325 wsm and 338RCM

[corbin9191]

I am wondering what peoples thoughts are on the 325 wsm and the 338 RCM, and what are your thoughts about using them and if they are a very good rifle. Thanks

 

[owenv]

I had been shooting my trusty custom k98 30-06 for most of my life. A couple of years ago I decided to try a new rifle so I bought a browning a-bolt 325wsm.

All the information I read on the caliber said that It had the velocity of the flat shooting 300wm and had the knock down power of the 338wm with out the harsh recoil of the 338.

Well let me tell you the first shot out of that rifle was quite an un welcome surprise! The browning factory recoil pad is just a piece of hard rubber so I replaced it with a limbsaver pad that now has about 1/2 the kick as before.

Last year I made about a 100 yard shot at a cow elk with the 325. Bang flop. She went down in her tranks.

 

[Big Squeeze]

I am wondering what peoples thoughts are on the 325 wsm and the 338 RCM, and what are your thoughts about using them and if they are a very good rifle. Thanks

......................................I personally don`t own either, but I do have a friend with a 325 WSM (8mm). His rifle is a Browning A-Bolt and it is a winner. However, the popularity of the 325 WSM falls far behind the more popular 270 and 300 WSM`s. Its hard to say whether or not the 325 will become obsolete someday!

I have handled and spent some time in the gun shop with a new 338 RCM Ruger M77 Hawkeye (a shorter version of the African). With its 20" tube, it is a fairly light, a very sweet handler and a fast pointing rifle. The new LC6 Ruger triggers are greatly improved and are featured in these rifles.

The RCM brass is based on the 375 Ruger case, but is shorter to provide a shorter 308 length action in a lighter shorter rifle, while maintaining the performance of the 338 Win.

There is no reason to assume or to believe that the 338 RCM cannot do in the fields that a full sized 338 Win. can do. If shorter and lighter gets it done too, then why not!

Chronograph tests show per the articles I`ve read on line, is that the 338 RCM using the 225 gr. bullet from a 20" barrel, is right on par with the 24" tubed 338 Win.

Performance wise, the 20" 338 RCM is on par with the 24" 338 Win. like the 20" 375 Ruger is on par with the 24" 375 H&H. In conversations that I have had with Hornady, their goals were to specifically develop these rounds, by offering the same high performance and doing so in lighter, shorter and handier rifles!

There is RCM ammo on the shelves (at least where I am), shell holders are available, as well as everything you need to reload the RCM.

The RCM`s and the rifles chambered for them IMO, will gain more and more popularity as time goes by. When Hornady`s R&D and Ruger work together to accomplish certain goals, there are no finer examples than the RCM`s and the .375 Ruger.

The Ruger recoil pads though, do leave alot to be desired. Too thin and too hard! I use the slip on Limbsaver on my rifles. That solves any recoil issues.

 

[onlybrowning]

I have a .325 WSM in a Browning A bolt Stainless Stalker. I love the gun, and the cartridge! I have not found any loads that will consistently shoot less than 1 MOA, but I have found many that will shoot right around 1 MOA. The kick isn't TOO bad, but I have a 1 3/8" Kick-EEZ pad on mine to make it a longer LOP. I had mine glass bedded, trigger worked (2.75lbs) and have a Leupold Vari-X III 2.5-8X36mm on it.

The best groups with 200 grain Accubonds have come between 2725-2775 fps range, which in my opinion, isn't that great. I was hoping to see significant advantages over the .300 WSM with similar weight bullets, but haven't yet. I talked myself out of using the 180 grain Ballistic Tip, as I assumed 200's in the AccuBond were a better bet. I did get good accuracy from them, but not consistently great, either.

If I did it all over again, I would have a real hard time deciding between the .300 and the .325. They each have their advantages.

 

[Charlie-NY]

I doubt that either cartridge will have much of a life-span. They are both interesting cartridges but have very limited following. 8mm cartridges have never gone anywhere in this country.

I'd much rather have a 300WSM, 338WSM, 338 Win or other popular cartridge that is in the same power category.

