30-06 and Varget QL please.

[Aussie Wanderer]

Hi guys, I am suffering through trying to get good reloads with my 30-06 using 165 class bullets. The barrel is 26 inches long in a varmint contour. Brass is Norma. I have been trying with H4350 and the best I can get is 5 shots around an inch in size. Remington barrel and action is bedded into a hs-precision stock and free floated. I am expecting better and was going to try Varget to see if a different powder might yield better results. So if someone could kindly run a QL map using 165 projectile and 65,000 pressure that would be greatly appreciated. Thanks for any help or advice from those familiar with this cartridge is also welcomed.

 

[DrMike]

Which partricular bullet? Different bullets produce different results.

 

[Aussie Wanderer]

Sorry Mike, absolutely right.

Happy for you to use the 165 ballistic tip. That is the bullet I want to work so I can swap out to an AccuBond when or if the need arises.

 

[wvbuckbuster]

Have you tried or have access to Big Game? It groups well under an inch close to half inch in my Remington 700 with 22-inch barrel getting close to 2900 fps using the Hornady 165gr BTSP.

 

[DrMike]

Cartridge          : .30-06 Spring.  (SAAMI)
Bullet             : .308, 165, Nosler BalTip 30165
Useable Case Capaci: 60.137 grain H2O = 3.905 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.340 inch = 84.84 mm
Barrel Length      : 26.0 inch = 660.4 mm
Powder             : Hodgdon VARGET *T

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 1.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step    Fill. Charge   Vel.  Energy   Pmax   Pmuz  Prop.Burnt B_Time
 %       %    Grains   fps   ft.lbs    psi    psi      %        ms

-10.0   90    48.24   2701    2674   46879   7472     98.7    1.316
-09.0   91    48.78   2728    2726   48320   7536     99.0    1.298
-08.0   92    49.31   2754    2778   49805   7598     99.2    1.280
-07.0   93    49.85   2779    2830   51334   7657     99.3    1.263
-06.0   94    50.38   2805    2883   52909   7713     99.5    1.247
-05.0   95    50.92   2831    2936   54531   7767     99.6    1.230
-04.0   96    51.46   2856    2989   56202   7817     99.7    1.214  ! Near Maximum !
-03.0   97    51.99   2882    3043   57923   7865     99.8    1.198  ! Near Maximum !
-02.0   98    52.53   2907    3096   59697   7911     99.9    1.183  ! Near Maximum !
-01.0   99    53.06   2932    3150   61526   7953    100.0    1.167  ! Near Maximum !
+00.0  100    53.60   2957    3205   63411   7992    100.0    1.153  ! Near Maximum !
+01.0  101    54.14   2982    3259   65354   8028    100.0    1.138  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+02.0  102    54.67   3007    3313   67357   8062    100.0    1.123  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+03.0  103    55.21   3032    3368   69424   8096    100.0    1.109  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+04.0  104    55.74   3057    3423   71556   8129    100.0    1.095  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+05.0  105    56.28   3081    3478   73755   8161    100.0    1.082  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by ± 5% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 5% relative to nominal value:
+Ba    100    53.60   3007    3314   68610   7838    100.0    1.117  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 5% relative to nominal value:
-Ba    100    53.60   2896    3073   58236   8095     99.3    1.194  ! Near Maximum !

 

[DrMike]

You'll get a skosh more velocity with the AB, though it is doubtful you can measure the difference.

Cartridge          : .30-06 Spring.  (SAAMI)
Bullet             : .308, 165, Nosler Accubond 55602
Useable Case Capaci: 59.818 grain H2O = 3.884 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.340 inch = 84.84 mm
Barrel Length      : 26.0 inch = 660.4 mm
Powder             : Hodgdon VARGET *T

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 1.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step    Fill. Charge   Vel.  Energy   Pmax   Pmuz  Prop.Burnt B_Time
 %       %    Grains   fps   ft.lbs    psi    psi      %        ms

