.308 Short Barreled Varget Loads

[nosler06]

I know I am probably boring many with this info request, but here goes.

I have just loaded and tried Varget powder and 165gr Nosler Part bullets for my .308 Browning BLR which I believe is a 19.5" barrel. The results vary, and I am wondering what loads have worked best for others with a short barreled .308 rifle and Varget with 165gr bullets? I can see 44.0grs are not too bad grouping and the 46.0grs are also not bad. Nosler manual shows 44.0grs as their most accurate load tried for the 165gr Partition. Any thoughts? Others have told me that 44.5grs was the best.

 

[Guy Miner]

Edited - man - I just looked at the target you posted for your 46 gr load! Yee Haw! That's an excellent load for your rifle!

I'd grab onto an 8# jug of Varget, and as many of those bullets & primers as you can and load merrily away. That's your load. Velocity is as good as it's going to get with a 20" barrel, and the accuracy results are stellar.

You're there! Now, go find a big antlered buck and drop him! :grin: Seriously, I'd hunt whitetail, mule deer, black bear or elk with that load & rifle. Absolutely. Sight it in at 200 yards and go fill tags. Far as I'm concerned, load development is done at that point.

Regards, Guy

 

[DrMike]

Guy nailed it perfectly! You've got your load, now go tag some game.

 

[nosler06]

Edited - man - I just looked at the target you posted for your 46 gr load! Yee Haw! That's an excellent load for your rifle!

I'd grab onto an 8# jug of Varget, and as many of those bullets & primers as you can and load merrily away. That's your load. Velocity is as good as it's going to get with a 20" barrel, and the accuracy results are stellar.

You're there! Now, go find a big antlered buck and drop him! :grin: Seriously, I'd hunt whitetail, mule deer, black bear or elk with that load & rifle. Absolutely. Sight it in at 200 yards and go fill tags. Far as I'm concerned, load development is done at that point.

Regards, Guy

Guy nailed it perfectly! You've got your load, now go tag some game.

Thanks guys. I am a bit confused though as some info that was written on Canadian Gunnutz was as below posted by some others::

"46 gr of Varget is a fairly hot load with 155 gr bullets out of a bolt gun with a 30 inch barrel. I would think the same load with a heavier bullet out of a lever action would be a very hot load."

"I've been dabbling with reloading .308 lately. I've only worked up one batch so far, but I found that out of 40gn , 41gn, 42gn, 43gn, and 43.5gn, the 40gn grouped the best.

The surplus ammo I was shooting did good groupings and only had 40gn of powder. What I am learning as that 'more is not necessarily' better.

My next work-up will be 39, 39.5, 40, 40.5 "

Now the confusing part comes that if 46.0grs of Varget in .308 165gr bullet is extremely hot for a load what would Nosler be doing publishing it in their manuals for. I also think why would I drop 2.0grs below the start point of what a manual starts st?

 

[JD338]

I agree with Guy and Mike, you are there.
Stock up on components and powder and don't look back.

JD338

 

[SJB358]

I agree with Guy and Mike, you are there.
Stock up on components and powder and don't look back.

JD338

Yup, I am with Jim. I can't see a problem at ALL with your load!

Cartridge : .308 Win. (SAAMI)
Bullet : .308, 165, Nosler PART SP 16330
Useable Case Capaci: 48.677 grain H2O = 3.161 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.800 inch = 71.12 mm
Barrel Length : 19.5 inch = 495.3 mm
Powder : Hodgdon VARGET

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 1.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms

-10.0 95 41.40 2409 2126 44717 8714 94.3 1.131
-09.0 96 41.86 2435 2172 46156 8818 94.8 1.115
-08.0 97 42.32 2461 2219 47638 8921 95.2 1.099
-07.0 99 42.78 2487 2267 49169 9021 95.6 1.083
-06.0 100 43.24 2513 2314 50751 9119 96.0 1.067
-05.0 101 43.70 2539 2363 52386 9214 96.4 1.052
-04.0 102 44.16 2566 2412 54075 9307 96.7 1.037
-03.0 103 44.62 2592 2461 55822 9397 97.1 1.022 ! Near Maximum !
-02.0 104 45.08 2618 2511 57629 9484 97.4 1.008 ! Near Maximum !
-01.0 105 45.54 2644 2561 59497 9569 97.7 0.993 ! Near Maximum !
+00.0 106 46.00 2670 2612 61430 9650 98.0 0.979 ! Near Maximum !
+01.0 107 46.46 2696 2663 63430 9728 98.2 0.965 ! Near Maximum !
+02.0 108 46.92 2722 2715 65501 9804 98.5 0.952 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+03.0 109 47.38 2748 2767 67645 9876 98.7 0.939 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+04.0 110 47.84 2774 2819 69866 9945 98.9 0.926 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+05.0 111 48.30 2800 2873 72166 10010 99.1 0.913 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba 106 46.00 2784 2839 72229 9519 100.0 0.915 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba 106 46.00 2519 2324 50863 9351 92.3 1.063


From what I have shot out of my own 308, your load is fine, with the results you are getting, Guy nailed it, go hunt elk, bear, moose and deer. I think your load is right around the 60K PSI mark, and out of your rifle, I can't see a darned thing wrong with it.

 

[gerry]

It looks fine, the BLR is strong enough to handle full power loads. Hope you draw some good LEH draws this year maybe get to try your new load soon, possibly look for a spring blackie?

 

[nosler06]

So I guess I am going to load up a few more 46.0gr Varget loads and head back to the range a try it again. I did not see any signs of over pressure on the cartridge at all. I did have a case seperation, but I believe that one due to being my older Dominion brass that has been reloaded 10+ times. I am turfing that lot. Not interested in stuck casings or actually stuck top 75% of the brass. As soon as I get some extra cash I am going to pick up some Nosler brass for my .308 and 30-06. I have heard great reviews on it.

 

[nosler06]

Antelope_Sniper wrote:
N6, with a .308 size case I'd use .5gr increments.
A full grain is fine for a RUM size case, but too much for a mid size case.

If you start at 42gr and load 4 per increment, one box of 20 takes you to 44gr, the book max. This will provide a moderate increase of 2k PSI per increment, giving you a better opportunity to see changes in pressure signs, and group performance.

When loading I generally prefer more caution, and more data while discovering the limits of my rifle and components:


Code:
Cartridge : .308 Win.
Bullet : .308, 165, Nosler BalTip 30165
Useable Case Capaci: 46.812 grain H2O = 3.039 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.800 inch = 71.12 mm
Barrel Length : 26.0 inch = 660.4 mm
Powder : Hodgdon VARGET

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 1.136% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms

-11.4 93 39.00 2470 2235 40575 5900 95.0 1.412
-10.2 95 39.50 2499 2288 42060 5976 95.5 1.390
-09.1 96 40.00 2529 2343 43600 6050 95.9 1.368
-08.0 97 40.50 2558 2397 45200 6121 96.3 1.347
-06.8 98 41.00 2587 2452 46857 6191 96.7 1.326
-05.7 99 41.50 2616 2508 48570 6258 97.1 1.305
-04.5 101 42.00 2646 2565 50341 6323 97.5 1.285
-03.4 102 42.50 2675 2621 52176 6386 97.8 1.265 ! Near Maximum !
-02.3 103 43.00 2704 2679 54082 6445 98.1 1.246 ! Near Maximum !
-01.1 104 43.50 2733 2737 56062 6503 98.4 1.227 ! Near Maximum !
+00.0 105 44.00 2762 2795 58119 6557 98.6 1.209 ! Near Maximum !
+01.1 107 44.50 2791 2854 60257 6609 98.9 1.191 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+02.3 108 45.00 2820 2913 62480 6658 99.1 1.173 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+03.4 109 45.50 2849 2973 64793 6704 99.3 1.155 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+04.5 110 46.00 2877 3033 67199 6747 99.4 1.138 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+05.7 111 46.50 2906 3094 69704 6787 99.6 1.121 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!