 

[Big Squeeze]

I doubt that either cartridge will have much of a life-span. They are both interesting cartridges but have very limited following. 8mm cartridges have never gone anywhere in this country.

I'd much rather have a 300WSM, 338WSM, 338 Win or other popular cartridge that is in the same power category.

...............True! The 8mm`s have not been to popular!......But because of Hornady and Ruger`s marketing campaigns and all the good press behind them, the 300 & 338 RCM`s, will very likely grow in popularity. I wouldn`t bet against them in the coming years.......Many also said the same thing about the .375 Ruger too!.....Well! They were dead wrong!

 

[Charlie-NY]

375 Ruger?? How many thousands of those riflers are out there? As much as I hate to say it, Ruger designated cartridges are as dead in the water as Remington's SUAM cartridges. They are all going nowhere and I wouldn't want to get stuck with one. .

As a reloader, I would not buy a rifle chambered for ANY cartridge that did not have readily available high quality brass.

"The only interesting rifles are the ones that can shoot little bug-holes. All the others are like a pile of tools in the tool box."

 

[Big Squeeze]

375 Ruger?? How many thousands of those riflers are out there? As much as I hate to say it, Ruger designated cartridges are as dead in the water as Remington's SUAM cartridges. They are all going nowhere and I wouldn't want to get stuck with one. .

As a reloader, I would not buy a rifle chambered for ANY cartridge that did not have readily available high quality brass.

"The only interesting rifles are the ones that can shoot little bug-holes. All the others are like a pile of tools in the tool box."

................Well Charlie! I have some news for ya pal! This comes from my dealer who owns 2 of the largest gun stores in So. Cal.

If this is happening here, chances are its going on elsewhere too!

The .375 Ruger is out selling all other 375`s,,,combined! He can`t keep enough of them in the Hawkeye or Alaskan in either store. I guess CZ and Howa too are making a serious mistake in chambering the 375 Ruger, a cartridge that you say is going nowhere and is dead in the water. I guess that Legacy Sports (Howa), CZ, both who are now or will chamber the 375 Ruger, Hornady`s R&D, Ruger itself, all who are major companies, kinda like disagree with ya there!

Considering this is a fairly new round, less than 2 years old, it doesn`t matter whether or not there are thousands of 375 Ruger rifles out there or not, as not enough time has been given yet,, for there to be,, thousands and thousands of rifles out there. Your point is weak!

I also hate to disappoint you again Charlie, but the un-popularity of the RSAUM`s have nothing to do with, will have nothing to do with, the success or failure of any Ruger round. Because the RSAUM`s are not popular, you may want to compare the two, but the truth is, they are totally seperate.

You know Charlie! When new cartridges and rifles for them are introduced, it does take some time for things to come together, ie., availability of reloading dies, quality brass, shellholders, and so on! Things don`t happen overnight! So you can`t determine or predict after only two years, the success or failure of any round!

However what one can do, is establish a trend up to the present time, based on sales to the public! Even the RCM`s for the newest batch of products, aren`t doing bad at all according to my dealer. He has ammo and reloading supplies for them too!

So! You may want to believe Charlie that the Ruger rounds won`t be around! But the growing sales to the shooting public, the availability of reloading supplies from distributors, factory ammo, the major companies involved, are IMO, proving your opinion to be quite contrary to not only the existing trends, but the projected future trends as well!

If anything, the RSAUM`s will fail LONG before any of the Ruger rounds will! That is of course, IF they even fail at all! If I were you, I wouldn`t bet against the Ruger rounds. If you do, your also betting against Hornady, Ruger, Legacy Sports, CZ, their marketing and advertising depts. the current sales trends, the already great press given, as well as their future predictions of sales success!!........Good luck Charlie with your predictions!

 

[Antelope_Sniper]

Corbin. Both of them look interesting. Either one would make a nice hard hitting saddle rifle, but I'm kind of with charlie on this one. I'd to see how they age. Personally I kind of have that space covered with an old classic, the 338 Win Mag. It might not be as new, or as interesting, but I don't have to worry about it going any anyplace.

