257 Bee Vanguard

[FOTIS]

Does anyone own one? I am really tempted but that 24" barrel is hindering me. I really want a 26.

What velocities are you guys getting? Quickload says about 90 fps for 2" of barrel......

 

[jtoews80]

I have one in the sporter with wood stock. Great gun, shoots 1/2 MOA very easily. The trigger isn't perfect, I have to remember that it is a little longer than my winchester 70, but it shoots 1/2" at 100yds consistently. I set this one up very "economically". Actually, I cheaped on the glass. 3-9X40 bushnell banner. I have almost 5 boxes thro it, but it chronies 120 Sierra 120 HPBT's @ 3145FPS, with 60 grns of IMR 4350 Fed 215 and
W-W 7mm Rem Mag brass stepped to 6.5mm in 264 neck die, and then FL in 257 wby die. Fianlly turned neck down 0.0015" and seated @ 3.284"
The load data spec'd 60.1grns to yeild 3100 and 61.8grns to give 3200 with IMR 4350 I didn't look at what barrel length they tested on. I donwloaded a bit for my wife to use it. The COL is longer than SAAMI by a bit and there was room to go longer in the mag, albeit that is your decision working with w freebored wby.

CC.

If you want to play with Quickload for me, what does a 308 Warbird Ackley look like. I bought a finish reamer off PTG's special list today and was wondering. It could go really really fast. :grin:

 

[FOTIS]

sorry not listed

 

[jtoews80]

I am not too sure what to expect from this chambering. I got the reamer cheap, 66 bucks. HS gauges were 54 dollars.

I haven't ordered dies, not sure if I will to be honest. Dies are about 30 dollars more than the regular ones, 175. The real Warbird fan is a guy I know that has been looking for a sako here in Canada. He's got a 30-378 and is still sold on the Warbird. I'm hoping that the extra 7-10 grns will bring the infamous Lazz round to somewhere near the advertized velocities.
I am concerned that if he reams out his 30-378 with this reamer that the 1-10 twist will cause a bit of preassure since the orignial lazz rifles have very slow twist meant for light bullets. The barrel will have to be set back a very slight bit to cut the last 35 thou of the forward ogee out.

Most likely, the newer lazz brass will yeild alright results and I'll just use the mid loads from the regular warbird. Heck from what's been said about this round I may use those start loads. We'll see,It might go almost as fast as it's supposed too.

CC.

 

[remingtonman_25_06]

POP

My buddy bought one a couple years back when I told him they were making them in the vangaurd, but they only had a 24" tube. Hell if they had a 26" tube, I woulda bought one two. I told him not to expect to much (bout 100fps) over a 25-06. However, he was still sold on getting the .257.

He wanted it for a deer getter so I suggested 115g NBT's and RL-22 to start. He didn't have to look after that. With a max load of RL-22, hes getting right at 3400fps with the 115g NBT and .5-.75" 3 shot groups at 100 yards. So about 150-250fps over a 25-06 depending on powder and individual rifle.

I get 3260fps from a 115g VLD and Retumbo from a 24" 25-06 so I dont think I"m losing to much in way of the .257 WM.

I am actually really thinking about a .257 WM myself, one of Remingtons LSS or CDL SF's limited edition runs. They have 26" tubes so you could ring the most out of them. Very nice rifles and there A LOT better made then the cheap SPS. I dont particularly care for the SPS line of rifles.

Dont know why the vangaurd has a 24" tube. It cant possibly cost more then $10 to add another 2" to the barrel. I"m sure it has something to do with marketing and taking away sales from the MK5 with 26" tubes.

I'm also not to sure if I"m sold on the vanguard for any type of longer shooting. I recently had one in a 300 WBY that would shoot .25-.5" groups at 100 yards, but then it wouldn't do any better then 6" at 400 off a bench with the same loads. It should have been doing at least 2-3".

 

[jtoews80]

LOL, sorry to go off bout that reamer. I'll have to try my 257 a little farther out. See if it will shoot 300yds or more.

CC.

