260AI build - long or short action?

[Creedmore]

I feel a little silly saying this given your screen name, but if it were me building a rifle for my son, I might be looking at a SA, chambered in 6.5 Creedmoor. After all, it was designed around magazine box restrictions with long bullets...

No worries, I get that alot - my screen name goes back to my IHMSA days some 20+ years ago. And the recent popularity of the Creedmoor cartridge made me consider it, but would just be weird and have to explain too many times. :lol:


This particular gun will be for my 14yr old. She already likes shooting rifles, likes to see all the bullets go into the same hole. Going to be a target/hunting rifle. I'll put a brake on it and have a thread protector in case she (or I ) ever want to shoot a match. But this will be hers, light recoil. And when I'm gone (if she doesn't handload) then she will be able to run factory .260Rem through it.

 

[SJB358]

I've only shot one 260 Ackley, built on a Model 70, with a heavy barrel, but oh man, it was very snappy and handled the 142 grain Sierra's really well. I know it made me sit up and take notice. Someday, in the future I would love to have a little 260 on a Model 70 myself. The efficiency of the 130-142 class bullets is just fun.

 

[wildgene]

...well, OK, but could you explain the .260 AI to me, cause I just don't get it. The .30-06 case lends itself to some considerable improvement by reducing the case taper & an increase in volume by moving the shoulder forward w/ a much sharper angle, but the .308 case is already @ 1% taper & even going to a 40* vs. the normal 20* might be increasing the efficiency, but only gains you maybe 2-3% more volume. I went the "other way" w/ the 6.5 Creedmoor, lost some volume, increased the efficiency, fits in a short action. I'm not judging you (well, yes I am, cause my Creedmoor is lots more better than any damn .260, AI or otherwise), just curious, & wondering if a .25 Sooper (.25X308) might actually gain something as a .25 Sooper AI...

 

[SJB358]

...well, OK, but could you explain the .260 AI to me, cause I just don't get it. The .30-06 case lends itself to some considerable improvement by reducing the case taper & an increase in volume by moving the shoulder forward w/ a much sharper angle, but the .308 case is already @ 1% taper & even going to a 40* vs. the normal 20* might be increasing the efficiency, but only gains you maybe 2-3% more volume. I went the "other way" w/ the 6.5 Creedmoor, lost some volume, increased the efficiency, fits in a short action. I'm not judging you (well, yes I am, cause my Creedmoor is lots more better than any damn .260, AI or otherwise), just curious, & wondering if a .25 Sooper (.25X308) might actually gain something as a .25 Sooper AI...

Gene, this is my take on the Ackleys, I think they look very cool, but in a few slight instances, I am not sure where they make the huge gains over their parent cartridges they once did. Granted, I know there are gains, but the difference from a 260 to a 260 Ackley, at least in QL is very minimal, when both are compared at the same PSI's with the same barrel length. Same with the 280 and some others. They do have some gains, without a doubt, but the parent case can be loaded pretty closely, if all else is the same.

Now, they do look very cool and a minimal amount of stretching is a good reason for a shooter to like them as well, but the fireforming involved seems like more effort than needed for the gains. Not saying I wouldn't ever own one, or anything like that.. I think some of the best Ackley'ed cartridges are the 7mm Mauser series. There is some pretty serious slope to them and it seems like they could really see some benefit to being Improved, but even still, with todays powders like RL17 and others, the old 7mm Mauser runs really well.

Its all kinda personal at this point, cause man, I do see some Ackley's that just ooze cool, such as Jakes and Jim's 280's and Woody's 243 shoots like a maniac, but it's more the build than the actual look of the case or how much gain it really makes over the parent..

 

[wildgene]

...good point, Scotty. Back in P.O. Ackley's day, the limited types & supplies of commercially available cartridges, powders & bullets made any gain "substantial", finding a MOA rifle was "incredible". We're "spoiled" & take how good we really have it for granted...

 

[SJB358]

...good point, Scotty. Back in P.O. Ackley's day, the limited types & supplies of commercially available cartridges, powders & bullets made any gain "substantial", finding a MOA rifle was "incredible". We're "spoiled" & take how good we really have it for granted...

I am with you a 100% there. I have ran it through my mind a few times of selling off my current inventory and rebuilding in Pre 64 Model 70's in the standard cartridges, as there is so much performance to be had in those old cartridges like the 270's and 300's..

Old man Bill Casey said it best, when we were sitting around our campfire this past Fall, there hasn't been anything new made in about 75 years... We tried to name off a few rounds and most had been wildcatted or "made" in the 50-60's before they came back around.

Heck, I still keep coming back around to the 30 Newton and 35 Newton's. Those two would have been keepers would they have been made about the time the WSM's and RUM's debuted. Beltless short magnums with minimal body taper, but they do still have pretty nice necks on them, which I still think is a good thing...

 

[wildgene]

...Scotty, have you sustained a recent head injury???

...a .270 is a .270, the only way to improve it is to re-barrel it for a "real cartridge"...

:shock: :roll: :twisted: :lol: :mrgreen:

 

[SJB358]

...Scotty, have you sustained a recent head injury???

...a .270 is a .270, the only way to improve it is to re-barrel it for a "real cartridge"...

:shock: :roll: :twisted: :lol: :mrgreen:

Well, the head injury is up to debate, and depending on when you ask Lori, she could fill you in!

Yeah, I am pretty sure it'd never happen, but the thought has crossed my mind..

 

[usmc 89]

short action, your not changing the length of the case just the diameter with the ackley, My theory is this the ackley is not known for its smooth feeding, so the further away from the chamber the more problems it creates.
I shoot the 140 vld in my .260 AIAW exsclusively and have no problems with the length of that bullet. Proper throating will accomodate any bullet in the .264 diameter for a short action. If your doing a 6.5-284 or longer case yes go with the long action. Good luck with your.build.