 

[Greg Nolan]

Corbin

If you're a handloader you won't have to worry about popularity. Reality is (Who Cares how popular a cartrige is if it works good for you) Some of the best cartriges made were unpopular and went under. The 264 Win Mag comes to mind. 8MM Rem Mag was the start of the 7MM STW. I've always chosen obscure calibers because they excelled in what they did.
The funny thing is that the obscure calibers end up becomming more valuable because it's rare.The 325 WSM shoots flatter than the 338 but carries slightly less energy but a fair amount less kick. I owned both and I prefer the 325. Of course I have a 338 RUM that I use when I want power beyone the 325. The 325 rocks with 200 GR. Accubonds for big animals and 180 gr. Ballistic tips for deer and pigs( I got a nice 160 lb. sow this year with mine). I sold my 338 Win mag. after I got the 325 and never looked back.
I have found that most people are more sensative to recoil than conerned about that last foot pound of energy and that's where the 325 WSM excells by gaining it's energy thrue velocity rather than bullet weight in the same caliber range while still delivering a very leathel blow.
Good Hunting
Elkhunt :grin:

 

[Big Squeeze]

Corbin. Both of them look interesting. Either one would make a nice hard hitting saddle rifle, but I'm kind of with charlie on this one. I'd to see how they age. Personally I kind of have that space covered with an old classic, the 338 Win Mag. It might not be as new, or as interesting, but I don't have to worry about it going any anyplace.

...............................Seeing how newer cartridges age vs. calling them "dead in the water and not going anywhere" are two different things in my view.

Back in 1912, I`m sure there were many who wanted to wait around and see how the 375 H&H would fair, age or do. No doubt, back then in 1912 too, many had their older standbys and other proven preferences.

Same thing in 1958 when the 338 Win. Mag was introduced.

How about during the 40`s when Roy Wby. introduced his new cartridges.

The 270 Winchester back in 1925.

No doubt, some of the same attitudes existed when the 300 Winchester Magnum was introduced in 1963.

The 300 WSM came to be in 2000 with the 270 WSM to follow.

The only way to properly judge any newer round, its acceptance, or its growing popularity, is by looking at the marketplace, press releases, articles and so on. One can also look at how favorable the magazine press is towards this new round or that new round and if gun makers start chambering a newer round as well. That alone is also a great marketing indicator. Most won`t invest, re-tool and offer a fairly new round unless they have done their marketing homework based on acceptance and other criteria. The decision by CZ and Howa to chamber the .375 Ruger is a fine example. Others will follow.

Remember too, that many of the older very successful standbys, that we have all become accustomed to, WERE also introduced as new cartridges way back when. Every new cartridge of the past or otherwise, always has its detractors, in favor of the older proven favorites or what they were accustomed to. It`s no different today!

What do both RCM`s and the .375 Ruger offer? Simple!....Shorter actions, in lighter, in better handling shorter barreled rifles, that do not compromise the overall ballistic performance when compared to their longer casing, longer barreled and heavier rifle counterparts! It was those goals that Ruger and Hornady wanted to accomplish and they did,,,, just exactly that! Same performances but in shorter and lighter packages! IMO, that concept alone insures success, which BTW, is already happening in the marketplace.

I commend Ruger and Hornady`s R&D for their combined rifle and cartridge development. Their combined efforts have brought a better concept and another fine option to the hunting and shooting world!

If someone wants to wait around and see how well a round ages or how popular it becomes, then that is all well and good. Instead, I prefer to look at the entire concept as to its viability for what it is, the people or companies behind that concept, go with it and not lose out.

BTW! On another distributors site coming soon,,,,,338 RCM brass!

 

[Charlie-NY]

375 Ruger?? How many thousands of those riflers are out there? As much as I hate to say it, Ruger designated cartridges are as dead in the water as Remington's SUAM cartridges. They are all going nowhere and I wouldn't want to get stuck with one. .

As a reloader, I would not buy a rifle chambered for ANY cartridge that did not have readily available high quality brass.

"The only interesting rifles are the ones that can shoot little bug-holes. All the others are like a pile of tools in the tool box."

