264 Win Mag.....all of a sudden I want one

[mcseal2]

Thanks! That's what I thought when he came up out of the creek. He fed into a deep narrow creek and we stalked within 180yds. When he came up out of the creek I was prone and ready. His rack came up first and I quickly quit looking at it. I'd seen plenty and needed to stop staring before I got nervous. He got out far enough I could see his vitals and didn't wait any longer. He was quartering hard so I hit him about the back rib and found the 140gr AccuBond under the hide in his neck right in front of the far shoulder. He made a 50yd dash, dropped, and the celebration began. It was a right time/right place situation, the biggest buck that area had produced in many years was in the low 170's gross. None of the locals had even seen a buck of this caliber around there since the early 80's. Hopefully he rutted hard.

 

[Oldtrader3]

That is a very nice (!!) mule deer! Congratulations.

 

[JD338]

mcseal2

Very nice rifle and some awesome trophies.

JD338

 

[Ridge_Runner]

well I've loaded for the 7RM, 270 Bee, 338WM, 350RM,7mmSTW and never had a problem with belted cases, if you set your die to headspace on the shoulders and pretend the belt isn't there, just like loading for a contendor pistol.
RR

 

[FOTIS]

I agree RR!

 

[Oldtrader3]

I am not a magnum lover but have loaded for the 7mm Remington (2), .308 Norma, .300 H&H (2), .300 WSM, .338 WM (2), 340 Wea Mag and .375 Ouch & Ouch. I am not a fan of headspacing on the belt. But have loaded all of the last several mags that I have owned off off the shoulder datum, just like any other cartridge with good results.

 

[Ridge_Runner]

I am not a magnum lover but have loaded for the 7mm Remington (2), .308 Norma, .300 H&H (2), .300 WSM, .338 WM (2), 340 Wea Mag and .375 Ouch & Ouch. I am not a fan of headspacing on the belt. But have loaded all of the last several mags that I have owned off off the shouder datum, just like any other cartridge with good results.

yep, the main reason folks have trouble with belted cases is because no matter how much you size them they are still headspaced on the belt, so they'll go off, if they are undersized to the chamber the brass flows foreward to fit, and gets thinner where its thickest (just in front of the web) which will cause head separations relatively quick, however if the case fits the chamber well the brass stays put giving much better case life, so best bet is act like its beltless and headspace on the shoulder.
If you undersize a rimless, beltless case then it becomes obvious cause it won't fire. seat to the lands in a rimless case and you can have the same problems.
RR

 

[woods]

Obviously you headspace on the shoulder after fire forming but someone tell me how to keep the case body from excessive expansion when the brass manufacturers make the NEW cases to fit so loose in most if not all chambers.

 

[Oldtrader3]

I buy better brands of brass and (knock on wood) have not had any issues with the first firing and incipient headspace separations. I know that it costs me more for brass but the loss of a finger or a hand from a separatied case makes this pretty cheap insurance. This only thing that I can do is inspect case after the first firing to assure that there is no ridge of thinned brasss in front of the belt.

Because of these two two measures, I had never had an issue and I only own one magnum presently. I also use Forster dies to help with dimensional control of sizing. I have never had an issue with separations and just hope that my luck holds in the future.

 

[Ridge_Runner]

Obviously you headspace on the shoulder after fire forming but someone tell me how to keep the case body from excessive expansion when the brass manufacturers make the NEW cases to fit so loose in most if not all chambers.

so many different companies chamber rifles in the 7 mag and they all seem to run slightly oversized chambers except browning, so here is what I do, take a 7 RM case, punch it out to 30 cal, then screw your 7 die up pretty far, start resizing, trying it in the gun after each time as you screw the die down, when the bolt will go shut with a bit of resistance, screw the die down 1/16th turn and lock it. use this die setting after fireforming in your chambers until springback requires you bump the shoulders and anneal. The initial fireforming will not be headspaced on the shoulders and is not the optimum but this will increase case life overall.
I usualy get 5 firings with the 270 Bee, and 7 RM class of cartridges and 4 with the STW before you need to anneal, and have never had a separation with a magnum case
RR

 

[woods]

Obviously you headspace on the shoulder after fire forming but someone tell me how to keep the case body from excessive expansion when the brass manufacturers make the NEW cases to fit so loose in most if not all chambers.

so many different companies chamber rifles in the 7 mag and they all seem to run slightly oversized chambers except browning, so here is what I do, take a 7 RM case, punch it out to 30 cal, then screw your 7 die up pretty far, start resizing, trying it in the gun after each time as you screw the die down, when the bolt will go shut with a bit of resistance, screw the die down 1/16th turn and lock it. use this die setting after fireforming in your chambers until springback requires you bump the shoulders and anneal. The initial fireforming will not be headspaced on the shoulders and is not the optimum but this will increase case life overall.
I usualy get 5 firings with the 270 Bee, and 7 RM class of cartridges and 4 with the STW before you need to anneal, and have never had a separation with a magnum case
RR

Exactly right RR, form a false shoulder, like I do with a 30 Gibbs I reload for. On the 30 Gibbs I take a 35 Whelen case and neck down till it will chamber but still have a crush fit.

But the question remains; where does all that brass go? Will it shorten the case length or still come up from the pressure ring and thin there.

