.308 Rem. 700 question

[Mark]

I bought a used SS 308 Remington 700 with SS 6.5x20 Leupold 30mm scope and for a grand and it was not used very much. Fired the gun with factory ammo before I bought it and shoots 2 inched at 100 yards and negotiated with him that it does not shoot well and took 400 bucks off to a grand and took this baby home.
I cleaned the bore with JB bore paste and Kroil/ with bronze brush after that, repeat again and lightly oil at the end. It was very dirty, he said it had never been cleaned. It was spotless and made some load developments with Nosler BT's. I used several powders and some shot OK, some didn't and I relized that I am using this, that, this and that. So I stuck with one powder at a time and stuck with RL15 and it shot well with a mild load .0010" off the lands and increased the charge to maximum and did not shoot good. With the mild loads, it shot around .3 MOA and with the hotter loads .6-.7
Another problem came up, I realized that this is to be used as a hunting rifle( I am a competition freak). I have several comp rifles capable of .100 MOA or better. The .308 bullets I made were too long and won't fit the magazine for follow up shots. Bullets I made were 3.920" and I seated the bullets deeper to fit the mag and it measured 2.815" Whoooo, that is a long jump to the kiss the lands. I have not tried out the loads yet, made them back when the farmers crops were growing on my farm and cannot see the berm where my targets are placed. As of now, fields are plowed and , oh boy, can't wait to start shooting, it has been since April.
I assume that the loads I made may not shoot well because the bullets are a long way from the lands. I was afraid that the bullets may wobble a bit making the jump to the lands.

Any suggestions?
Would using the 165 grn or 180 grn. Nosler BT be better than the 150's because of its length?
Any great loads, anyone?
Mark

 

[remingtonman_25_06]

In my experiences with BT's, seat them as long as your mag will allow. If your rifle likes the load, usualy .5" at 100 yards. What more can one ask for hunting? This should translate roughly into a 4-6" group at 800 yards, if everythings right, which is plenty accurate for deer and elk.

 

[JD338]

Try the 165 gr BT. This is an excellent all around bullet in the 308.

JD338

 

[rick smith]

No rule that the bullet has to be near the lands to shoot well, some WBY mags shoot very well and they have more free bore than you do. My 308 uses 47.0grs RL 15, WLR primer, 150gr Nosler Solid Base, Lapua brass and clover leafs at 100 yds. I am well over 50 thou from the lands. The bullet is not going to wobble unless you have runout.Rick.

 

[Guest]

You have to be a little careful, depending on the bullet you are using, but I have had great results using the Lee Factory Crimp Die for my rifles. I find that putting a good crimp on the bullet really standardizes the loads, and has cut my velocity SD by a measureable margin (didn't check to see if it is statistically significant, but it is noticeably better in consistency of velocity) and improved my accuracy. It is a cheap fix, too, as the die can be bought from any number of places for generally about $10. Most of the internet mail order places have them, and .308 is readily available.

I started using them for my bolt rifles to keep the bullets from deep-seating under recoil, but really found them to be useful when I started loading for a .243Win in a Browning BAR. In this gun, mag length dictated seating well off the lands, so I used the crimp doe to get uniformity of start pressure, so to speak. At least that's the story Lee himself tells about them in his load manual. Anyway, I suggest giving them a try. You only have to be careful not to crimp right on the bulkhead in a Partition, or on the solid portion of something like a failsafe. I have never crimped Barnes, either, but the TSX might be crimpable in one of the grooves. Not sure what that would do to case stretch, however. For most all other bullets, the crimp die just makes a little bit of a cannelure groove on the bullet, and sinks the case mouth into that groove. Very handy overall.

 

[Guy Miner]

Mark, I hunt with and compete in NRA highpower with the .308 Win. A stock Remington usually has room for at least a 220 grain bullet. Almost never can a 168/165 grain bullet be seated to touch the lands.

This however, seldom becomes a problem. Most of the 168's, 165's and 150's make the "jump" just fine. Typically, those standard Remington barrels are good for 1/2 - 3/4 MOA with good handloads.

A good gauge of accuracy potential with the .308 is to shoot a box of factory loaded, Federal Gold Medal match ammo. Most Rem 700's shoot the stuff nicely. If your handloads beat that, they're performing very well indeed.

Regards, Guy

 

[Desert Fox]

There are so many variables to be considered in order for the reloaded ammo to shoot accurately. Setting depth is one of many. I always look into them as the last resort before I give up on the load I'm working on. For me case prep, carefull choice of powder and bullet and meticulous handloading are more important than anything else. It doesn't matter whether my rifle is Factory or Custom, my case preparation is still the same. The result is consistent and accurate ammo.

