25 WSSM for Elk?

[wildgene]

Only a reference, not a panacea. :wink:

...oh, I understand that QL is a guestimate, just like a ballistics program, but the gentlemen over on the WSSM board seem to agree that Alliant's velocities are fairly conservative, & testing (Rifle Magazine 01/11/ "Designer Powders) showed a significant increase over the published data.

...Superformance is another funny one, showing 100fps more velocity than other Hodgdon powders in the heavier .25 WSSM loads, @ 1000psi less pressure...

 

[DrMike]

Gene,

QL is actually a scientific projection based on the samples provided to the ballistician who wrote the program (Harmut Broemel). However, because of chamber differences, lot-to-lot variations in burn rates, differences in bearing surfaces, etc., it is the responsibility of those receiving the information to work up their loads in a safe manner. The data provided by bullet and powder manufacturers has been pressure tested, and within the parameters of the testing equipment falls within the standardised pressure limits.

 

[Mountain Goat]

I havent ingested all the infor in this thread, but my .02 on the 25 WSSM...... There is just not enough diference between it and the 25-06. Winchester screwed up. A 270 WSM case necked down to ,25 gets you in the territory of the 257 WBY. THAT in a short action might have sold a few rifles. But...what do I know? As to Elk. You are better off with the opinions of others here. I have nothing but sentmental faith in the 25. CL

The 25 SAUM would have worked for Remington really well. Chamber the SPS line with 26" barrels, and offer it in the Sendero as well. John Sundra had one made, and it did reach 257WBY velocities and was decent on barrel life. I can't remember the magazine or article title.

 

[FOTIS]

I agree. The 25 WSM (AKA Pronghorn) should have been created.

 

[buckgitter]

thanks for all the replies...accuracy should be no problem and I "usually " hit where I aim. But like some have said there is always a margin for error and the 300 will work the best. Until I have a few kill shots under its belt the 25 wssm will stay in the vault and the 300 will be the go to elk gun. I will see in the next 2 years how the bullets perform on whitetails and make a decision after that.
Again thanks for all the replies and who knows...if I draw a cow tag then I might just break out that 25 for that!

Chris

 

[SJB358]

I think your 300WSM will make you very happy when you are in Elk Country Chris. It is nice to have a little extra sometimes and the 300's makes nice extra. Scotty

 

[cloverleaf]

Fotis said it Sundra's rifle was dubbed the "Pronghorn" or 25 WSM. Some Day.....

 

[Elk Slayer]

I had to chime in on this subject. Back in 2007 I bought 2-25 wssm's. One is a M70 coyote laminate stainless. The other is a Browning A-bolt composite stalker. Both rifle's shoot a little different, and have there favorite loads. I do a lot of hand loading so I could care less if they stop making factory ammo. The best powder that I've found is the new Hodgdon Superformance. You get the best velocities and the lowest pressures. I know cuz I've used at least 5 other Hodgdon powders. My M70 Coyote is topped with a Leupold VX II 6x18-40 with a custom laser etched turret built by Kenton Industries. I regularly shoot it out to between 600-800 yards. On paper I get slightly under 1 moa using Nosler 115 BST's . However out to 550 yards I'm getting 4 and 1/2 inch groups. I tryed Berger 115 grain VLD's, but neither of my rifles would shoot them better then 1 1/2" at 100 yards. I've shot Antelope, Coyotes, bobcat, big Mule Deer, and a big 5x5 bull elk at 263 lasered yards. Nothing has ever lived that I've shot with it. I'm also gonna have to call the people that say it's on the light side for bigger game full of dung. It exceeds 1000 Lb. pounds of energy all the way out to about 630 yards using 115 grain BST's. At that range you want a high BC bullet that expands rapidly. Also a lighter kicking big game rifle (which the 25 wssm is) is much easier to shoot then a 300 wsm. I know I own a 300 wsm M70. 9 out of 10 times a shooter will shoot a lighter kicking rifle much better then a mule like the 300 wsm. Then end result is more dead animals period... I'm gonna use my 25 wssm for black bear this year, no hesitation out to 600 yards. I might even push it out to 700 yards just to say I did. I like all these bullets, the 115 Barnes TSX, Nosler 115 grain BST, Nosler 100 grain E-tip, and the 115 grain Berger VLD.

 

[Guy Miner]

Hey, welcome to the forum!

Keep us posted on your shooting and hunting. Good group of guys here.

