308 or 280 for a young lady

[Slimfinn]

So my oldest daughter(13) is a lefty which is a great reason for buying new guns! She currently shoots a rem 700 youth 243 that I just ordered a B&C stock to replace the plastic one, and was thinking about rebarreling it to a 260 but have decided against it and better to leave as a 243 for 85% of her hunting. So the other 15%would be elk and a possible moose if the tag is ever drawn maybe a black bear if she ever had the urge.
Looking over the recoil chart the 308 and 280 are pretty similar, and per the federal site the 280 will push a 150gr Partition about 100fps faster. Advantages I see for the 308 are the short action, and variety/availability of ammo and ability to go with a heavier bullet. The 280 has always intrigued me though, but I have never been able to justify it with what I already have(25-06, 260, 30-06) and think this could be a good opportunity to get one.
Any thoughts, will the 280 be able to cover that 15%?

 

[Anonymous]

The drawback to long action rifles is that they're rarely available with reduced dimension stocks and are awkward when cut down.

You could take the 7-08, the .308 and the 280 Remington and no critter alive could tell the difference.

For a low recoiling killing stick available in reduced stocks- the 7-08 or .308 is very hard to beat.

 

[DrMike]

The drawback to long action rifles is that they're rarely available with reduced dimension stocks and are awkward when cut down.

You could take the 7-08, the .308 and the 280 Remington and no critter alive could tell the difference.

For a low recoiling killing stick available in reduced stocks- the 7-08 or .308 is very hard to beat.

Excellent points for serious consideration.

 

[HAWKEYESATX]

To say the least, yes, the .280 will fill that 15% extremely well. It's a lot flatter shooting than the .308, and hits a little harder, plus, using a 150 gr 7mm bullet, it has a much better Sectional Density than the .308, unless you use a heavy for cal bullet in the .308.
In factory ammo, the .280 will be able to shoot all the way out to 450-500 yds and cleanly kill an elk. I don't think the .308 has as long of reach.
The .308 has going for it, a lot more loads to offer in factory ammo. Inexpensive ammo, and can find ammo for it almost everywhere.

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[fightthenoise]

I have a Model 70 featherweight in .280 Rem that absolutely barks. Recoil is fierce. I wouldn’t let me wife near it. She’s pretty recoil sensitive and much prefers the short action calibers. I wouldn’t feel undergunned on elk with any short actio 6.5/7mm/.308 and it’ll be much more pleasant to shoot in her formative years.

 

[jimbires]

I think I'd go with a 308 . I worked with a young girl about 10 years ago that had a 308 . I used some very reduced loads and she shot well with them . if you would use H4895 powder you can use the 15% rule and let the recoil grow as she gets used to it . I found some very light loads in my one manual I loaded for her , if you want these let me know . I wouldn't have any problem hunting elk and moose with a 308 , but these would not be reduced loads . making the rifle fit her will help with the recoil .

 

[Blkram]

Has your daughter had a chance to try other, bigger caliber rifles to see what her recoil tolerance is going to be? Such as your 25-06, 260 and 30-06?

Of course, rifles that do not fit well are going to have felt recoil that is different to what is felt from a properly fitted rifle for her; but at least you'll have an idea of what cartridge she will be comfortable with.

As examples:
My wife is tall, and strong (farmgirl), but does not like recoil, and her 7mm-08 is at the top of her tolerance range. Had to replace the factory stock recoil pad on her rifle with a LimbSaver to make it more comfortable for her.
My daughter is short, and fairly tough (cowgirl), and tolerates recoil better. Shot her first big game animal (mule deer buck) with my BLR in 358 Win. Before buying her a rifle, we took her to the range with a variety of rifles to determine which she was going to be most comfortable with. She shot a borrowed 260 Rem, my wife's 7mm-08, a used 270 from the LGS, a borrowed 338 Federal and my 358 Win. In the end she chose the 270 Win (the used Rem 700 Titanium from the LGS) as the one she liked the most. Her main goal is an elk with this rifle.