 

[Guest]

Hey, POP, if you can get in touch with Perferator, ask him about his experiences with his 24" Vanguard in 257Wby. He's had some issues with copper fouling, but other than that, it's a great rifle. I believe he's killed deer as close as 50-75yds and as far out as 425-450yds, and it's done the job in one shot both times. And it's hell on crows, too, apparently! I know Ryp's been busy lately and not posting, but I can shoot him an email and see if he'll come on to answer your question.

 

[TN deer hunter]

POP, There is a article in the new Guns and Ammo mag. about the .257 Vanguard and the author lost only 48fps using factory fodder in a 24" bbl vs a 26". I am getting right at 3600fps out of my Sub MOA Vanguard with 100gr TSX and RL22. Here is the article;

http://www.gunsandammomag.com/cs/Satellite/IMO_GA/Story_C/A+Weatherby+Surge+In+The+Southwest

 

[FOTIS]

Thanx guys!

 

[Greg Nolan]

Pop

These are my loads in my Vanguard 257 WBY 24" :
110 gr. AccuBond OAL 3.25" CCI 250 Primers
72.5 grs. IMR7828c 3450 FPS.



100gr. Nos B/T OAL 3.25" ( I know that's factory OAL and I tried real hard to find a more accurate one but couldn't)
76 grs. Reloader 25 CCI 250 primers. 3577 FPS.

She's sighted in at 300 yds. and if the wind isn't blowing they'll be about a 2" spread for 3 shots. ( The rifle can do better, I can't) :?

Good Hunting
Elkhunt :grin:

 

[redrider03]

I dont know if anybody else has experienced this. But I just bought a Vanguard 300 bee with a 24 inch tube and my uncle has a Model 70 300 bee with a 26 inch tube. and with the same loads we got very close velocities. I really dont know how it is possible but that is why i am asking. the only thing i dont like about the vanguard is the short magazine which is a really pain in the butt. His magazine is quite a bit longer so if I want to shoot his loads I have to shoot it like a single shot.

 

[FOTIS]

Some barrels are faster than others but if you have 2 similar ones the longer barrel will produce more speed.

 

[bullet]

POP, go buy one, you will love it. :grin: 8)

 

[Powerstroke]

Greg,

Did you by chance try any of the 7828 with the 100gr B-tips ??

I just purchased a box of them and was curious what other powders to try the next trip out with them. I have the load with the 110gr A-bonds / 7828 covered ....Now for a bullet with some dramatic results.

 

[FOTIS]

Cartridge : .257 Weath. Mag
Bullet : .257, 100, Nosler BalTip 25100
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.170 inch or 80.52 mm
Barrel Length : 24.0 inch or 609.6 mm

Predicted Data for Indicated Charges of the Following Powders.

Matching Maximum Pressure: 62000 psi, or 427 MPa

or a maximum loading ratio or filling of 105 %

These calculations refer to your specified settings in QuickLOAD 'Cartridge Dimensions' window.
C A U T I O N : any load listed can result in a powder charge that falls below minimum suggested
loads or exceeds maximum suggested loads as presented in current handloading manuals. Understand
that all of the listed powders can be unsuitable for the given combination of cartridge, bullet
and gun. Actual load order can vary, depending upon lot-to-lot powder and component variations.
USE ONLY FOR COMPARISON !

150 loads produced a Loading Ratio below user-defined minimum of 90%. These powders have been skipped.

