25 WSSM for Elk?

[buckgitter]

I have a Browning Composite Stalker 25 WSSM and I am really starting to like it. Its a great carrying little rifle and I was wandering about using it for elk hunting. I have a 300 wsm that I normally use but this rifle is really starting to grow on me. I am thinking AccuBond or Partitions would do the trick....Any feedback is appreciated!!

Chris

 

[BeeTee]

I've been intrigued by the 25 WSSM for a while now. Tempted to try it, maybe for my daughter. But... I'd like to know why is has apparently been dropped by the rifle manufacturers.

Sure it'll kill an elk with the heavier AB/PT. It's close to the 25-06 in velocities. And it's a lot more powerful than many of the cartridges used through time that have killed lots of elk.

However, elk hunting can be difficult and sometimes requires a huge investment in time, money and effort. Plus, so few shots are taken and a big bull can be tough. I'd opt for a bigger gun and err on the side of more power than necessary, which can mean success even with a less than perfect hit. Just my opinion. I killed my first elk at 15 years old, a 5x5 bull in 1967 - with a 300 H&H. Jim

 

[buckgitter]

I've been intrigued by the 25 WSSM for a while now. Tempted to try it, maybe for my daughter. But... I'd like to know why is has apparently been dropped by the rifle manufacturers.

Sure it'll kill an elk with the heavier AB/PT. It's close to the 25-06 in velocities. And it's a lot more powerful than many of the cartridges used through time that have killed lots of elk.

However, elk hunting can be difficult and sometimes requires a huge investment in time, money and effort. Plus, so few shots are taken and a big bull can be tough. I'd opt for a bigger gun and err on the side of more power than necessary, which can mean success even with a less than perfect hit. Just my opinion. I killed my first elk at 15 years old, a 5x5 bull in 1967 - with a 300 H&H. Jim

I hear ya Jim..I don't get out there to hunt very often and usually carry enough weapon in my 300 to get the job done. I guess I am trying to push the lower limits. If used I would most certainly use a 120 gr Partition or maybe a 110 gr AccuBond. Decisions decisions...LOL

 

[YoteSmoker]

I heard it had feeding issues along with the other wssm's. Don't have any first hand experience though so take it for what it's worth.

 

[Gm weatherby man]

The one I shot in a wincheter rifle shot great, feed like shit though. I do have faith in a accubonds getting er done though from that casing. :wink:

 

[nshunter]

I have a m70 super shadow in .243 wssm and have only had one difficult round to feed out of hundreds fired. I was also considering the .25 wssm as an elk rifle when I lived in Calgary, but decided it was a bit on the light side. It would probably work but why take the chance. If you're shot placement wasn't perfect you may lose the bull of a lifetime.

 

[wildgene]

...I've taken mule deer w/ the 120gr. HPBT Sierra GameKings & Speer GrandSlams, both have shown excellent expansion/ penetration, I'm getting sub-MOA & almost 3200FPS w/ 44.5grs. of RL-17 out of my Browning Varmint Stalker, but, between me, the rifle, & the Accubonds, so far we can't seem to come to an agreement. If it's what I had to shoot an elk w/ I wouldn't have a problem taking the shot, but I'd be pretty particular which shot I took...

 

[Antelope_Sniper]

I wouldn't take it. Not if I had a perfectly good .300 WSM.

 

[DrMike]

It will work, especially if everything is perfect and stars are aligned correctly. I'd be more comfortable with more rifle (larger frontal area, more mass).

 

[FOTIS]

120 Partition at 2850 fps or better and good shot placement.

 

[Guy Miner]

Yesterday, anticipating that we'd be hunting more open, broken country, I was carrying my .25-06 for elk or bear, with 115 gr Nosler Partitions. Turns out we found a deep, dark, intriguing draw to hunt. Pretty heavy vegetation and ranges would have been short. If we get back in there for elk & bear, I'm leaving the .25-06 at home and going with something heavier. I want a big blood trail to follow in that stuff. Nasty steep and thick in parts of it...