-10.0   90    48.24   2707    2685   47328   7460     98.8    1.310
-09.0   91    48.78   2733    2738   48790   7524     99.0    1.293
-08.0   92    49.31   2760    2790   50297   7585     99.2    1.275
-07.0   93    49.85   2785    2843   51848   7643     99.4    1.258
-06.0   94    50.38   2811    2896   53447   7698     99.5    1.241
-05.0   95    50.92   2837    2949   55093   7751     99.6    1.225
-04.0   96    51.46   2863    3002   56790   7801     99.8    1.209  ! Near Maximum !
-03.0   97    51.99   2888    3056   58539   7849     99.8    1.193  ! Near Maximum !
-02.0   98    52.53   2914    3110   60341   7893     99.9    1.178  ! Near Maximum !
-01.0   99    53.06   2939    3164   62200   7934    100.0    1.163  ! Near Maximum !
+00.0  100    53.60   2964    3219   64115   7972    100.0    1.148  ! Near Maximum !
+01.0  101    54.14   2989    3273   66091   8008    100.0    1.133  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+02.0  102    54.67   3014    3328   68129   8041    100.0    1.119  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+03.0  103    55.21   3039    3383   70232   8075    100.0    1.104  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+04.0  104    55.74   3063    3438   72401   8107    100.0    1.091  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+05.0  106    56.28   3088    3494   74640   8139    100.0    1.077  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by ± 5% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 5% relative to nominal value:
+Ba    100    53.60   3014    3328   69379   7818    100.0    1.112  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 5% relative to nominal value:
-Ba    100    53.60   2903    3087   58877   8079     99.3    1.189  ! Near Maximum !

 

[Aussie Wanderer]

Thank you sir, much appreciated. I really want this rifle to shoot. You can see it is trying to make little groups, but something is just not quite there. I'll report back when I have had some range time and see if that change makes any difference.

 

[Aussie Wanderer]

Have you tried or have access to Big Game? It groups well under an inch close to half inch in my Remington 700 with 22-inch barrel getting close to 2900 fps using the Hornady 165gr BTSP.

That is great shooting and nice velocity from a short barrel too, (well short for me anyway). Unfortunately I don't have access to Big Game. We realistically only have access to ADI powders which do translate to some of yours such as AR2209=H4350 etc. Post pandemic and wars raging really have messed up our supplies.

 

[mjcmichigan]

RL 17 is similar in burn rate. My 270 loves it. Both accuracy and velocity.
Are you able to measure your velocity and SD? If so, if your SD is over 10, try a primer with more brisance. Ie Federal 210 has more brisance than most large rifle primers without trying Magnum primers, but that’s a possibility too.

If your SD is below 10, try adjusting your setting depth to minimize harmonics coming into play.

Recently had to go up a grain of H4831 and go to magnum primers. Closed from 1.25” to 0.5” just like that.

Good luck. Let us know what works

 

[Aussie Wanderer]

I am using cci primers, didn’t think to use a magnum primer to see if that makes a difference. Great suggestion thank you.

 

[Aussie Wanderer]

So here's the update. Shooting in a left to right wind of 10-15 knots with gusts, not great for groups but not bad enough to realise if things are heading in the right direction. From left to right is the 165NBT in front of Varget starting at 51.5 and ending at 53.5 increasing in 0.5grain increments. Three would land tight and 4 & 5 would increase the group size. Encouraged but starting to make me ask questions about the barrel, possible heat related issues etc. The mind games begin.

51.5 grains 2,802fps and SD 25.4
52 grains 2830fps and SD 19.9
52.5 grains 2,848fps and SD 8.1
53 grains 2,887fps and SD 8.1
53.5 grains 2,932fps and SD 9.0

All loads were fine in my rifle and showed no signs of excessive pressure.

 

[Aussie Wanderer]

So then I experimented with the same powder charges of Varget but swapped to the 165SST which I bought as a "what the hell have I got to lose" in trying to get this rifle to shoot.

Well the rifle showed me what it was capable of and left me feeling like I was definitely on the right path with the rifle being a shooter with the right components for it.

51.5 grains 2,829fps and SD 7.5
52 grains 2,871fps and SD 7.9
52.5 grains 2,899fps and SD 8.1
53 grains 2,924fps and SD 10.3
53.5 grains 2,952fps and SD 9.9

Again no pressure signs in my rifle and pretty handy velocity.

Pictures from left to right are the increase in powder charge as listed above. All groups are five shots for both bullets.

 

[wvbuckbuster]

Looks like you found the load it likes.

 

[Aussie Wanderer]

Also meant to say thank you too Dr Mike, much appreciated with your help in this matter.

 

[NYDAN]

Those loads with 52.0 and 52.5 grains look pretty good. Congratulations on staying with it until you found a good load.