30-06 help please

[jason miller]

I apologize in advance for how long this is going to be. Please bear with me.

So I finally bought an m70 featherweight 30-06 last summer- the rifle of my childhood dreams. It's an FN made 2008 limited edition, if anyone is curious. I love the rifle, but she hasn't been loving my handloads all that much.

I have tried 130 TTSX's and gotten decent accuracy(1" or less for 3 shots), at around 3100ish fps, with either varget or ramshot big game. The 150 TTSX has also grouped pretty well at a bit over 3000 fps with big game. But I'd rather not use those expensive bullets(and in a 1:10" twist barrel that should favor heavies) unless I have to. 165 Speers group acceptably, as in 1.25-1.5", at around 2875 with big game. They didn't group as well with either h4350, rl17, rl19, or hunter. A preliminary round with 168 NBT's seems like they might have some potential for 1-1.5" groups at 2830ish with h4350 or rl17, and I haven't tried big game with them yet. And 200 grain accubonds are shooting pretty well at 2690 fps with rl17. I have a few loaded up with h4831 to try next for the fun of it.

My problem is that I would rather shoot either 180 BT's or partitions through the rifle, and the rifle seems to want no part of it. I have tried a bunch of ramshot hunter and given up on it. Switching to WLRM primers didn't change anything. RL22 wasn't any better. RL17 was also a bust. H4831 shows some accuracy potential, but at a lower velocity. I have some Partitions loaded up with h4350 to try next, but I am not optimistic.

With any of the powders I have tried, I run into what I think are pressure signs at anything above about 2750 fps. So far I have only used WLR primers. And at over about 2750 fps or above, they occasionally blow a tiny little pinhole at the edge of the primer. I almost wonder if the primers are faulty, because they have occasionally done this in two other rifles at what I thought were "below max" loads. And the pinhole only happens sporadically. Also, 180's don't group worth a crap in this rifle until I get closer to 2800 fps, or at the mid-upper 2600 range.

So assuming those pinholes are from over pressure, why would I shoot 180's at somewhere below 2700 fps when I can shoot a 200 grain AccuBond at 2690? I have also run the 150 TTSX to 3080 on my initial string trying to find pressure- brass/primers still looked good. For that matter, it seems silly to shoot 165/8's at the mid 2800's when I can shoot the 150 at or just over 3K.


So would you guys try a different primer and start over with 180's and/or 165's? Any recommendations on another powder to try besides imr4350? (the current fad of temp stability has me spooked) Or do I just need to accept that my rifle doesn't like bullets in the middle weight range? I have already tried switching up to Winchester brass to gain a bit of capacity; with no change. BTW, my Hornady brass has just about the same capacity as the Win brass I bought...

Any other thoughts? Bedding the rifle is the only other thing I can think of. Different scopes/mounts have made no difference.

 

[longguner]

IMR 4895 is THE powder for .30-06 it was the original powder for the 06.

IMR 4064 is good too.

The 165 grain pill is very good.

What are you hunting?

 

[FOTIS]

So assuming those pinholes are from over pressure, why would I shoot 180's at somewhere below 2700 fps when I can shoot a 200 grain AccuBond at 2690?

There is your answer right there.

Enjoy the 130's at blazing speeds and the 200 AB at almost 2900 fps.
Run a ballistic table and you will see that the 200 will catch up to and overtake all bullets you mentioned.

Shoot them enjoy them and then when you get bored then go back to the 180's and play with primers seating depth and a plethora of other variables.

Just do not let it get to you. Just enjoy.

Some do not shoot anything at all~ Right Big Green? :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[FOTIS]

IMR 4895 is THE powder for .30-06 it was the original powder for the 06.

IMR 4064 is good too.

For garand's and such yes.... and relatively light bullets/

 

[jason miller]

I'm not hunting anything this season. I just moved to Colorado this summer, and I'll wait til next season when I can get resident tags. Looking to go for elk primarily, mulies if I can, and pronghorn down the road. Thanks for the input, but aren't those powders a little fast burning for 165's and especially 180's? And wouldn't they have the same temperature stability issues as imr4350?

Also, thought I should add- I have had no trouble at all getting 3 other rifles to shoot. A 4th gave me some headaches until I realized that the front action screw was too long and slightly contacting the bolt.

Any chance my RCBS dies are to blame and I should get a runout gauge? Although I wouldn't think the 130's and 150's would be so accurate if that were the case...