Back in more open country, I'm intent on carrying the .25-06 again. This is for cow elk. Right here on this forum I've read of a lot of success with the .25-06 & .257 Wby on elk. A couple of guys in town here have told me of success on elk with their .25's as well.

I've never shot a .25 WSSM. What sort of velocity does it produce with a 100, 110, 115 or 120 grain bullet? For elk, I'd tend towards the heavier end of the .25 cal bullet range.

Heck, I just looked it up on Hodgdon's web site - looks like it produces pretty much the same ballistics as I'd expect from a .25-06 rifle.

Guy

 

[wildgene]

...pretty much, I'm actually getting a little better velocities w/ the .25 WSSM than the .25-06...

 

[Guy Miner]

Interesting. With a 24" factory barreled .25-06 I'm seeing:

100 gr @ 3340 fps (have run faster, but start losing accuracy)

115 gr @ 3190 fps (I don't want to lean any harder on these)

Guy

 

[wildgene]

Interesting. With a 24" factory barreled .25-06 I'm seeing:

100 gr @ 3340 fps (have run faster, but start losing accuracy)

115 gr @ 3190 fps (I don't want to lean any harder on these)

Guy

...I don't really shoot any 100gr. bullets...

...75gr. V-Max & Sierra HPs avg. MV 52gr. RL-17 3880fps
...85gr. NBT's 48gr. IMR-4350 3345fps
...87gr. TNT/ 90gr.BlitzKings 51gr. RL-17 3583fps
...90gr. BlitzKings 51.5gr. Superformance 3311fps
...115gr. VLDs 44.5gr. RL-17 3192fps
...117gr. Sierra SBT, 120gr. HPBT GK, GrandSlam 44.5gr. RL-17 3210fps

...all were accurate enough (sub-MOA) to chronograph & most are about .5grs below book max...

 

[FOTIS]

Cartridge : .25 WSSM
Bullet : .257, 120, Nosler PART SP 35643
Useable Case Capaci: 48.067 grain H2O = 3.121 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.360 inch = 59.94 mm
Barrel Length : 24.0 inch = 609.6 mm

Predicted Data for Indicated Charges of the Following Powders.
Matching Maximum Pressure: 62000 psi, or 427 MPa
or a maximum loading ratio or filling of 109 %
These calculations refer to your specified settings in QuickLOAD 'Cartridge Dimensions' window.
C A U T I O N : any load listed can result in a powder charge that falls below minimum suggested
loads or exceeds maximum suggested loads as presented in current handloading manuals. Understand
that all of the listed powders can be unsuitable for the given combination of cartridge, bullet
and gun. Actual load order can vary, depending upon lot-to-lot powder and component variations.
USE ONLY FOR COMPARISON !

