308 Win, 165NBT/168Cust Comp.

[Savage Fanatic]

I've been trying to work up a load to us in my .308. Using Nosler's #6 Manal, Hodgdon's BL-C(2) is the most accurate powder for the 165/168gr bullets.

Yet according to that data the most accurate load when using BL-C(2) is the max 46gr. and this is where I get stumped.

Im shooting a Savage 10FP with a 26" barrel. I've tried winchester, Federal GM, Remington, and Nosler brass. I've tried changing primers. I've increased and decreased the bullet jump. I've even went to the extent of weight matching the brass.

Only to see signs of pressure when I work past 44gr. Excess swelling above the web. If I shoot factory loads I don't have this issue.

I've sent the rifle back to the manufacture only to be told they don't see any thing wrong with it.

At this point Im lost for answers as to why I would be seeing indications of excess pressure when Im loading well below max.

 

[Richracer1]

Each rifle is unique and each will respond differently. The manuals are only guides and you have to figure out what works in your rifle. As you mentioned, 44gn of BLC(2) is an overpressure load for your rifle. The one thing you did not mention was the accuracy of the loads? If they were not satisfactory for you, try another powder.

 

[corbin9191]

I am having great results with the Nosler custom comp 168 grain bullet and 45 grains of IMR 4064 and CCI BR-2 primers. I am getting .637 inch groups at 100 yards with this load and the velocity is 2717 at muzzle. The COAL is 2.800 inches. Good luck!

 

[Guy Miner]

Every rifle is different, and that's why we work up to loads. "Max" in one rifle may be well above safe in another...

One chamber may be a bit tighter than another.

One chamber may be throated longer than another.

The actual bore of one rifle may be larger or smaller by a bit.

The finish of the bore may be different, and may produce more friction. Buyers of custom barrels (like me) pay good money for a hand-lapped Krieger that is smooth as.... :grin:

If your rifle tells you "no more" then listen to it. BL-C(2) is a fine powder, but may not be the best for your application. For over 10 years I've been using Varget, mostly with 155 & 165/168 grain bullets from my various .308 Win rifles - with good enough results to win a few minor matches and do well in others. I've shot a few 2.5" groups at 600 yards with a couple of my rifles, even though I'm not really a benchrest kind of guy. That was shooting prone off a backpack, or off a bipod. Much prefer the backpack by the way. Varget... The stuff can work really well.

If that doesn't trip your trigger, consider RL-15, another very well respected powder for the .308 Win. Or good old IMR 4064, the one-time darling of the match shooters... H4895 has also done very well for me when I've messed with it in the .308 Win.

There's an excellent article on loading the .308 Winchester over on 6mmBR.com, here's a link:

http://www.6mmbr.com/308Win.html

Good stuff there! Seems like your rifle just doesn't want any more BL-C(2). That's fine, either shoot it at lower charges or switch to something else. Easier to adjust the load than the rifle.

Regards, Guy

 

[Desert Fox]

BLC-2 is an excellent powder for 308 Winchester. I use it when loading Nosler 168 grain Competition Bullet. You have to be careful with BLC because they're extremely temperature sensitive. I worked up two loads using BLC for my rifle. I maxed to 45 grain for winter shooting, and a mild 43.5 grain for summer shooting. The summer load duplicate the velocity of the 168 grain Federal Gold Medal factory load.

Here's a 10 shot group with that powder and bullet combination at 110 yards.

 

[Savage Fanatic]

My foolishness, I never took in to consideration the possibility of temperature sensitivity.

I suppose if I were to take the same load I was shooting over the summer and head to the range now at these temperatures. I wouldn't see any indications of excessive pressure.

I'll have to work some more loads up. Both for summer and winter, and go from there. I know the majority at 6mmbr.com swear by either Varget, 4831, or Reloader 15.

 

[1Shot]

I think you meant 4895 not 4831 for the 308. I have had great success with IMR 4895 in my 308's . Varget, RL 15, 4895, 4064, IMR 4320, AA2520, AA2495, BL-C2 all are close in the burn rate that work well in the 308 Win.

Start low and work up and listen to your rifle. It will tell you what I likes. Seating depth of bullet makes a lot of difference in pressure also. A load of powder with the bullet 30 thousands off the lands may be OK but move the bullet closer to the lands and your pressure could really spike.

 

[Desert Fox]

I suppose if I were to take the same load I was shooting over the summer and head to the range now at these temperatures. I wouldn't see any indications of excessive pressure.

I learned that the hard way. When I first developed load for my 308, I did it during winter time. I decided on BLC-2 because according to Hodgdon Manual, it has the highest velocity result of any powder for the 308. I got it to pushed the 168 grain Nosler Comp at around 2800 fps with no signs of pressure whatsoever. Here comes opening day for rifle season here in Cali, the second Saturday of August, at the peak of summer where temperature is in triple digit. Took the rifle to sight-in and the first shot sounded funny. The second one was even funnier. The third, smokes escaping behind the bolt shroud and the case welded itself on the bolt. I had a hard time removing the case that wedge itself in the extractor. When I finally got the case removed, the primer was gone and the case head balooned beyond recognition. I'll take pictures of it if I can find it. This is the first time that ever happens to me in all my years of reloading. I'm dumbfounded... actually I feel embarrased among my friends who look up to me for advice when it comes to reloading

Called Hodgdon and talked to one of their tech guy. I was told that ball powders of anykind are all temperature sensitive. I asked him if my rifle was in any danger of blowing up or if it has suffered any excessive metal stress or damage because of it. I inspected it and it seems okay. He told me that the pressure probably was in the 75-78K and it's not enough to damage the rifle. I guess he's right since my rifle still shoots well with no signs of damage.

 

[Savage Fanatic]

I had a hard time removing the case that wedge itself in the extractor.

I was beginning to notice something of that nature, I was seeing what appeared to be a a raised porting of the case that fit the profile of where the extractor hook is in the bolt face. And the extractor goove would be bent in that direction.

I wasn't having any difficulty operating the bolt or extracting the case. Just my gut feeling told me to stop.

I find it ironic that after reading over both Hodgdon's website and through their manual. Nothing is mentioned about their ball powders being tempature sensative.

 

[OldMan]

Ramshot powders are supposed to be ball powders that are not temperature sensitive. Also RL-15 is allegedly not either. I have been able to get the very best from a 300 Savage with RL-15 in both accuracy and velocity. Those are good groups you have though!

 

[Desert Fox]

I find it ironic that after reading over both Hodgdon's website and through their manual. Nothing is mentioned about their ball powders being tempature sensative.

I told the tech the same thing and he was surprised as I was that it was never mentioned in their manual either. You think an important info as these should be in the manual but it's not.

 

[corbin9191]

I find it ironic that after reading over both Hodgdon's website and through their manual. Nothing is mentioned about their ball powders being tempature sensative.

You think an important info as these should be in the manual but it's not.

+1, you would think information like that would be mandatory especially when the pressure can shoot up that high. from shooting winter loads in summer.

 

[Savage Fanatic]

I had looked at Sierra's data and surprisingly they list their max in the 44gr ball park.

I've seen several tid bits of information that are questionable.