 

[sask boy]

Never under estimate the 270win. :wink: it is very under rated 8) use a good quality bullet preferably 130gr. and it will do everything you want it too. I have whacked a number large WT bucks that most guys never even get a chance to see and to date I have never had one get away.
PS. I never liked the 30-06 but go figure :roll: my 270win, 35 Whelen & my soon to be 280AI are all off that cartridge.
My motto is so many calibres and to little time :mrgreen:

Blessings,
Dan

 

[Oldtrader3]

Me also, my .270 has whacked every thing that I have ever shot at with it, mostly deer and all dead, DRT. Now I know that I have at least (5) other rifles that will do the job just as well. So many choices, so little time!

 

[SJB358]

Long live the 270's! Hard to beat em.

 

[BeeTee]

If you load and plan on keeping a rifle forever (or at least till you hand it down to the kids), cartridge choice has few limits. But, if your rifle isn't a keeper, I wonder about resale value of an AI. How do they do on the auctions compared to standard cartridges?

I bought my son a new Remington Model 7 243 when he began hunting at age 12. I even reduced the length of pull to fit him. He quickly outgrew that rifle, and I replaced it in just a few years with a new Ruger 7RM. The 243 was later sold. BT

 

[Oldtrader3]

Personally, I won't leave anything to my kids or grandkids that they can't buy ammo for. Otherwise they will probably sell it within a week! Only one other person in my entire family on both sides handloads.

 

[killdeernow]

270??? What's a 270???

We are talking capable cartridges here people!!! I'll have to research that one...

I'm back; didn't find anything. Time to go clean my 223 WSSM.

 

[Woodycreek]

I've only shot one 260 Ackley, built on a Model 70, with a heavy barrel, but oh man, it was very snappy and handled the 142 grain Sierra's really well. I know it made me sit up and take notice. Someday, in the future I would love to have a little 260 on a Model 70 myself. The efficiency of the 130-142 class bullets is just fun.

Shot that same rifle a few times and man what a performer! I think Tom has done some steel shooting with it out to around 1200 yards? Hopefully he will be around shortly to fill in the gaps.

...Scotty, have you sustained a recent head injury???

...a .270 is a .270, the only way to improve it is to re-barrel it for a "real cartridge"...

:shock: :roll: :twisted: :lol: :mrgreen:

:lol: :lol: :lol:

short action, your not changing the length of the case just the diameter with the ackley, My theory is this the ackley is not known for its smooth feeding, so the further away from the chamber the more problems it creates.
I shoot the 140 vld in my .260 AIAW exsclusively and have no problems with the length of that bullet. Proper throating will accomodate any bullet in the .264 diameter for a short action. If your doing a 6.5-284 or longer case yes go with the long action. Good luck with your.build.

As much as I love my 243 AIs, Jeff is spot on about the AIs not feeding as well as the parent case.

 

[TDD1964]

I own the rifle that Brian and Scotty have fired. I bought the Winchester 70 already built and added a McMillan HTG stock and a Leupold Mark 4. On a trip to Central Va Tactical for a long range class, I let my 24yo nephew use it while I was shooting the 338 Windrunner. The last targets that we engaged were at 1320 yards. He had an excellent instructor calling the wind and made 12 hits in a row on a 20x30 inch steel target. The loads were 142g SMKs, Lapua brass that had been fire formed, 48.5g of H4831SC, and an OAL of 2.820. After the class was done, I had an excellent range card for it and I can walk it out to any distance and hit steel until I am bored. At 100 yards, it literally makes on jagged hole. Suppressed, it feels about like a 223.

Is it better than a regular 260? I don't know because I have never owned a regular 260. I know you will ask about chrono speeds, but I have never tried it. I can also tell you that the loads I make to fireform the brass (I step the powder charge down to 45g) shoot as good as the others. Without a doubt, it is one of the most accurate rifles I have ever owned and will certainly hang with my 338 Lapua at 1000+ yards. I will take a photo and send it to Brian so he can post it (I am picture posting illiterate).

Tom

 

[SJB358]

I own the rifle that Brian and Scotty have fired. I bought the Winchester 70 already built and added a McMillan HTG stock and a Leupold Mark 4. On a trip to Central Va Tactical for a long range class, I let my 24yo nephew use it while I was shooting the 338 Windrunner. The last targets that we engaged were at 1320 yards. He had an excellent instructor calling the wind and made 12 hits in a row on a 20x30 inch steel target. The loads were 142g SMKs, Lapua brass that had been fire formed, 48.5g of H4831SC, and an OAL of 2.820. After the class was done, I had an excellent range card for it and I can walk it out to any distance and hit steel until I am bored. At 100 yards, it literally makes on jagged hole. Suppressed, it feels about like a 223.

Is it better than a regular 260? I don't know because I have never owned a regular 260. I know you will ask about chrono speeds, but I have never tried it. I can also tell you that the loads I make to fireform the brass (I step the powder charge down to 45g) shoot as good as the others. Without a doubt, it is one of the most accurate rifles I have ever owned and will certainly hang with my 338 Lapua at 1000+ yards. I will take a photo and send it to Brian so he can post it (I am picture posting illiterate).

Tom

Pretty good for an old Winchester huh Tom!

Great report buddy. We need to get together and get some shooting in!

That 260 could easily fit in a case of mine at the end of the day!

 

[Woodycreek]

Tom's M70 260 AI

 

[SJB358]

Yup, I'd take it! That's the rifle that gave me an itch for the 260, 6.5x47, or 6.5 Creedmoore. Any of them would be too much fun at hunting steel or Whitetails!