126 loads produced a Loading Ratio below user-defined minimum of 90%. These powders have been skipped.
Powder type Filling/Loading Ratio Charge Charge Vel. Prop.Burnt P max P muzz B_Time
% Grains Gramm fps % psi psi ms
--------------------------------- -----------------------------------------------------------------
Norma MRP 107.4 49.7 3.22 3129 99.5 62000 11651 1.132 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N560 109.0 49.3 3.20 3110 96.9 61924 11787 1.131 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate MAGPRO 109.0 51.3 3.33 3088 95.3 61254 11765 1.142 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 7828 SSC 107.2 48.8 3.16 3086 97.2 62000 11374 1.125 ! Near Maximum !
Bofors RP5/NP ~approximation 109.0 48.8 3.16 3082 98.4 61252 11383 1.141 ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-22 109.0 48.8 3.16 3082 98.4 61252 11383 1.141 ! Near Maximum !
Raufoss RA15 109.0 48.8 3.16 3082 98.4 61252 11383 1.141 ! Near Maximum !
ADI AR 2213 108.1 48.4 3.14 3069 97.1 62000 11257 1.126 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H4350 100.8 44.4 2.88 3045 99.9 62000 10420 1.135 ! Near Maximum !
Somchem S365 103.3 45.5 2.95 3044 100.0 62000 9829 1.149 ! Near Maximum !
Ramshot Hunter 101.1 46.3 3.00 3043 99.8 62000 10572 1.143 ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-19 105.7 46.8 3.03 3043 98.4 62000 10840 1.138 ! Near Maximum !
ADI AR 2209 105.0 46.3 3.00 3041 98.3 62000 10758 1.131 ! Near Maximum !
Winchester 760 95.5 44.7 2.90 3038 99.4 62000 10578 1.146 ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-17 93.2 43.3 2.81 3035 100.0 62000 9971 1.132 ! Near Maximum !
Bofors RP14 ~approximation 106.4 47.1 3.06 3035 98.3 62000 10756 1.139 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4350 103.3 43.9 2.84 3028 99.6 62000 10366 1.142 ! Near Maximum !
Norma URP 100.7 44.1 2.86 3024 100.0 62000 10133 1.150 ! Near Maximum !
Bofors RP19 ~approximation 100.7 44.1 2.86 3023 100.0 62000 10131 1.150 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N550 97.8 44.3 2.87 3023 100.0 62000 10265 1.155 ! Near Maximum !
Ramshot Magnum (Big Boy) 109.0 51.7 3.35 3023 96.7 57365 11399 1.164 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 4350 104.5 44.3 2.87 3020 100.0 62000 10102 1.166 ! Near Maximum !
Raufoss RA4 103.4 45.8 2.97 3014 98.1 62000 10533 1.140 ! Near Maximum !
Norma 204 100.1 45.8 2.97 3014 98.1 62000 10533 1.140 ! Near Maximum !
Bofors RP4 ~approximation 103.4 45.8 2.97 3014 98.1 62000 10533 1.140 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H414 93.0 43.9 2.85 3014 99.4 62000 10413 1.155 ! Near Maximum !
SNPE Vectan SP 12 109.0 51.6 3.34 3013 96.7 56808 11353 1.170 ! Near Maximum !
PB Clermont PCL 517 109.0 51.6 3.34 3008 96.5 56481 11352 1.173 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H4831 SC 106.6 47.8 3.10 3007 96.4 62000 10587 1.137 ! Near Maximum !
Rottweil R905 109.0 47.9 3.11 3006 96.3 59131 10903 1.162 ! Near Maximum !
Somchem S385 105.9 47.4 3.07 3005 99.0 62000 10376 1.158 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4831 105.6 44.8 2.90 3005 100.0 62000 9909 1.159 ! Near Maximum !
Ramshot BigGame 93.9 43.0 2.78 3002 100.0 62000 9757 1.150 ! Near Maximum !
SNPE Vectan SP 11 94.0 43.0 2.79 3001 100.0 62000 9744 1.150 ! Near Maximum !
Winchester WXR 109.0 47.8 3.10 2993 97.4 55669 11155 1.192 ! Near Maximum !
Winchester Supreme 780 104.0 48.6 3.15 2990 98.2 62000 10258 1.143 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4895 92.7 39.7 2.58 2987 100.0 62000 9183 1.136 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon Hybrid 100V 107.0 44.3 2.87 2983 100.0 62000 9317 1.150 ! Near Maximum !
Raufoss RA11 91.5 40.5 2.63 2982 100.0 62000 9626 1.158 ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-15 91.5 40.5 2.63 2982 100.0 62000 9626 1.158 ! Near Maximum !
Bofors RP11 ~approximation 91.5 40.5 2.63 2982 100.0 62000 9626 1.158 ! Near Maximum !
Rottweil R904 104.1 45.5 2.95 2979 97.2 62000 10228 1.144 ! Near Maximum !
Norma 203B 91.9 40.7 2.64 2979 100.0 62000 9548 1.159 ! Near Maximum !