................Well Charlie! I have some news for ya pal! This comes from my dealer who owns 2 of the largest gun stores in So. Cal.

If this is happening here, chances are its going on elsewhere too!

The .375 Ruger is out selling all other 375`s,,,combined! He can`t keep enough of them in the Hawkeye or Alaskan in either store. I guess CZ and Howa too are making a serious mistake in chambering the 375 Ruger, a cartridge that you say is going nowhere and is dead in the water. I guess that Legacy Sports (Howa), CZ, both who are now or will chamber the 375 Ruger, Hornady`s R&D, Ruger itself, all who are major companies, kinda like disagree with ya there!

Considering this is a fairly new round, less than 2 years old, it doesn`t matter whether or not there are thousands of 375 Ruger rifles out there or not, as not enough time has been given yet,, for there to be,, thousands and thousands of rifles out there. Your point is weak!

I also hate to disappoint you again Charlie, but the un-popularity of the RSAUM`s have nothing to do with, will have nothing to do with, the success or failure of any Ruger round. Because the RSAUM`s are not popular, you may want to compare the two, but the truth is, they are totally seperate.

You know Charlie! When new cartridges and rifles for them are introduced, it does take some time for things to come together, ie., availability of reloading dies, quality brass, shellholders, and so on! Things don`t happen overnight! So you can`t determine or predict after only two years, the success or failure of any round!

However what one can do, is establish a trend up to the present time, based on sales to the public! Even the RCM`s for the newest batch of products, aren`t doing bad at all according to my dealer. He has ammo and reloading supplies for them too!

So! You may want to believe Charlie that the Ruger rounds won`t be around! But the growing sales to the shooting public, the availability of reloading supplies from distributors, factory ammo, the major companies involved, are IMO, proving your opinion to be quite contrary to not only the existing trends, but the projected future trends as well!

If anything, the RSAUM`s will fail LONG before any of the Ruger rounds will! That is of course, IF they even fail at all! If I were you, I wouldn`t bet against the Ruger rounds. If you do, your also betting against Hornady, Ruger, Legacy Sports, CZ, their marketing and advertising depts. the current sales trends, the already great press given, as well as their future predictions of sales success!!........Good luck Charlie with your predictions!

WOW! Didn't mean to get your panties tied into a knot. Chill out. According to my dealer sales are not robust and interest is low in the Ruger cartridges. Trends vary and only time will tell.

I did not compare RSUAM cartridges to Ruger designated cartridges. I merely stated that IMO opinion they were both likely to fail. I respect your opinion even if I don't necessarily agree with it. You should be able to hear others without getting so upset.

To suggest that Hornady, Ruger, Legacy, CZ couldn't invest in a cartridge that does not stand the test of time is not borne out by the history of firearms and cartridge development. Huge sums of money and untold amounts of research and development were expended on cartridges and firearms that ultimately fell out of popularity for one reason or another.

Lastly: My post was not meant to be a personal attack. I hope you did not view it that way.

 

[Big Squeeze]

375 Ruger?? How many thousands of those riflers are out there? As much as I hate to say it, Ruger designated cartridges are as dead in the water as Remington's SUAM cartridges. They are all going nowhere and I wouldn't want to get stuck with one. .

As a reloader, I would not buy a rifle chambered for ANY cartridge that did not have readily available high quality brass.

"The only interesting rifles are the ones that can shoot little bug-holes. All the others are like a pile of tools in the tool box."

................Well Charlie! I have some news for ya pal! This comes from my dealer who owns 2 of the largest gun stores in So. Cal.

If this is happening here, chances are its going on elsewhere too!

The .375 Ruger is out selling all other 375`s,,,combined! He can`t keep enough of them in the Hawkeye or Alaskan in either store. I guess CZ and Howa too are making a serious mistake in chambering the 375 Ruger, a cartridge that you say is going nowhere and is dead in the water. I guess that Legacy Sports (Howa), CZ, both who are now or will chamber the 375 Ruger, Hornady`s R&D, Ruger itself, all who are major companies, kinda like disagree with ya there!

