243 Ladder Test

[smoothie25]

Did a ladder Test with 70gr varmageddon and H4350 today. Started at book min of 42gr and went up .3 increments to 47gr. Didn't see any pressure signs with my last shot but not comfortable going more than a grain higher than book max. Test was done at 350 yards and had a 5-7mph wind from my 4oclock. Let me know how you guys interpret this. Thanks

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[TackDriver284]

It could be that the wind affected #7 with a slight breeze and drifted to the left or an error on your part. I think #6,7 and 8 looks promising to start with.

 

[jimbires]

when I've shot ladders and nothing seemed to jump out at me , I'd either reshoot the ladder if I thought I was having an off day ,or I'd reshoot it at 100 yards longer distance if I thought I was really on my game . the last couple ladders I shot I did the seating depth test first . this just seemed to make more sense to me . I would load 3 rounds at the different seating depths and find my preferred seating depth first . I do this at mininum powder charge and shoot at 100 yards . then I shot my ladder to find my powder charge nodes .

if I were doing this I would find a decent bullet seating depth first . I would shoot my first ladder at 300 yards in half grain powder increments ,and try to get a overcast , calm wind day . hopefully a node or two jumps out on this first ladder . then I work the nodes in .3 grain powder increments . starting below the node and going up past the node . I'd shoot this next ladder at 400 yards . you can just keep fine tuning by lowering the powder charge and adding distance to the target .when I think I've found the best powder charge , I'd reshoot a 100yard seating depth test to fine tune it . I don't know if any of my suggestions will help you out , I hope so . good luck and keep us posted . Jim

 

[Dwh7271]

5-6, 9-10,16-17
I'd mess around near the 16 and 17 if no pressure issues.

 

[jimbires]

Dewey , I was looking at 4-5 and 9-10 . but I don't like where 3 & 6 are , or where 8 & 11 are . they look to be small nodes .

now that I'm looking again , maybe 16 - 17 - 18 not to bad ?

seems to be a lot of horizontal on this ladder . I wonder how much the wind messed with the vertical ?

 

[TackDriver284]

Did you wait a considerable amount of time between shots? Heated barrels will cause some variations.

Jim, Yes, #9 and 10 and also # 16 and 17 looks promising as well, but its only .3 grain between them. Would it make variations with temperature change? Not trying to burst anyone's bubble here or insult anyone's intelligence and experience, we all can learn from other's experiences.

Also its hard to judge with very light 70 grain bullets at that distance for an accurate judgement with wind almost broadside. I would prefer 3 shot group load development at 100 yards in .3 increments and tweak after that. Just my preference, everyone has their own preference.

Heavier bullets will buck the wind better for ladder testing beyond 350 yards.

 

[jimbires]

tack driver , I see your 6 -7 -8 now . ( I thought 7 was between 4 -5 ) 6-7-8 and 16-17-18 both look to have an inch or less vertical with a 0.6 grain powder change .

another question for smoothie , was the bbl clean to do the ladder ? and was it fouled before shooting the ladder , with the same bullet and powder that you shot the ladder with ?

 

[jimbires]

Did you wait a considerable amount of time between shots? Heated barrels will cause some variations.

Jim, Yes, #9 and 10 and also # 16 and 17 looks promising as well, but its only .3 grain between them. Would it make variations with temperature change? Not trying to burst anyone's bubble here or insult anyone's intelligence and experience, we all can learn from other's experiences.

Also its hard to judge with very light 70 grain bullets at that distance for an accurate judgement with wind almost broadside. I would prefer 3 shot group load development at 100 yards in .3 increments and tweak after that. Just my preference, everyone has their own preference.

Heavier bullets will buck the wind better for ladder testing beyond 350 yards.

Tac driver , ( you type to fast ) we are agreeing on this . two shots together are not enough being it's only .3 grains of powder . I'm looking for 3 shots together . that's why I said I don't like shots 8 & 11 or shots 3 & 6 . your not breaking my bubble , this is how we learn . I hope smoothie doesn't take my first post the wrong way. I'm not trying to put him down at all .