Lovex-S0701 100.1 43.9 2.84 2978 99.4 62000 10031 1.162 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H380 92.8 42.0 2.72 2976 100.0 62000 9772 1.161 ! Near Maximum !
Norma 203 old 93.2 41.8 2.71 2968 100.0 62000 9399 1.172 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4320 93.5 40.7 2.64 2964 100.0 62000 9279 1.145 ! Near Maximum !
Rottweil R903 95.3 41.8 2.71 2963 100.0 62000 9319 1.172 ! Near Maximum !
Somchem S355 95.4 41.4 2.68 2958 100.0 62000 9332 1.166 ! Near Maximum !
Lovex-S0651 98.9 42.9 2.78 2955 99.8 62000 9669 1.163 ! Near Maximum !
Rottweil R907 97.6 42.5 2.75 2954 99.0 62000 9839 1.158 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4007 SSC 94.6 42.5 2.75 2953 99.0 62000 9832 1.158 ! Near Maximum !
ADI AP 2214 109.0 50.1 3.25 2953 95.8 55945 10830 1.179 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 7828 109.0 46.9 3.04 2952 95.5 53758 10985 1.200
Hodgdon H4831 109.0 46.9 3.04 2950 95.6 58185 10418 1.169 ! Near Maximum !
ADI AR 2208 94.0 40.4 2.62 2947 100.0 62000 9298 1.149 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon VARGET 94.3 40.4 2.62 2947 100.0 62000 9298 1.149 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4064 94.8 39.7 2.57 2938 100.0 62000 9110 1.154 ! Near Maximum !
Lovex-S0621 92.5 39.9 2.58 2931 100.0 62000 8965 1.168 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 3031 90.8 37.6 2.44 2931 100.0 62000 8632 1.165 ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-25 109.0 48.0 3.11 2931 99.3 50071 10957 1.240
Hodgdon H4895 94.0 40.3 2.61 2929 100.0 62000 8789 1.153 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 4064 97.1 40.2 2.61 2924 100.0 62000 8807 1.194 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N165 109.0 47.8 3.10 2921 98.1 57414 9957 1.187 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N150 100.6 42.0 2.72 2914 100.0 62000 8780 1.166 ! Near Maximum !
Rottweil R902 91.5 39.1 2.53 2913 100.0 62000 8814 1.172 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N540 91.3 40.9 2.65 2912 100.0 62000 8792 1.166 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N140 96.9 41.2 2.67 2908 100.0 62000 8723 1.160 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N160 109.0 46.3 3.00 2905 96.4 58214 9870 1.180 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 2700 95.6 43.8 2.83 2903 98.8 62000 9268 1.163 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 2495 90.3 37.8 2.45 2895 100.0 62000 8472 1.201 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N135 96.8 38.9 2.52 2870 100.0 62000 8103 1.177 ! Near Maximum !
Norma MRP 2 109.0 48.3 3.13 2830 93.9 45167 11000 1.308
Vihtavuori N133 91.0 36.9 2.39 2815 100.0 62000 7623 1.169 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 3100 109.0 45.7 2.96 2813 98.5 49838 9787 1.290
Vihtavuori N570 109.0 50.9 3.30 2803 86.2 44044 11399 1.319
Hodgdon H1000 109.0 47.8 3.10 2771 92.8 46266 10228 1.288
Hodgdon Retumbo 109.0 48.6 3.15 2707 94.4 39949 10750 1.379

 

[wildgene]

...surprised to find RL-17 that far down the list, that low of max. load & high pressure. The Alliant, Speer, & Sierra loads seem to track pretty well w/ no pressure signs...

 

[DrMike]

Wildgene,

There is less than 100 fps between RL17 and MRP. It seems quite close in velocities.

 

[FOTIS]

Only a reference, not a panacea. :wink:

 

[SJB358]

I have thought about using my 264 for elk this year but I always come back to having better rifles starting at my 270WSM and they go up from there. I may use it someday but I really like the extra bullet weight the bigger rifles provide. You have a sweet 300 Chris. Might as well take it. I bet you'll be thankful for it. Heck, you could always take your 25WSSM as backup. Scotty

 

[cloverleaf]

I havent ingested all the infor in this thread, but my .02 on the 25 WSSM...... There is just not enough diference between it and the 25-06. Winchester screwed up. A 270 WSM case necked down to ,25 gets you in the territory of the 257 WBY. THAT in a short action might have sold a few rifles. But...what do I know? As to Elk. You are better off with the opinions of others here. I have nothing but sentmental faith in the 25. CL