30-06 Help

[ldg397]

Working up a load for my Sako 85 in 30-06. Currently using 165 grain accubonds. I loaded 5 rounds each of 55, 56 and 57 grains of IMR 4350. The 55 was about a 2" group nothing special all about equally spread.

I had a three shot group of 1.077 in the 56 grains with a couple of fliers out to 2" which I think were mostly my fault.

Then on the 57 grains had a 3 shot group at .648 and 4 shot group of 1.347.

Pop could you run me a quick load for my sako? I believe it is a 22 7/16" barrel with 1 in 11 twist. CCI BR2 match primer and nosler brass.


Seems I should load a series of bullets between 56 and 57. How small of increment is too small? Quarter grain?

Also the magazine was deforming the tips under recoil there were no signs of pressure. I am loading to OAL 3.634 measured including my 1.000 sinclair comparator. If I calculate it right I am about .014 off the lands. Magazine length is 3.393 tight inside and there is not much room when I load the magazine and the bolt closes easily. Should I lower the length as to not deform the tips? I was really hoping to get closer to the lands.

 

[kraky]

Although alot of people like 4350 with the 165 class bullet your gun may not. Have you got any I4831 or re 19 on hand?. I would play with some other powders near max. It's also possible that you could go up another grain with the 4350 if you know how to watch for pressure. You could also experiment with loading the bullet deeper into the case trying to find another accuracy load if you are bent on 4350. I think I've seen a rule of thumb that when you have an occasional flyer you should try seating the bullet deeper. Just for fun try seating it .050" deeper with that 57 grain load. You might also find a difference with a hotter primer like a fed 210.

 

[ldg397]

I have h4831sc and RL19. I have comtemplated buying some RL22 or another powder.

I have tried to buy Fed 210's where can you buy them from? I bought cci because I had to, i also have some remington primers

 

[kraky]

Do you have a chrono to work with?? Especially with re19 I've seen a wide variance of speed. Some has been virtually as slow as re22 and some nearly as fast as 4350 for me. If you have H4831 it is a virtual ballistic twin to re22. Try some near max loads of the re19 and the H4831. Also....do try seating deeper with that 57 grain load of 4350. Sorry you can't buy the fed primers. I am spoiled up here in a small town in Wisconsin.....our local gunshop always seems to have them on hand. (They probably order a 3 year sales supply at one time!).
HOw many groups have you fired with your 4350 loads....that 57 grain group seemed promissing without the flyer......I'd be trying that again just to see if it was possible operator error or some sort of "flyer fluke".

 

[ldg397]

I don't have a chrono. I am having trouble finding load data for the h4831sc and 165 grain bullets can I just use the 59 to 63 it lists for RL22??


I may load three each at 56.6, 56.8, 57 and 57.2 and see what happens. I will just load one at a time until I get the powder right, I hate to start adjusting anything like primers and OAL before I know for sure on the powder. I may load up some 61, 62 and 63 of the h4831sc also and see what happens.

 

[corbin9191]

Well ldg397, The max load for the H4831sc and the 175 grain bullets is 61.5 grains of powder. So what I would do is start at about 57-59 grains of H4831sc and work your way up slow, and remember that 61.5 grains of powder is a compressed load with the 175's so watch for pressure. Another good powder for the 165's is H4350. The listed max load is 59 grains and that should put you around 2938fps. But start low first.

 

[kraky]

Here's a great place to get data for all hodgdon, win and IMR powder. BTW--they are saying a max of 60 grains I4350 is possible for the 06 with a 165...but I would work up carefully. (That's where a chrono is a helpful aid......put on on your x-max list!!)

http://data.hodgdon.com/main_menu.asp

 

[rick smith]

My standard 30/06 load is 58.5-58.8grs of IMR-4350, Fed 210M or WLR, behind almost any 165gr bullet. Have used it in several manufacturers brass. Shot in over a dozen different 30/06 rifles. Never a problem but I always work up to that with any change of components or rifles.Rick.

 

[old #7]

I have had great results with RL-19 and H4831sc with the 165gr AB in my '06.
Some one will correct me if I am wrong but, I believe you can use the H4831 data for the H4831sc. My understanding is the powders burn rate is the same but the sc version meters better.
I also have problems with deformed tips in my 280ai.
I haven't had the time to a sweet spot with a shorter oal yet.

