.257 Weatherby - where to now?

[Guest]

For those that have followed my .257 Weatherby project you know it has been a long haul.

I have tried the following with less than acceptable results:
Barnes 100 grain TSX with IMR 7828 & RL22
Nosler 110 grain AccuBond with IMR 7828, RL22 & RL25

I thought I was getting somewhere with the Nosler and RL25, but the one good group was obviously the exception, not the norm.

Anyway, I have RL25, RL22, IMR 4831, IMR 7828 and H1000 on hand. I am willing to buy another powder to try if I have to. I have heard some good things about Ramshot Magnum, and I am also wondering about Retumbo.

I would really prefer to shoot the AccuBond.

 

[FOTIS]

Retumbo. That is what I would do!

 

[rltaylor]

IMR4831 works extremely well for my 257 Wby and 110 gr Accubonds.

 

[Guest]

rltaylor,

What kind of velocity are you getting with IMR 4831? What kind of groups?

 

[Guest]

POP,

If I am at 74 grains of RL25 for a sensible maximum, how many grains of RETUMBO would you start with?

Thanks.

 

[FOTIS]

You should have no problems starting out at 69-70 gr.
Ed Matunas and other writers use 68.5 of IMR 7828 with Hornie 117's for 3350 fps . So I am thinking lighter buller (more frictiony though ) and way slower burning powder. You should be fine. If you want drop me an e-mail and I will run quickload on it. Need COAL for this.

 

[old #7]

I thought retumbo was desined for large magnums? Just a question. Any way I have had good results with the data in Nosler's #5 manual and they list Imr 4831 and AA 3100 the most accurate powders. I had some ?'s about my 270 an dthe best results and advice seemed to the same as the nosler manual. The advice that I have recieved on this forum in the short time I have been here has been outstanding. Maybe you have a defect in your rifle?

 

[340boy]

Retumbo is designed for large magnums, but "large" is not just the mass of powder being burned. The 416 Rigby is a huge case, but retumbo is too slow too use in it. OVERBORE is the operative word- a relatively large case but with a small bore diameter is what Retumbo, RL25, and other very slow burn-rate powders are designed for. I am not positive, but I think Retumbo may very well be a good powder for the 257wby, and hopefully my 270wby! :wink:

 

[FOTIS]

POP,

If I am at 74 grains of RL25 for a sensible maximum, how many grains of RETUMBO would you start with?

Thanks.

OK I ran quickload for you. It does not list the 110 AB yet but I ran the 115 BT instead. Assuming a COAL of 3.170 you will get:

67 gr retumbo----49220 PSI and 3188 fps
69 -----------------54311----------3278
72.5--------------- 64551----------3441-max load

Take it for what it's worth bud. Use common sense.

 

[Guest]

POP,

Thanks for the information. After thinking about it since yesterday I am having some additional ideas...hear me out and let me know what you think.

About four weeks ago I got some range time in with the .257 Weatherby and I was able to shoot this group with 74.0 grains of RL25 out of 7mm Remington Magnum brass, fireformed to my chamber. The brass was sized to a tight "crush" fit. The powder is ignited by Federal 215M's. The Nosler 110 grain Accbond is seated as far out as I can get it to load and unload through the ejection port. Haven't got the C.O.L. on hand, but my comparator length is 3.880" (not that that means jack :shock: ) The group right before it was fired with 73.0 grains (I didn't take a pic of it) and it had two right next to each other, with a third about an inch to the left. The group in the picture averaged 3,524 fps.

So, I go out last Saturday with 13 of this load in once fired "crush" fit brass and 15 of this load in brass that has only been reformed in the .257 die and also fits with a tight "crush" fit. My purpose was three fold.

1. Verify my results with a few more groups
2. Sight my gun in to this load
3. See how well the loads with virgin brass compared to the others.

Well, the groups I was expecting didn't happen. In haste I threw my targets away (a mistake I won't make again) as I was not happy with the results. However, my memory is still good enough that I can remember on a couple of the those groups having 2 bullets touching, if not closer, with the other one to the outside...sometimes an 1.5" or more.

I did move my scope to be reasonably close

The loads with virgin brass were not great groupers, but no worse in the aggregate than the others.

Now, with time to really think about where I want to go with all of this, I am wondering about one thing. If that group above was a fluke, so be it. If not, I would sure hate to walk away from it because of one day at the range. I am thinking that instead of taking three shots as quickly as I can shoot and reload with good target form, maybe I should let this barrel cool down between every shot and see what kind of groups I get. I am wondering about this because of the targets I saw with 2 close (some touching) and one off from those two. I wish I had paid more attention to what order the shots were taken.

What do you think?

Thanks.

 

[FOTIS]

A lot of people freak out about 3 shot groups and 5 shot groups. I really believe in the 2 shot group. Hear me out.
Take two shots. Have a soda- a smoke- water- whatever, letting the barrel completely cool off. Then take 2 more shots. Hear you have a 4 shot group thus far.
Repeat if you want to verify. Maybe you can not believe your results or refuse to! :lol:

Statistically you're now into a 5 shot group or two 3 shot groups.