The nice thing is that there are some options for your daughter in left hand configurations that will fit her
I.e. Left Hand Rem 700 SPS Youth in 7mm-08, Left Hand Browning X-Bolt Micro Midas, Left Handed Savage 11 trophy Hunter Compact in 308 Win.
There are also other left handed rifles that could be altered to fit her (new or shortened stock, or rebarreled to desired cartridge)
I.e. Left Hand Rem 700 SPS in 270 Win, Left Hand Browning X-Bolt Hunter in 280 Rem, Left Hand Savage 111 Trophy Hunter in 270 Win.

A matching rifle to her 243 in 7mm-08 would be a good choice, as it would handle just like her 243 which she is comfortable with and can obviously handle well in the field. That familiarity will breed confidence in the larger cartridge. The added advantage is the additional spacers that can be added as she grows and her lop lengthens.
Good luck in your search!

The 280 Rem is a great cartridge, and is my personal favourite!

 

[SJB358]

I’d do either one. Some H4895 with light bullets would make them both pretty nice to shoot, easily on the 243 level. I use reduced loads for my daughter in her 7-08 and it’s a gentle Ben for her. 280 or 308 wouldnt be much different.

 

[preacher]

I had one of the early 80s, first run Ruger 77 Ultralight in .308. That was one mean little devil and not easy to hit with either! Go lightweight, but not that light and shoot the 130 Barnes in the .308 and the 120 Barnes in either a 7mm/08 or .280. Both will do just fine and you won't have to slow them down much, if at all! I'm glad you have a daughter that wants to hunt with you...

 

[HAWKEYESATX]

I had one of the early 80s, first run Ruger 77 Ultralight in .308. That was one mean little devil and not easy to hit with either! Go lightweight, but not that light and shoot the 130 Barnes in the .308 and the 120 Barnes in either a 7mm/08 or .280. Both will do just fine and you won't have to slow them down much, if at all! I'm glad you have a daughter that wants to hunt with you...

Amen preacher!

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[Slimfinn]

Great points guys, not sure why the 7mm-08 slipped my mind, especially in the matching Remington 700 youth. And I didn't realize that Browning did the Micro in a lefty. I guess in my mind I had 2 options, the Ruger Gunsite or replacing/modifying a stock right away. I am going to have to keep my eyes open. I'm not in too big of a hurry unless she goes and draws a tag on her first try.
I haven't had her try anything bigger yet, she didn't have much interest in anything other than deer until I asked if she wanted to put in for any special tags this spring, but will once the spring weather shows up. I have a pound of H4895 I bought this winter for reduced loads, loaded up some 260's for the younger daughter to shoot this year, but haven't got out to try them yet.

 

[HAWKEYESATX]

You can get a Thompson Center Compass in 7mm-08, and .308 Win. You can also get a Thompson Center Compass in .270 Win, and put a muzzle brake on it, or even put a muzzle brake on all of them, since they all have threaded barrels. Will make them all strictly Patty cake to shoot, but extremely lethal to receive.
I myself like the TC Venture, I just ordered one in .280 Rem, and also have one in .270 Win!
If I had known more about the .280 before getting my .270, I would strictly be a .280 Rem man, that's one heck of a cartridge, and if it looks great on paper, I'm sure it's amazing to hunt with in real life.

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[SJB358]

You can get a Thompson Center Compass in 7mm-08, and .308 Win. You can also get a Thompson Center Compass in .270 Win, and put a muzzle brake on it, or even put a muzzle brake on all of them, since they all have threaded barrels. Will make them all strictly Patty cake to shoot, but extremely lethal to receive.
I myself like the TC Venture, I just ordered one in .280 Rem, and also have one in .270 Win!
If I had known more about the .280 before getting my .270, I would strictly be a .280 Rem man, that's one heck of a cartridge, and if it looks great on paper, I'm sure it's amazing to hunt with in real life.

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If you can figure out the difference between a 270 and 280 Hawkeye, post it up! Both are phenomenal killers. :mrgreen:

 

[HAWKEYESATX]

SJB358,

The only difference, if it really makes a difference, is the 280 has a plethora of bullets it can use. 115 all the way up to 175. Now, the .270 has 100-160 gr. The 7mm has better BC, and SD. I think the 7mm bullets are a little better to hunt elk.
But, I'm not knocking the .270, I know it's a proven performer.