 

[jason miller]

Thanks, Fotis. I just find it annoying that the rifle is being so finicky and I can't do anything about it. As long as I lusted after this rifle, it always seemed in the back of my mind that 30-06's are supposed to shoot 165's and 180's...

 

[FOTIS]

The aforementioned powders are ideal for 147 gr to 155 gr or so. Like I said perfect for the garand.
I would assume for the same reason you do that there is nothing wrong with your scale. Some rifles just do not like some bullets.
I had a 300 mag that only shot the 200 grainers with 1:10 twist.

NOTHING ELSE....NOTHING! :!:

 

[DrMike]

There is nothing wrong with a 200 grain bullet from the 30-06. It will certainly work for elk and anything smaller.

 

[jason miller]

Speaking of my scale, it's the standard RCBS balance scale that came in the Rockchucker kit I bought this past winter. I kinda hate it, but I'd probably have trouble trusting an electronic scale. This balance scale will vary its reading if you tip it and let it re-settle a couple times. I'm sure, though, that the needle being either on the high or low side of the balance line would only be a tenth or two, which shouldn't make too much difference, right?

 

[Guest]

Jason,
I shoot a 30-06. My load is 165 BT, 59.0 H4350 and CCI250 Mag. primer. My gun is a 1975 Rem 700 with 22" barrel. It yields 2830 fps and shoots 1/2" groups most of the time if I do my part correctly at the range. For Elk Hunting using a 30-06 I would select either a Partition or AccuBond in 165 or 180 grain. Opinions will vary here on our site, bottom line is use what you can get the gun to shoot the best. Sounds like you are onto something with the 200 bullets. With the rate of twist you have
you may find better success with 180-200 bullets too.
Are you cleaning the barrel really good between shooting loads? Copper fouling can be very misleading.

Don

 

[Richracer1]

My 30-06 liked 55.5gn of H414 to propel a 180AB at 2832 FPS - which is good for an '06
I also use Federal GM210M primers and Nosler brass.

If your getting almost 2700 with a 200gn bullet from an '06, I be looking for pressure signs, as that's screaming for an '06.

 

[jason miller]

Thanks for the input, guys, but I'm not really looking for advice on which bullets will work for what. Anything I've shot through it so far will be more than good enough for a behind the shoulder shot on any deer/elk walking.

As far as cleaning... The gun only has a couple hundred rounds through it, so I have been cleaning with a regular solvent and then running cr-10 through it until there's no more copper. It has shot its best groups both at the beginning of a range session, and after 50 or so rounds at the end of the day. Cleanliness seems to not matter. After I settle on a load, my cleaning routine will become a lot less thorough.

And in regards to 2700 fps with a 200, rl17 has been getting several guys well over 2700 with 200's in the old '06. I have gone a little higher and not seen any flattened or blown primers, or shiny spots on the brass, and this rifle seems to like them right around 2690. The same load(55 grains rl17) has been getting 2725+ for others with 24" and longer barrels. Like I said, I loaded up some with h4831 to try out just for the fun of it and to see what velocity this rifle gets with that bullet and a more tried-and-true traditional powder.

 

[longguner]

Winchester 760 for heavier bullets..... and you might consider Winchester 780 supreme. too.

The 165's will work fine, with IMR 4895 on elk and smaller.

 

[longguner]

Thanks for the input, guys, but I'm not really looking for advice on which bullets will work for what. Anything I've shot through it so far will be more than good enough for a behind the shoulder shot on any deer/elk walking.

As far as cleaning... The gun only has a couple hundred rounds through it, so I have been cleaning with a regular solvent and then running cr-10 through it until there's no more copper. It has shot its best groups both at the beginning of a range session, and after 50 or so rounds at the end of the day. Cleanliness seems to not matter. After I settle on a load, my cleaning routine will become a lot less thorough.

And in regards to 2700 fps with a 200, rl17 has been getting several guys well over 2700 with 200's in the old '06. I have gone a little higher and not seen any flattened or blown primers, or shiny spots on the brass, and this rifle seems to like them right around 2690. The same load(55 grains rl17) has been getting 2725+ for others with 24" and longer barrels. Like I said, I loaded up some with h4831 to try out just for the fun of it and to see what velocity this rifle gets with that bullet and a more tried-and-true traditional powder.

Anything I've shot through it so far will be more than good enough for a behind the shoulder shot on any deer/elk walking.