According to this table 46.0grs of Varget is a "DAGEROUS LOAD DO NOT USE" and 110%, so a very compressed load. This is now starting to have me slightly worried and confused. If it is 110% capacity how do I get the powder in enough to start seating the bullet?

 

[nosler06]

I confirmed that both Nosler Manuals #6 and #7 have the same data sets for the 165gr bullet and Varget powders. Hodgdon's site has this data for 165gr bullet .308 Winchester:

Bullet Wt(Gr.) Manuf Powder Bullet Diam. C.O.L. Grs. Vel. Pressure Grs. Vel. Pressure
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
165 GR. HDY SP Hodgdon Varget .308" 2.750" 42.0 2582 40,800 CUP 46.0C 2773 50,500 CUP

So, I think that from what I see other than this other chart that says 46.0grs is a dangerous load 46.0grs should be fine other than being a max load. I will be hitting the range on Tuesday, so load up some more and see what it will do again.

 

[Guy Miner]

One thing to keep in mind is that different .308 Win cases have considerably different case capacity, and what is a mild load in one case can be a max load in another.

Some Winchester cases weigh but 155 grains.

Some Lake City 7.62 cases, and some Federal .308 cases weigh as much as 175 - 177 grains! That's a whopping 20 grains difference in weight between some of the light Winchester cases and the heavy military & Federal cases. Powder capacity can vary considerably.

This could well be why some sources will declare a load unsafe, while other sources calmly print it for all to see & use.

Mostly I've used Winchester cases for my .308 loads, though I also have used quite a bit of Federal, and some Lapua, along with small lots from other manufacturers.

When I compete in a match, using the 155 gr match bullets, I'll load up to 47 grains of Varget and spank that 155 out at 3,000 fps! Nosler has even published 48.5 gr loads with the 155's & Varget. I was scratching my head trying to figure out how to get 48.5 grains of powder in there, but it is a published load!

Also - and I think someone else mentioned it - your BLR is hardly a typical lever action, capable of handling only low pressure loads. The bolt on your BLR locks up just like a bolt action rifle, very strong. If it wasn't so strong, the factory wouldn't chamber BLR's in cartridges like the .300 WSM & .300 Win mag...

 

[nosler06]

I have just finished reloading another 8 rounds of 46.0grs Varget and the 165gr Part. Also loaded another set of 4 rounds of 44.0grs Varget and the 165 Part. Heading to the range on Tuesday and will see what it looks like again.

 

[FOTIS]

That is a fine load. My sako finnwolf in 308 uses 45 gr.

 

[Mud]

Check out the you tube video below. I wanted to use varget but no one has any in stock. I was lucky and found some RL 15 the other day.

http://youtu.be/c5SmiMSF20A

Larry

 

[AzDak42]

I've had very good luck with R15 and the 165g Partition out of a Rem 788 with a shorter barrel. Very accurate.

 

[Guy Miner]

Check out the you tube video below. I wanted to use varget but no one has any in stock. I was lucky and found some RL 15 the other day.

http://youtu.be/c5SmiMSF20A

Larry

Larry - excellent video! Thanks for posting that. It's a very good explanation of the ladder test for achieving a precision handload.

Guy

 

[nosler06]

I did get to the range today, and found after shooting 43.5grs, 44.0grs, 44.5grs and 45.0grs that the 45.0grs started to show the early signs of pressure. I carefully checked each primer and case prior to shot and the primers started to show signs at 45.0grs. I never did shoot the 4 rounds of 46.0grs to see if the tight group would be duplicated. After carefully checking the targets I have decided I will back the load down to the 44.0grs of Varget and shoot my mulie in the fall. The group for the 44.0grs was around
1.25". I am happy with that and will shoot some more groups to see if the group will tighten up.