Considering this is a fairly new round, less than 2 years old, it doesn`t matter whether or not there are thousands of 375 Ruger rifles out there or not, as not enough time has been given yet,, for there to be,, thousands and thousands of rifles out there. Your point is weak!

I also hate to disappoint you again Charlie, but the un-popularity of the RSAUM`s have nothing to do with, will have nothing to do with, the success or failure of any Ruger round. Because the RSAUM`s are not popular, you may want to compare the two, but the truth is, they are totally seperate.

You know Charlie! When new cartridges and rifles for them are introduced, it does take some time for things to come together, ie., availability of reloading dies, quality brass, shellholders, and so on! Things don`t happen overnight! So you can`t determine or predict after only two years, the success or failure of any round!

However what one can do, is establish a trend up to the present time, based on sales to the public! Even the RCM`s for the newest batch of products, aren`t doing bad at all according to my dealer. He has ammo and reloading supplies for them too!

So! You may want to believe Charlie that the Ruger rounds won`t be around! But the growing sales to the shooting public, the availability of reloading supplies from distributors, factory ammo, the major companies involved, are IMO, proving your opinion to be quite contrary to not only the existing trends, but the projected future trends as well!

If anything, the RSAUM`s will fail LONG before any of the Ruger rounds will! That is of course, IF they even fail at all! If I were you, I wouldn`t bet against the Ruger rounds. If you do, your also betting against Hornady, Ruger, Legacy Sports, CZ, their marketing and advertising depts. the current sales trends, the already great press given, as well as their future predictions of sales success!!........Good luck Charlie with your predictions!

WOW! Didn't mean to get your panties tied into a knot. Chill out. According to my dealer sales are not robust and interest is low in the Ruger cartridges. Trends vary and only time will tell.

I did not compare RSUAM cartridges to Ruger designated cartridges. I merely stated that IMO opinion they were both likely to fail. I respect your opinion even if I don't necessarily agree with it. You should be able to hear others without getting so upset.

To suggest that Hornady, Ruger, Legacy, CZ couldn't invest in a cartridge that does not stand the test of time is not borne out by the history of firearms and cartridge development. Huge sums of money and untold amounts of research and development were expended on cartridges and firearms that ultimately fell out of popularity for one reason or another.

Lastly: My post was not meant to be a personal attack. I hope you did not view it that way.

.............................Sorry to give the impression I was upset. I really was not!

No doubt in the past, a few gun makers went out on more than just a few limbs and spent large sums on cartridges that fell from grace or from popularity. It may be a little different today with a few.

In the several phone conversations I have had with Andy McCormick (Legacy Sports Marketing VP), I can assure you, that the decision to chamber the .375 Ruger in the Howa M1500 (have one on order), was not made until it was decided to see first, the sales trends of that round over a period of time. If it turned out to be successful, then and only then, would the decision be made to chamber it for the M1500.

The .375 Ruger, although a Ruger designated round is not patented by Ruger according to Legacy. It is not a proprietory round, so anyone can chamber it. The RCM`s? I do not know!

From my info as well, the decision by CZ to also go forward and chamber the .375 Ruger, was also based on the same popularity trends! So as far as Legacy and CZ were concerned, they waited and were cautious before chambering the .375 Ruger.

What sells well here in the west, may not sell good elsewhere and what sells good elsewhere, may not sell well here in the west!

Yes! Time will tell the tale!! If I were a betting man though, my money is with the Ruger/Hornady team!

PS. Last time I checked, there were no panties in my drawer, let alone any tied up in knots. Believe me, I kinda wish there were!!! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[Antelope_Sniper]

Hmm. I visit alot of gunstores, I think I've seen ONE .375 Ruger here in Colorado, and I have yet to see brass for it. Marketing VP's usually have a biased opinion. In the end, it's that market that will decide. BS, you sound like an early adaptor, and some of us are more intermediate adaptors. The 325 WSM, and 338 RCM both look like great rounds, and I hope they do well, but over the long term, I'd rather buy my brass instead of having to form it.