Powder type Filling/Loading Ratio Charge Charge Vel. Prop.Burnt P max P muzz B_Time
% Grains Gramm fps % psi psi ms
--------------------------------- -----------------------------------------------------------------
Vihtavuori N570 104.1 78.5 5.09 3573 95.9 62000 17619 1.099 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N560 95.6 69.9 4.53 3525 98.5 62000 16158 1.092 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 7828 100.0 69.6 4.51 3521 98.9 62000 15734 1.081 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 7828 SSC 94.6 69.6 4.51 3521 98.9 62000 15734 1.081 ! Near Maximum !
Norma MRP 93.8 70.0 4.54 3520 100.0 62000 15688 1.101 ! Near Maximum !
Ramshot Magnum (Big Boy) 98.4 75.1 4.86 3520 99.3 62000 15872 1.093 ! Near Maximum !
PB Clermont PCL 517 98.3 75.1 4.87 3519 99.3 62000 15858 1.093 ! Near Maximum !
Norma MRP 2 103.3 74.0 4.79 3519 99.2 62000 16117 1.107 ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-25 101.2 72.0 4.67 3519 100.0 62000 15075 1.094 ! Near Maximum !
SNPE Vectan SP 12 98.1 75.0 4.86 3518 99.4 62000 15830 1.093 ! Near Maximum !
ADI AR 2213 95.8 69.3 4.49 3510 98.9 62000 15581 1.077 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate MAGPRO 95.8 72.9 4.73 3510 97.5 62000 16231 1.102 ! Near Maximum !
ADI AP 2214 99.5 74.0 4.79 3506 99.2 62000 15386 1.078 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H1000 104.7 74.1 4.80 3504 99.2 62000 15342 1.078 ! Near Maximum !
Raufoss RA15 95.9 69.4 4.50 3499 99.6 62000 15521 1.097 ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-22 95.9 69.4 4.50 3499 99.6 62000 15521 1.097 ! Near Maximum !
Bofors RP5/NP ~approximation 95.9 69.4 4.50 3499 99.6 62000 15521 1.097 ! Near Maximum !
Winchester WXR 98.5 69.7 4.52 3497 99.5 62000 15533 1.097 ! Near Maximum !
Rottweil R905 97.3 69.1 4.48 3473 98.5 62000 15255 1.093 ! Near Maximum !
ADI AR 2209 92.9 66.2 4.29 3473 99.5 62000 14840 1.078 ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-19 93.4 66.8 4.33 3466 99.5 62000 14879 1.086 ! Near Maximum !
Bofors RP14 ~approximation 94.0 67.3 4.36 3459 99.5 62000 14771 1.087 ! Near Maximum !
ADI AR 2218 105.0 80.1 5.19 3454 94.2 55401 17397 1.137 ! Near Maximum !
Bofors RP4 ~approximation 91.7 65.6 4.25 3448 99.4 62000 14568 1.083 ! Near Maximum !
Raufoss RA4 91.7 65.6 4.25 3448 99.4 62000 14568 1.083 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H4831 SC 95.6 69.2 4.48 3446 98.0 62000 14826 1.083 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H4831 99.4 69.2 4.48 3446 98.0 62000 14826 1.083 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4350 93.5 64.1 4.16 3442 99.0 62000 14504 1.082 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon Retumbo 105.0 75.6 4.90 3432 100.0 55223 15645 1.150 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4831 96.0 65.8 4.27 3429 100.0 62000 13989 1.105 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 4350 91.8 62.9 4.07 3427 100.0 62000 13801 1.115 ! Near Maximum !
Somchem S365 90.0 64.1 4.15 3425 100.0 62000 13386 1.108 ! Near Maximum !
Rottweil R904 92.7 65.4 4.24 3424 98.9 62000 14287 1.081 ! Near Maximum !
Somchem S385 93.5 67.6 4.38 3422 99.8 62000 14224 1.106 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N165 98.4 69.7 4.52 3405 99.8 62000 13909 1.098 ! Near Maximum !

 

[Greg Nolan]

Powerstroke,
I probably did but I lost most of my record book one day when I left if just to the side of my 30-378's muzzle break and it became confetti. All I have are the loads I marked on the box. I loaded the load that worked best in my rifle so IMR 7828 probably didn't work as well but I can't swear to that. Let me know what you come up with and I'll give it a try.
Thanks
Greg :grin:

 

[Powerstroke]

POP,
Thank you once again !

Greg,
Sorry to hear that, bet that was quite the sight to see though.... :lol:
I usually have the issue of leaving that kind of stuff on my back bumper and driving off.... :x
Hope to make it back out again this weekend....