Regards, Guy

 

[Elk Slayer]

I also would like to mention that using H-4350 I've exceeded velocities that are supposed to be possible with the 25 wssm. I'm getting 3100 FPS with max loads using H-4350 and Barnes 115 grain TSX bullets. I'll admit that signs of high pressure are evident, but I wouldn't hesitate to load them exactly the same. However Hodgdon Superformance with max loads are getting even higher velocities with no sign's of high pressure. I believe Superformance was designed for short fat cases. As for feeding issues the only problem I've had was with my Winchester M70 Coyote. It's really not a issue though because I rarely need to take a quick second shot, and it doesn't always bind up. My Browning A-bolt composite stalker doesn't bind ever and never has. It cycles and shoot's flawlessly every time. The 25 wssm is a great cartridge. It will get the same velocities as the 25-06 with heavy bullets using the right powder. It not only gets the same velocities as the 25-06 (published velocities) It uses a lot less powder to do it. I also love short actions, especially super short actions. I just bought a Winchester Model 70 Extreme Sporter ( a limited run rifle last year) in 300 wsm. After shooting it, I really don't like the way it kicks. I have a weatherby mark V accumark in 30-378 weatherby mag and the weatherby kicks a lot less then the Winchester. No, I think my favorite rifle is still my M70 coyote 25 wssm. I can hit damn near anything I want all the way out to 725 yards with it. The weatherby will do the same out to 1000 yards, but with a rediculous amount of muzzle blast and burnt powder.

 

[SJB358]

Sounds like a good round. Wished Winchester would bring it back around as I would give the WSSM a try in another M70 made in SC. I have a 270, 7, and 300WSM and they are great performers and I love the rifles. Great to have you aboard. Show us your rigs, they sound pretty sweet. Pictures of dead elk are always a plus as well!

 

[runtohunt]

I know 3 guys up in Oregon who shoot 257 Roys for everything. All three of these guys have taken multiple elk with the round all the way out to 500 yards. The interesting thing is that they all prefer the 100 grain BT and won't use anything else. 3 years ago, I decided to take my 257 and scored on a bull at 400 yards with the 110 AB.

If I were going to do it again, I would use the 100 grain e-tip, but I would limit my range to about 350 yards to achieve the 2300 FPS need to open the bullet completely.

That said, I would probably take the 300wsm, as long as you shoot it as well as the 25wsm

 

[6mm Remington]

Pictures of dead elk are always a plus as well!

25-06 120 gr. Nosler Partition, 3000 fps, 250 yards, one shot, ran 40 yards and dropped. Bullet entered where shown on a quartering shot and exited tight behind her right shoulder. This young mans first elk. He was prone with a bi-pod, had practiced a quite a bit with me and my son up to 300 yards, and they were drilling small targets and groups at that distance. Yes it's light for elk, but hard to argue with performance like that when for years the 270 Winchester with 130 gr. bullets has been doing the same thing. Yes the 300 WSM is better and I'll gladly say that right now! :mrgreen:

Someone wanted elk pictures :?: :shock: Young lads dad, Andy, and my son Jeff.

 

[Elk Slayer]

Nice to meet ya'll. I don't think there's any doubt that the 300 wsm is quite a bit more powerful, and a better elk cartridge. I just think that with the right bullet probably the 115 grain Nosler Ballistic tip, or 115 grain berger VLD You can easily take an elk out to 700 yards. I've shot my 25 wssm out to 850 yards quite a bit. I've found that past 750 yards the wind becomes pretty tough to dope with the .257 wssm, even with the highest B.C. bullets available. Every time I shoot I shoot 500 plus yards. The only time I shoot at 100-200 yards is when I'm fine tuning my zero. So I guess it really depends on your skill set. Some people don't have any business shooting past 300 yards, cuz they don't put in the time. I've probably shot both my 25 wssm's, combined 1000 times. So I guess I know those things really well, and I'm no average Joe. I shoot up and down angles, and I go out on purpose on windy days just to get to know my dope. I'll post up some of my hunting pics in the next couple of days. Sounds like you guys know your ballistics and rifles. I guess I'm just a freak about these 25 wssm's. There's just something about them that trips my trigger. Light kicking, Long range capable, not to big for varmints (almost), accurate, light weight, shorter, efficient, and fun to shoot.

 

[mcseal2]

The only thing I have against 25 cal is the lack of really good high BC bullets. The fastest kills I've ever seen on deer have come from a 25-06 I had, but I just never fell in love with it due to wind at long range. It's certainly a good round and I load for my neighbor who is a diehard 25 fan with his wife's 25-06 and his 257 weatherby. They have had really good sucess with 110 accubonds. Personally I just keep either dropping to a 6mm or stepping up to a 6.5 when I build a gun due to BC. I still like sticking to my old .5 BC, 3000fps formula because I know my wind holds with that performance and I'm used to it.

For elk I'd personally want at least a 140gr AccuBond. Less bullet will still do the job, I just want the insurance. I have a 264WM and am building another 270 win and like 140gr AccuBond in both, but they will remain back-up elk rifles to a good 30 cal magnum. I like to be able to take tough quartering shots when needed.