 

[bullet]

There is not a single Ruger 375 in the four gun shops I go to and one of those is a Gander Mountain store that has four walls full of rifles. I know because I ask the sales man if he did have one so I could look at it and he said, "No! You are the first to ask for one." Of course that could mean I was the first to ask him. Oh, he did say as we were discussing different cartridges in Ruger rifles, "we have a lot 30-06's in Rugers" and I said, "I know."

 

[YoteSmoker]

Here's my take on the two calibers. First, Winchester experimented with building a 338 wsm a few years ago but found it was not efficient velocity wise because the big bullets ate up a lot of powder room and if they went smaller to a 180 grainer, well the 300 wsm was better suited. Now, ruger is making their version of what would have been the 338 wsm, only difference being Hornady has a proprietory factory powder blend that gives it more juice than what a handloader can produce. So if you don't mind spending big bucks for proprietory factory ammo that is not or ever will be easy to find, go for it.

The 325 wsm was winchester's alternative to the shortcomings of what would have been the 338 wsm. The only problem with it is the 8mm bullet selection is right there with the 6.5 or many a little less. I got caught up in the hype of this caliber when i first moved to Colorado 4 yrs ago, until I started doing some investigating past the marketing and discovered a 338 winmag would be a better choice for reloading. P.S. I hunt mainly with 7 rem mag and 30-06 in which I have utmost confidence to get the job done. But, new sells...and thats really what it comes down to imo. Two of my favorite guns were made 28-63 years ago. They have better steel and wood than most mass produced guns today.

Now to stir things up a bit, I believe the SAUM is better than WSM and RCM but they lost out due to better marketing, timing, and the ingenious decision to call it remington's own.

 

[bullet]

Excellent points in every respect and the SAUM was a better design and all this stuff is for new sells. I have four cartridges I depend on after 30yrs of hunting and shooting and they are the 22-250, 30-06, 300Wby and .375Wby. I have used over the years the 30-06 cartridge more than any of all the cartridges I have owned and do see myself turning to it for most of my work. By the way the 30-06 has done the work on occasion that my 22-250 is used for (coyote), the 300Wby is used for (elk, back bear and large Russian boar).

 

[Big Squeeze]

Here's my take on the two calibers. First, Winchester experimented with building a 338 wsm a few years ago but found it was not efficient velocity wise because the big bullets ate up a lot of powder room and if they went smaller to a 180 grainer, well the 300 wsm was better suited. Now, ruger is making their version of what would have been the 338 wsm, only difference being Hornady has a proprietory factory powder blend that gives it more juice than what a handloader can produce. So if you don't mind spending big bucks for proprietory factory ammo that is not or ever will be easy to find, go for it.

The 325 wsm was winchester's alternative to the shortcomings of what would have been the 338 wsm. The only problem with it is the 8mm bullet selection is right there with the 6.5 or many a little less. I got caught up in the hype of this caliber when i first moved to Colorado 4 yrs ago, until I started doing some investigating past the marketing and discovered a 338 winmag would be a better choice for reloading. P.S. I hunt mainly with 7 rem mag and 30-06 in which I have utmost confidence to get the job done. But, new sells...and thats really what it comes down to imo. Two of my favorite guns were made 28-63 years ago. They have better steel and wood than most mass produced guns today.

Now to stir things up a bit, I believe the SAUM is better than WSM and RCM but they lost out due to better marketing, timing, and the ingenious decision to call it remington's own.

..........................I also believe that in time, shortly, 300-338 RCM loading data will be coming out to avoid having to buy the Hornady factory ammo. The reloader will as always, need to play around with components in order to get the best performance and accuracy from the individual rifle. That`s always the fun part! Sooner or later, IMO, all the pieces will fall in place, that offer the shooter/hunter, a 40" or so in OAL and lighter piece, with the power of the longer 338 Win..............Like anything else that is new, it needs time!

 

[Big Squeeze]

Also see..............."gunsandammo.com",,,,,,under the "ammunition" section, the article entitled "Hot Couple" by Boddington about the 338 RCM.

 

[YoteSmoker]

If I got paid to hunt safaris, I would write excellent reviews of my sponsors also.