   3428    1044   57760   4666    100.0    0.823  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba     86    16.00   3170     892   38242   5095     99.4    0.961

Code:
Cartridge          : .221 Rem Fireball
Bullet             : .224, 40, Nosler BalTip 39510
Useable Case Capaci: 20.630 grain H2O = 1.339 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 1.960 inch = 49.78 mm
Barrel Length      : 22.0 inch = 558.8 mm
Powder             : Hodgdon Lil'Gun

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 1.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step    Fill. Charge   Vel.  Energy   Pmax   Pmuz  Prop.Burnt B_Time
 %       %    Grains   fps   ft.lbs    psi    psi      %        ms

-10.0   73    14.40   2994     796   31998   4757     99.8    1.040
-09.0   74    14.56   3021     810   32946   4786     99.9    1.028
-08.0   75    14.72   3048     825   33921   4812    100.0    1.016
-07.0   75    14.88   3075     840   34922   4837    100.0    1.004
-06.0   76    15.04   3101     854   35951   4860    100.0    0.992
-05.0   77    15.20   3127     869   37008   4882    100.0    0.981
-04.0   78    15.36   3153     883   38095   4903    100.0    0.969
-03.0   79    15.52   3179     898   39211   4925    100.0    0.957
-02.0   79    15.68   3205     912   40358   4946    100.0    0.945
-01.0   80    15.84   3230     927   41536   4967    100.0    0.934
+00.0   81    16.00   3256     941   42747   4988    100.0    0.923  ! Near Maximum !
+01.0   82    16.16   3281     956   43991   5008    100.0    0.912  ! Near Maximum !
+02.0   83    16.32   3306     971   45269   5028    100.0    0.901  ! Near Maximum !
+03.0   83    16.48   3330     985   46583   5048    100.0    0.890  ! Near Maximum !
+04.0   84    16.64   3355    1000   47932   5068    100.0    0.880  ! Near Maximum !
+05.0   85    16.80   3379    1014   49319   5088    100.0    0.870  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba     81    16.00   3360    1003   51402   4794    100.0    0.860  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba     81    16.00   3094     850   34329   5195     99.0    1.005

Code:
Cartridge          : .221 Rem Fireball
Bullet             : .224, 40, Sierra HP 1385
Useable Case Capaci: 20.679 grain H2O = 1.343 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 1.830 inch = 46.48 mm
Barrel Length      : 22.0 inch = 558.8 mm
Powder             : Hodgdon Lil'Gun

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 1.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step    Fill. Charge   Vel.  Energy   Pmax   Pmuz  Prop.Burnt B_Time
 %       %    Grains   fps   ft.lbs    psi    psi      %        ms

-10.0   73    14.40   2991     795   31889   4762     99.8    1.041
-09.0   73    14.56   3018     809   32832   4791     99.9    1.029
-08.0   74    14.72   3045     824   33802   4818    100.0    1.017
-07.0   75    14.88   3072     838   34797   4842    100.0    1.005
-06.0   76    15.04   3098     853   35821   4865    100.0    0.993
-05.0   77    15.20   3125     867   36872   4887    100.0    0.982
-04.0   78    15.36   3151     882   37953   4909    100.0    0.971
-03.0   78    15.52   3177     896   39063   4931    100.0    0.959
-02.0   79    15.68   3202     911   40203   4952    100.0    0.947  ! Near Maximum !
-01.0   80    15.84   3228     925   41375   4973    100.0    0.935  ! Near Maximum !
+00.0   81    16.00   3253     940   42578   4994    100.0    0.924  ! Near Maximum !
+01.0   82    16.16   3278     954   43815   5014    100.0    0.913  ! Near Maximum !
+02.0   82    16.32   3303     969   45085   5035    100.0    0.902  ! Near Maximum !
+03.0   83    16.48   3328     984   46391   5055    100.0    0.892  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+04.0   84    16.64   3352     998   47732   5075    100.0    0.881  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+05.0   85    16.80   3377    1013   49110   5094    100.0    0.871  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba     81    16.00   3358    1001   51192   4800    100.0    0.862  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba     81    16.00   3092     849   34200   5200     99.0    1.006
 

Johnly

Beginner
Dec 12, 2020
56
38
Much appreciated. It somewhat comforting to know that your simulations pretty well match up with those I did.
The accuracy node in my rifle seems to be between 15.5 and 16.0, so it's time to more closely explore that region.
 

frankm

Handloader
May 10, 2009
420
25
I worked up to the Hodgkin max LilGun load of 16 grs with 40 VMax years ago …. Too hot for my gun. Stiff bolt, primer pocket expansion in one firing, etc. Backed off to 15.4 grs and helped out. Don’t like case fill with LilGun so that ll go into my Shotshells loading.

Went to AA1680 at 18 grs but ES wasn’t good when I tested just a few days ago. Worked up to 19.0 grs and ES went to 35-40 fps. Shot 3/8” 100 yard groups at 3400 fps at 80 degrees. I m done!! That’s my load.

Good luck with whichever direction you go.
 

xphunter

Handloader
Sep 15, 2005
540
865
John,
My Fireball likes IMR4227 with a 50 grain V-Max.
Just a heads up if you switch or can switch powder.
 
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