This works for me and I will tell you why. In all my years of hunting I have never...ever...ever taken more than 2 shots on a game animal.
Additionally it keeps the darn heat off the barrel that the 3rd shot usually generates-----thus creating fliers that are indeed due to heat.

 

[Guest]

That makes really good sense. Usually the barrel is just starting to get warm after the first, so a second shot should not be affected. However, at least with my magnum guns, by the time I get ready to fire number three, things have warmed up significantly.

Thanks for the idea. It would also seem that if you have a junker load it will show up as easy in two shot as three most of the time...once in a while you will get one that fools you for a while, but not often.

So, when you put loads together to try how many of each charge do you make up?

I think I will try this method with the 74 grains of RL25 and see what happens.

 

[Marlin44]

I voted 4831. I've just done some development loads with AR2213SC - Australian powder listed equivalent to 4831 - most probably identical stuff, but anyrate, 3 shot groups with 65gn measured .732" @ 100yds - shows promise. It's MOH (minute of hog) all day.

 

[WPH]

I also shoot a lot of two shot groups.

 

[OU812]

That makes really good sense. Usually the barrel is just starting to get warm after the first, so a second shot should not be affected. However, at least with my magnum guns, by the time I get ready to fire number three, things have warmed up significantly.

Thanks for the idea. It would also seem that if you have a junker load it will show up as easy in two shot as three most of the time...once in a while you will get one that fools you for a while, but not often.

So, when you put loads together to try how many of each charge do you make up?

I think I will try this method with the 74 grains of RL25 and see what happens.

Let the barrel cool way down for your best groups. My 338-378 is the same way, first 2 shots are very often touching with the 3rd off slightly. After talking with a friend of mine the other day I decided I was not waiting long enough between shots. It's tought to wait long enough. You get the first 2 shots looking good and ya just want to put that 3rd round in there and things go to he11. Well the other day I decided I WAS going to wait for the barrel to cool no matter what. When it was all said and done after my 2 fouling shots the 3 that counted were ALL touching.

 

[Guest]

Well, I finally got out to try some of the loads I had talked about. The H1000 wasn't bad early on accuracy wise, but velocity was not what I had hoped for. By the time I got the velocity where it should have been, the groups had opened up.

I gave my RL 25 load a whirl again, shooting twice and then letting the barrel cool down completely for a total of four shots before it got too late to shoot. The two, two shot groups are a mirror of each other except for the fact that they are just a bit apart horizontally.

Here is a pic of the group.

I have some more of these loaded up so I think I will shoot a few more groups with them. These are seated as far as the magazine will allow. I am also going to try some with the bullets seated to a C.O.L. of 3.250" to see if that does anything for it.

The Saga continues :? [/img]

 

[remingtonman_25_06]

Thats not to bad though. What kinda velocity were you getting with H1000?? What kinda rifle is your .257 WM. Sorry if you posted it earlier. My friend has a vanguard in .257 WM (24") and shooting 115g combined tech btips right now with I believe RL-22. He might switch to 110g AB or 115g VLD though. I'm not sure about velocity or accuracy though as hes doing his own work up. I'm just letting him know what bullet/powder would be a good bet.

 

[transonic]

Try IMR 4350, CCI Mag. primers!!!!

 

[Touch not Squeeze]

For those that have followed my .257 Weatherby project you know it has been a long haul.

I have tried the following with less than acceptable results:
Barnes 100 grain TSX with IMR 7828 & RL22
Nosler 110 grain AccuBond with IMR 7828, RL22 & RL25

I thought I was getting somewhere with the Nosler and RL25, but the one good group was obviously the exception, not the norm.

Anyway, I have RL25, RL22, IMR 4831, IMR 7828 and H1000 on hand. I am willing to buy another powder to try if I have to. I have heard some good things about Ramshot Magnum, and I am also wondering about Retumbo.

I would really prefer to shoot the AccuBond.

I just stumbled on to your thread. I load a 257 Wby for my brother, and he loves the loads. I will edit this post later this week with cl,oal,and charge weight. I use 100gr XLCs, GM215 primers, RL22, @ 3600fps. I wanted to match factory specs, because I have a lot of respect for Roy Weatherby, thus his loads as well. I can shoot 1" 3 shot groups @ 100 and 200. He can shoot 1/2" 3 shot groups @ 100 and 200, as he is a better shot than I am (but don't tell him that). This combo devistates whitetail.

 

[Lab man]

I am currently on my 3rd barrel for the 257 WM and 21 antelope have voted it their favorite over the years. I really like Nosler products, but have found that most of the time, the Weatherby chambering seems to prefer a flat base design. My current load is 70 gr. RL 22, Fed 215 and 117 Hornady SST. I tried loading as long as the magazine would allow and in my rifle, the accuracy deteriated. I am now seating the bullet to approximate factory OAL and it seems to work very well. Good luck, once you find the load, the results are amazing.