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[mjcmichigan]

7-08! Can’t go wrong.


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[Dwh7271]

Get any of them and put a really good brake on it. That’ll eat a big percentage of the recoil but just make sure your hearing protection is good.
I lean toward the 7-08. Lot of flexibility there and there’s not a lot the 280 will do that the 7-08 won’t.

 

[hunter24605]

I have a Model 70 featherweight in .280 Rem that absolutely barks. Recoil is fierce. I wouldn’t let me wife near it. She’s pretty recoil sensitive and much prefers the short action calibers. I wouldn’t feel undergunned on elk with any short actio 6.5/7mm/.308 and it’ll be much more pleasant to shoot in her formative years.

I was just going to say the same thing, I have the M70 Fwt 280 and it has a pretty sharp punch to it, more so than my 30-06 Savage, but I assume that can be contributed to the light weight of the M70.

My daughter is slight of build and shoots her 7-08 very well. As of late she has fell in love with my brothers 308 and does very well shooting it..She wants to step up to one of her own.

 

[gbflyer]

I hate recoil. I often times short sell other folks because of my dislike. I got to thinking about this the other day when my neighbor friends posted a pic of a big bull bison recently harvested in the Farewell area. They are professional guides, so there is that, but the lady of the group who is the real star of the show packs a .416 Remington Mag. She swears by thumbhole stocks for heavy recoiling guns, we’ve talked about it a lot. She came up guiding, that’s what she’s done since she was old enough to follow her Dad in the woods. She’s a petite little gal, might weigh #110 soaking wet. Tough as nails too. Killed a charging wounded brown bear last year at the muzzle. If we ever go to war I want her on my team.

We hate to get someone flinching but sometimes we make assumptions. I don’t know your daughter but it sounds like she does some shooting. Might be that a little more bite won’t phase her one bit.

 

[preacher]

I know its not a "first choice", but a .280 or .308 in a semi auto ( Remington 7400-750 or Browning BAR) is a very soft shooter! My wifes cousin has been using an older Mod 740 in .280 for over 40 yrs now. she is a slender little woman ( also about 110) and has used it on deer/hogs even bull elk. My other hunting buddy up here ises a BLR in .308 and 150 factory load on mule deer/elk/ and one big cow Bison, ha! So pick a lighter weight bolt gun/brake it or a bit heavier semi. You can get trigger replacements for the Remington 7400/750 now too. My BIL has used his Mod 742 in .308 since the early 70s. Its very soft in recoil.

 

[Polaris]

I have considerable experience shooting both rounds. With mild recoiling .308 150gr vs .280 Rem 150 gr, I don't care what the numbers say, the .280 feels "sharper," even though they should be identical. That being said, it is not unmanageable, even for a shooter of lighter build. The ballistics of a 7mm 150 gr vs a .308 150 grain at similar velocity put the .280, or the 7mm-08 in an increasing lead with range. I'd say the .308s ability to efficiently handle a stout 180 grain bullet put it in the lead if moose are ever on the menu. That's the reason my wife's rifle is in that caliber. If you handload, both can readily be made a peach to shoot. My wife started out shooting her .308 with loads at aprox 2200fps. These were very mild, and we worked up to full power within a couple of years.

We did restock her rifle with some proper walnut a few years ago. At the same time, I decreased the LOP and sanded the comb to fit her high cheek bones properly, and removed some wood in the wrist and forend to better fit her hands. This made as much difference (subjectively to her) in perceived recoil as shooting the downloaded ammunition. This is the route I would go, pick your poison on caliber, both will do the job, but restock the rifle for proper fit. I would suggest an inexpensive Boyds or Richards Microfit until she's done growing, then a new rifle with an heirloom grade walnut stock can be her graduation present. I got their frontier sportster style, and it is a very comfortable and accurate shooter with the addition of an accraglass bedding kit. Below is a link to a Savage M11 with the bolt on the wrong side as yours will be, set up with that stock style. I think you'll be able to see it. This is $200 lumber, but their $70 lumber makes a stock just as functional and accurate. Was looking for a picture I used to have with a comparison between the factory stock and this one, but can't find it. The differences in important areas are striking.
https://scontent-ort2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/ ... e=5D0F8469