 

[Guest]

Amen on the case prep issue, as well as careful preparation of the loads themselves. I hand throw everything, because I find it is consistent. I hand prime for the same reason, and check primer depth, as well as keep my cases equal in length per batch. Nothing like the small stuff to keep my OCD side happy. That said, the crimp issue, or seating near the lands, is a big influence in some rifles as far as accuracy is concerned. I know it has helped in my BAR, which I am currently working up loads for. More as that develops...

 

[FOTIS]

If I had a 308 (actually thinking about one for my boy. He will be legal hunting age next year) I would use the 165 AB or PT at about 2800 for every big game. I like easy.

 

[JD338]

If I had a 308 (actually thinking about one for my boy. He will be legal hunting age next year) I would use the 165 AB or PT at about 2800 for every big game. I like easy.

308 Win with a 165 gr AB, perfect choice!

JD338

 

[Desert Fox]

Let me add some more insight into this thread to prove my point. Below were two examples of group fired at 100 yards by two different rifles. One a custom super accurate 308 Tactical Rifle and the other a Model 70 Laredo 300 Win mag factory rifle. As you can see the only common theme here is how the components were prepared for reloading.

First the Model 70 Laredo ten shot group. Case prep includes uniforming primer pocket, deburr primer pocket, segregated brass, turned neck for uniformity, trimmed case to equal lenght, segregate bullet by weight. .150" off the land due magazine limitation.

Components:

Federal Gold medal Brass
180 grain Sierra SP
Federal 215 Match primer
82 grain H1000

Here's the Custom Tactical 308 10 shot group, same case prep but .010" off the land.

Components:

Federal Gold Medal Brass
168 grain J4 Nosler Competition
Federal 210 Match primer
43.5 grain BLC-2

 

[Mark]

I use Lapua cases and it mostly do not need to deburr flash holes or neck turn. I do weigh the cases and sort them and also the match bullets. I just full size new cases first and fireform them and neck size afterwards. I trim them and next I square/ clean primer pockets. I individually powder measure and fill cases one by one. I handseat primers also. I check bullet runout and my comp rifles have one thousands bullet runout or less. My 7mm Mag, STW hunting rifles have around .002-.004 bullet runout and shoots .250 MOA or better. I do what I can on case preperations but I would need to experiment with this factory rifle and will do that this weekend. I have only test fired this gun with at least 25 rounds so far last April with the bullets kissing the lands but need to shorten them to fit the mag.
I have been reloading for the last 12 years and have several comp rifles capable of .100 MOA or less with Bergers and Matchkings. Case preperations are indeed important if you want to succeed in accuracy.

 

[beretta96d]

currently using norma match brass neck sized only, with federal match primers, 45gr Varget and 168gr Matchkings seated just off the lands. This load shoots ragged hole groups all day.

for hunting, my wife and I both use the same cases, federal nickel plated using the same primers as above and same charge with 165gr PT's. With this load we're both hovering around the 1 MOA. Plenty fine for our hunting ranges. We would never shoot at big game past 300 yards anyway.

I shoot a Rem 700 VS LH(soon to be 338federal) and my wife's is a Win 70.

 

[Sharpsman]

I was wondering if someone was going to mention Varget as it's one more accurate powder in the .308 Win! It came into this world as Mulwex 2208...a powder from Finland and we use it in our Palma rifles for International competition. Starting load was 45.3 grs. with a F210M primer and the 155 gr. Sierra Palma bullet. I use it in my .308 Win hunting rifle at 47.0 grs. with a NBT....and deer and bull elk usually hit on their noses!! :lol: :lol:

 

[stinky]

i'll take this bad shooter off your hands for $400

 

[Alaska]

Even with Varget you will have a hard time beating IMR 4895 in the 308 Win.

Used all of them........Top 4 choices......IMR 4895, Varget, Reloader 15 and IMR 4064.


With 155 or 150 the H322 worked real good!

 

[Desert Fox]

I used 44.9 grain of Varget and 155 grain Lapua Scenar. Shoot less than half inch five shot at 100 yards.

 

[Alaska]

You are on the low end with 155......top end is above 47 grains of Varget.........you are getting good accuracy but lower Vel at that level.........depends on what you won't!

Most Palma shooters need the high end......snipers the low end.....me I am just a hunter now......high OCW.

 

[Desert Fox]

Might be something to do with the Pac-Nor Supermatch 3 grove. I'm getting 2900plus fps on a 25 inch barrel. What more do I need.

 

[Alaska]

Good shooting.........Varget is a good powder for the 308 Win.......

I use 44.2 with 180 Nosler AB and CCI Br2 in Norma Brass as my hunting load in my 308 Win..........super load!

At 44.8 you proably still had room to move up based off what brass your using. With the 155 Palma I was north of 47.0