 

[JD338]

I believe you can use the H4831 data for the H4831sc. My understanding is the powders burn rate is the same but the sc version meters better.

The SC stands for Short Cut. It is the same powder but it meters like a dream.

JD338

 

[FOTIS]

Working up a load for my Sako 85 in 30-06. Currently using 165 grain accubonds. I loaded 5 rounds each of 55, 56 and 57 grains of IMR 4350. The 55 was about a 2" group nothing special all about equally spread.

I had a three shot group of 1.077 in the 56 grains with a couple of fliers out to 2" which I think were mostly my fault.

Then on the 57 grains had a 3 shot group at .648 and 4 shot group of 1.347.

Pop could you run me a quick load for my sako? I believe it is a 22 7/16" barrel with 1 in 11 twist. CCI BR2 match primer and nosler brass.


Seems I should load a series of bullets between 56 and 57. How small of increment is too small? Quarter grain?

Also the magazine was deforming the tips under recoil there were no signs of pressure. I am loading to OAL 3.634 measured including my 1.000 sinclair comparator. If I calculate it right I am about .014 off the lands. Magazine length is 3.393 tight inside and there is not much room when I load the magazine and the bolt closes easily. Should I lower the length as to not deform the tips? I was really hoping to get closer to the lands.

3 shot or 5 shot groups?




Cartridge : .30-06 Spring.
Bullet : .308, 165, Nosler AccuBond 55602
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.340 inch or 84.84 mm
Barrel Length : 22.5 inch or 571.5 mm
Powder : IMR 4350

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 2.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms

-20.0 85 44.80 2180 1741 28051 7334 80.5 1.506
-18.0 87 45.92 2235 1830 29891 7603 81.9 1.466
-16.0 89 47.04 2290 1922 31855 7869 83.3 1.428
-14.0 91 48.16 2346 2017 33951 8132 84.6 1.391
-12.0 93 49.28 2402 2114 36189 8391 86.0 1.354
-10.0 95 50.40 2459 2215 38582 8645 87.2 1.315
-08.0 98 51.52 2515 2318 41140 8894 88.4 1.277
-06.0 100 52.64 2572 2424 43879 9136 89.6 1.239
-04.0 102 53.76 2629 2533 46809 9371 90.7 1.203
-02.0 104 54.88 2687 2645 49954 9598 91.8 1.167 ! Near Maximum !
+00.0 106 56.00 2744 2760 53328 9816 92.8 1.133 ! Near Maximum !
+02.0 108 57.12 2802 2877 56929 10024 93.8 1.101 ! Near Maximum !
+04.0 110 58.24 2860 2997 60779 10221 94.6 1.069 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+06.0 112 59.36 2918 3120 64917 10406 95.5 1.038 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+08.0 115 60.48 2977 3246 69371 10579 96.2 1.009 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+10.0 117 61.60 3035 3375 74172 10739 96.9 0.980 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba 106 56.00 2895 3071 63471 10068 97.9 1.051 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba 106 56.00 2559 2399 43703 9157 84.6 1.239

 

[ldg397]

they were 5 shot groups. If you just look at the full five shot group regardless of fault it was.

56 was 5 shots @ 3.3

57 was 5 shots @ 1.936

I think I am going to load 57 again and then load up in .2 increments and see if it improves watching for pressure. Should I move back the OAL now or wait till I settle on the powder?

 

[FOTIS]

go for 3 shot groups. I never fired 5 shots at an animal

 

[6mm Remington]

I have loaded for 2 different rifles chambered in 30-06, and I have been fortunate to use the same load in both rifles. I have great case life without any pressure signs, and I get 1/2-3/4" three shot groups at 100 yards. I think IMR4350 is an excellent powder for the 30-06, and this is my load. Of course work up cautiously.

Winchester or Remington cases. CCI 200 or Federal 210 primers. MY load is 57.4 grains of IMR4350 with a 165 grain Partition or AccuBond. The muzzle velocity chronographed in the 26" barrel of my Ruger #1B is 2940 fps. The Partitions are seated at an OAL of 3.375.

 

[FOTIS]

I use H4350 or RL19 or 22.