 

[smoothie25]

No offense taken Jim. Thanks for everyone's input. I'm still pretty green at load development so I'm learning here. I decided to load up cases at #17(46.8gr) powder charge and do a seating depth test. If it doesn't shoot well I'll try a seating depth test at #7(43.8gr). Planning to shoot it tomorrow morning if the wind isn't too gusty. More to come...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[TackDriver284]

Smoothie, try 3 round charges from #6,7 and 8 as 43.5, 43.8 and 44.1 and #16,17 and 18 as 46.5, 46.8 and 47.1 in .3 and see how it does. If it does not work for you, go back to the load development at .3 increments from your lowest load to your highest, I normally start in middle between minimum and maximum as shown in reloading manuals and online data and work up from there for best velocity / accuracy. If you do not succeed in finding your load, I suggest you try other powders.

 

[Charlie-NY]

Ladder tests often seem to present more questions than answers. I'll bet if you duplicated the same ladder test that your results would be different. Either way, it would be a good way to determine if any definitive information was obtained in the first test.

 

[Dwh7271]

Smoothie, try 3 round charges from #6,7 and 8 as 43.5, 43.8 and 44.1 and #16,17 and 18 as 46.5, 46.8 and 47.1 in .3 and see how it does. If it does not work for you, go back to the load development at .3 increments from your lowest load to your highest, I normally start in middle between minimum and maximum as shown in reloading manuals and online data and work up from there for best velocity / accuracy. If you do not succeed in finding your load, I suggest you try other powders.

This.
Good call TD.
Fun stuff isn't it Jim? I always enjoy new load tests.

 

[waveslayer]

Smoothie have you looked into doing a simple OCW test by DAN Newberry? It will save you a lot of trouble and guess work.

You only need a simple 100 yards to do the test. If you want more info PM and I can email over all the goodies for it.

The OCW will take into account clean, dirty barrels, cold, warm and hot barrels. It's a much better load development too then the old ladder test.

My wife thinks I only have 3 guns

 

[jimbires]

yes I do enjoy this , Dewey .

I don't remember any of my ladders having so much horizontal , it must be the wind on these light bullets .


the last couple of ladders I shot I found a decent seating depth first . I figured that if I shot a ladder at a very poor seating depth I could skew the target enough to show incorrect nodes . I don't know if this theory holds true or not , but I guess I felt better doing it this way .

smoothie , let us know how this turns out .

 

[waveslayer]

A proper ladder test allows you to ignore any horizontal stringing. Don't worry about wind or its point of impact compared to other loads.

You are only testing the vertical spread to find nodes. That's what a Ladder test does

My wife thinks I only have 3 guns

 

[Dwh7271]

Here's the link to the system waveslayer mentioned.
If it matters, this is a good system. It lets you deal with small powder differences, some temperature variations and some others and still hit where you want IMO.

http://www.optimalchargeweight.embarqspace.com/ocw-instructions/4529817134

 

[smoothie25]

Finally got a chance to shoot a seating depth test at load 17 (46.8gr). The results were disappointing to say the least. Shots were made at 100yards and no wind off a bipod and rear bag. I felt pretty steady on all the shots. Waited several minutes between shots, it was 25 outside that day so barrel never got warm.

Oddly enough, I noticed a couple cases that looked to have some ejector marks and case swipe. Marks were pretty subtle but I'm concerned that pressure might be dangerous if I shoot this round in warmer weather. The streaks that run through the WIN were there before I shot. The swipe that I'm referring to is between the W and 2 on both cases. Let me know what you guys think.

I'm thinking of running a seating depth test at load 7 (43.6gr) and see how it goes.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[jimbires]

smoothie , I was worried about your first ladder results . I just can't ignore about 10 inches of horizontal and expect the wind to not change vertical at all . yes , try the lower node .