You said it.... you hit the nail right on the head

 

[jason miller]

Very good point. Guess I should stop being flustered about not being able to get the 180's going well.

 

[longguner]

the heavier bullets retain velocity/energy longer range.

 

[Guy Miner]

Jason - the .30-06 is a favorite of mine, and has been for a long time. Congrats on your Winchester Featherweight! That's a mighty fine rifle. I've always wanted one myself...

Something you stated about primers bothers me a bit:

"And at over about 2750 fps or above, they occasionally blow a tiny little pinhole at the edge of the primer. I almost wonder if the primers are faulty, because they have occasionally done this in two other rifles at what I thought were "below max" loads. And the pinhole only happens sporadically."

I don't like the pinholes in your primers, not a bit.

You've only used the Winchester primers?

Please consider trying primers from both CCI and Federal. I've loaded them without problems for many years, specifically remember using the CCI's back in the 1970's - and they still work. They have a reputation for being tough, almost never piercing.

I get my best accuracy with two different primers; the Federal 210 match, and the CCI BR2. Both are match grade primers and have helped me produce really consistent loads. The big thing though - is to get rid of those sporadic primer piercing incidents.

Also - I suspect you've read the .30-06 article from John Barsness? If not, it's an excellent guide. Getting the Most out of Your .30-06:

http://www.24hourcampfire.com/newsletters/May_2009.html

My old beat-up .30-06 has a well-worn 21" barrel, and I don't expect high velocity from it. Still, have not had any problem making good hits at 300 yards. Long ago settled on a standard load of H4350 and a Nosler 165 gr bullet for most purposes. It only generates 2750 fps, but... It deals with bear, whitetail & mule deer just fine. I can't imagine that it would have any problem with elk either if I pointed it that way.

Understand your frustration about the 180's. They seem to go together with the .30-06, and I suspect that with some more fooling around, you may get them to shoot well. There are a couple of 180 gr bullets I turn to when I want to see if a .30 cal rifle will be accurate. Three actually: 180 gr Nosler Ballistic Tip (A surprisingly tough bullet that is also very accurate), and both of the Sierra 180's, the boat tail and the flat base. They're both very good, standard construction bullets built to good specs.

BTW - I LIKE that 200 gr load of yours! Terrific! 200's & 220's are great from the .30-06! Talk about penetration... Generally quite accurate too. You stated it... Why bother with 180's when you can shoot the Big Bullets? :grin:

Try a primer swap. Work a bit with the 165's and 180's. Go clobber something with the 200's... Anything, literally. :grin:

Regards, Guy

 

[Jimbeaux82]

I have a 30/06 Win 70 XTR Featherweight as well, although mine is an older model push feed made around 86-87. It has proven to be an exceptionally accurate rifle that I have taken a pile of game with. I am a bit surprised that your rifle does not like 180 gr bullets as mine prefers them. I have done quite a bit of experimenting with 150's and 180's and here are some of the loads that work for me.

150 gr NBT IMR 4895 51.0 grs 2850 fps .75-1" 3 shot groups max load
180 gr Speer FB H4350 57.0 grs 2650 fps .5" groups
58.0 grs 2735 fps .75" groups max load

Also, I have fired Federal Premium 180 gr Nosler Part factory loads , 2724 fps , .5" groups.

I recently bought a Marlin XS7S in 308 with the intention to shoot 150 NBT's in it. No matter what powder or charge I tried, it will not shoot them. So I remembered reading that some rifles do not like boat tailed bullets, so I tried loading flat based 150 gr bullets and it is now shooting around 1 - 1.25" which I can accept, and I will play around with it a bit more to see what I can get. Point is, your rifle may not like boat tailed bullets and you might want to try a good flat based bullet. I am anxious to see what your groups look like with the 180 NP. Please post your results once you get them. Also, if I had to load down a bit (ie 2600-2650 fps) to get good groups with a good 180 gr bullet, it would not bother me one bit and the animals will never be able to tell the difference.

Good luck

 

[.300winmag]

I've had great luck with IMR4350 in my '06 and 165 & 180 Accubonds. I run 57.0 grs with a 180 and 58.0 with a 165. I also have a buddy who is using 180 Accubonds and RL-17 with great success, I'm not sure what his load is though.

 

[JD338]

Jason,

My go to powder in the 30-06 165-180 gr bullets was always IMR 4350 for good speed and sub MOA accuracy in both a M700 and a M742 carbine.

You have a great load with the 200 gr AB and I would be very happy with it.

JD338