 

[Alaska]

Suggest 60.0 with the 165gr pill

57 with 180's

 

[ldg397]

Before I reloaded some more ammo to double check. I went through everything again checking seating depth etc. This time not using the comparator because either I am not using it correctly or it seems to give some erratic measurements. Does this seem common or is there something wrong with the rifle?

I colored a bullet and inserted in the case and closed the bolt on it multiple times per the nosler book and came up with length measurement of 3.383 or 3.384 without using a comparator. Then the bullet will not eject properly and it almost touches the front of the magazine (obviously in most situations there won't be a bullet in the case still but I would prefer the gun to function with or without the bullet in the case.)

I used to seat the bullet on the lands for my .260 remington rem 700 and had no function problems or deformed tips.

I reloaded some additional rounds without changing the setup on my seating die and they are measuring 3.361 so about 22 thousands off the lands. It seems unusual to me to be setting this far off the lands and still be getting deformation of the tip under recoil. It almost seems like the magazine and ejection opening are too short for the chamber length?

Maybe this is common just never run into it before.

 

[Guest]

First, which comparator are you using? The 'hex' style, or the one with the interchangeable insert for each caliber? (Sinclair makes both kinds.) Also, how are you using it that it is giving you inconsistent measurements? I get a thousandth or three with some bullets just based on the difference in nose profile from one bullet to another out of the box, but .003 is pretty darn close, in my book.

As for the seating depth in relation to the lands, I wouldn't worry about it. I wouldn't worry about the tip deformation, either, as there is a new article out regarding this issue which was a pretty good test of deformed tips, and showed no change in accuracy potential with the tips radically deformed, as I recall. Can't remember which mag it was in, but I think maybe Handloader? Anyway, the tip issue is not a big deal. Back to the seating depth. I wouldn't worry about this because it is very likely that seating back .050" or more won't adversely affect accuracy if you find the next node in your rifle's harmonics. It's pretty simple to do, just play with seating depth until you get it to shoot well. You will very likely find a point where the rifle shoots really surprisingly well (better than what you're getting now) and yet is well off the lands. For instance, I have a 270Wby which has plenty of freebore, but is still laser accurate (sub-.5" at 100yds on command). I was looking for a faster load that would shoot as well as the slow, accurate one, and finally found one, I think. Using 130gr Nosler E-Tips, I fired off several with poor results, seated at magazine length (still well back from the lands in the Weatherby freebored chamber). I went home, studied over what I had been doing so far with this gun, and decided to switch to a slower powder, and shorten the COL up to create a bigger jump (to reduce initial pressure with the E-Tip's long bearing surface). My results were some stellar groups, coming in in the .6-.7" range. I will be verifying these shortly (I hope) and posting pictures as I get time, but I am excited to finally have a 3500fps load that is accurate, too.

 

[ldg397]

I am using the hex style and it usually measures within 3 to 4 thousandths. I guess I was under the impression you use a comparator to get exact measurements. Because I can get within that range without a comparator, so then why would you use one? Maybe just for lead tip bullets when the tips vary more???


I loaded three each at 56.6, 56.8, 57.0 and now I am going to just shut up and shoot. I will see how that goes, then will either progress with hotter loads slowly as long as it looks promising. I will probably load up a few groups to try with h4831sc as well.

 

[rick smith]

There are several things that can contribute to seating depth changes. How the bullet fits the seating stem, some bullets will touch the tip of the seating stem before the remainder of the bullet is in contact notably the VLD type bullets. Variation of the bullets themselves, check the bullets before they are seated. The type of seater you are using, regular seater vs. a competition style. The amount of pressure you apply to the press while seating. Neck tension of the case. How deep you are seating the bullets. The tip or type of material the tip is made from do not matter ,if you measure to the ogive. The tip only matters as it is concerned with the fit in the seating stem.
Your comparator is measuring to the ogive a much more accurate measurement than measuring to the tip. I have used the hex nut from Sinclair but have a Stoney Point comparator that I use for all the measurements. Every loader has to decide how much variation he/she will allow in bullet seating. For competition shooting I want them to be within 0.001", for hunting I allow 2-3 thou. There is no magic being close to the lands since there can be more than one spot where the rifle will shoot well as dubyam has shown with his WBY. I also don't worry about tips getting a little deformed in the mag box. That has never effected my groups.Rick.