Here are a couple of tests I did and you can draw your own conclusions

300 win mag new cases false shoulder

300 win mag fired

To me this shows that the shoulder marks did not move indicating that the brass still comes from somewhere between the case body/shoulder junction and the case head

This is different from the results I got with the same test on a 280AI

280AI new cases false shoulder

280AI fired cases

which seems to indicate that the brass expanded between the case body/shoulder junction and the neck mouth

 

[Ridge_Runner]

Obviously you headspace on the shoulder after fire forming but someone tell me how to keep the case body from excessive expansion when the brass manufacturers make the NEW cases to fit so loose in most if not all chambers.

so many different companies chamber rifles in the 7 mag and they all seem to run slightly oversized chambers except browning, so here is what I do, take a 7 RM case, punch it out to 30 cal, then screw your 7 die up pretty far, start resizing, trying it in the gun after each time as you screw the die down, when the bolt will go shut with a bit of resistance, screw the die down 1/16th turn and lock it. use this die setting after fireforming in your chambers until springback requires you bump the shoulders and anneal. The initial fireforming will not be headspaced on the shoulders and is not the optimum but this will increase case life overall.
I usualy get 5 firings with the 270 Bee, and 7 RM class of cartridges and 4 with the STW before you need to anneal, and have never had a separation with a magnum case
RR

Exactly right RR, form a false shoulder, like I do with a 30 Gibbs I reload for. On the 30 Gibbs I take a 35 Whelen case and neck down till it will chamber but still have a crush fit.

But the question remains; where does all that brass go? Will it shorten the case length or still come up from the pressure ring and thin there.

Here are a couple of tests I did and you can draw your own conclusions

300 win mag new cases false shoulder

300 win mag fired

To me this shows that the shoulder marks did not move indicating that the brass still comes from somewhere between the case body/shoulder junction and the case head

This is different from the results I got with the same test on a 280AI

280AI new cases false shoulder

280AI fired cases

which seems to indicate that the brass expanded between the case body/shoulder junction and the neck mouth

The brass flows foreward, making the necks and shoulders thicker, its a slow process and the less room the brass has to flo the longer it takes to do it.
and since the pressure is on the inside, thats where the brass flows, which is why you can feel the imminant case separation with a paperclip on the inside but not the outside of the case. brass is just copper with a certain percentage of tin in it depending on the make, copper is very mallable metal.
1/4" copper tubing starts off as a 60# piece of copper 5" in diameter, it unds up as 500 or so ft of 1/4" and its only keated for the initial pressing, after that its dies and pressure to get it from 2" down to 1/4".
RR

 

[SJB358]

well I've loaded for the 7RM, 270 Bee, 338WM, 350RM,7mmSTW and never had a problem with belted cases, if you set your die to headspace on the shoulders and pretend the belt isn't there, just like loading for a contendor pistol.
RR

I am really late to this party, but I have learned to keep all of my cases headspaced on the shoulders and not let them grow during the firing process and so far (knock on wood), I have never had a CHS.

I run the 264WM, 338WM, 7RM, 300WM, and probably some others I have forgotten about. I did recently cull some WW cases that have about 10-12 firings on them. I observed little micro cracks right on the belt line. I would have never noticed them, were I not really looking for them. Brass isn't that expensive and they served their useful life for me. Still, no problem with CHS though. Once I learned to size them about .001-.003 they have all chambered like factory ammo and been very accurate for me.

I really like my 264, I could put up alot of targets, that show why I like it, but I run 140's at about 3200, 130's will go mid 3300's without problems either. I will say I run a 26" barrel, but I wouldn't be scared of a 24" barrel either. Like Gerry said, you aren't giving up much of anything.

I do like how easy it is to plunk the crosshairs on steel at 600 yards and commence to blasting it. It just "gets there" quick and with very little recoil. I am actually looking forward to blazing a deer or two with it this Fall. It doesn't do anything the 7RM or 270WSM won't, but I love the high BC, low recoil rounds shoot. It is one of the most accurate rifles I own. I don't see me burning out the barrel anytime soon now that I have a good load.

RL25, Nosler cases, CCI250's and the 140 BT or AB will get it done. I would have 0 issues hunting elk with the rifle. Might not be the "perfect" elk rifle, but it would get it done just fine. Those 140's have alot of SD and a quality bullet like a BT or AB will dig deep. The 140 PT is VERY accurate as well.

I know Tom went another direction, but the 264 is a very good cartridge and easy to load for once you find what it wants. I had to bed mine to make it consistent, but once I did that, it REALLY came around quick!

300 yards

It will easily keep them inside 2" at 300, which is about all I can hope for from a Sporter rifle and a 10X scope.

 

[mcseal2]

Good shooting!

 

[Oldtrader3]

Nice groups!

 

[SJB358]

Thanks fellers. The rifle really shoots well with the 140 AB and BT. It has a Minox 2-10 on it, got to get it zeroed up and ready for the Fall.

 

[JD338]

Scotty

That is some fine shooting for sure.
The new 129 gr ALR should be a screamer!

JD338

 

[SJB358]

Scotty

That is some fine shooting for sure.
The new 129 gr ALR should be a screamer!

JD338

Without a doubt Jim. I almost forgot about that one! Yeah, I am thinking a cool 3350 or so out of my rifle with those will make for a truly awesome flatliner. It is hard to imagine better than the 140 BT is right now in that rifle!

 

[mcseal2]

What are you talking about with the ALR?

 

[mcseal2]

Never mind, found the post on LRH, I can't wait to get my hands on this bullet! To bad I already had turrets built for the Berger! I really hope I can get this one to shoot from my 264, any idea when they will be available to order?