.338-06 vs .35 Whelen vs heavy .30-06

[Guy Miner]

So... Which one and why?

Am considering either re-barreling my old Model of 1917, or having the well worn original barrel bored out to .338 or .35 cal... The current barrel is only 21" long and I like the rifle with the short barrel.

It's been a good .30-06, and I've no burning desire to change that, just considering.

Game would be mule deer & larger, vs my .25-06 which is mule deer & smaller for me.

No need to shoot much beyond 300 yards, although I'm not at all averse to taking a longer shot if so presented.

Some people build the Model of 1917's into .375 H&H mags and larger, but I want to stay with the .30-06 based case.

Thanks!

 

[Anonymous]

The .338-06 intrigues me greatly...particularly with the lighter slugs like the 180gr AB.

Nothing against the Whelen- just not my thing.

 

[Guest]

As boring as it sounds, Guy, for what you've described, I can't imagine anything working any better than a 165-180gr 30-06 load at distances out to 300yds or so. The Whelen and the 338 are going to suffer the same limitations at distance beyond 300 as the -06, so not much in the way of comparison there. Unless the "well worn original barrel" is starting to lose accuracy, I'm not sure I could change it out and feel I'd gained much of anything.

On a side note, I should never have bought that dadgum -06 in my safe. It's polluting my mind with all these ideas that a little extra velocity and a bigger case are not entirely necessary. Good thing I still have my trusty 270Wby (Mr. Hyde) to keep me straight!

 

[CatskillCrawler]

30-06
165gr @ 2925fps
180gr @ 2800fps
200gr @ 2575fps
220gr @ 2450fps

338-06
180gr @ 3000fps
200gr @ 2825fps
225gr @ 2675fps

35 Whelen
180gr @ 3000fps
200gr @ 2850fps
225gr @ 2700fps
250gr @ 2600fps
310gr @ 2300fps


The 30-06 is so versatile but the 338-06 and the 35Whelen offer more a$$ without the pushback normally found with a heavier bullet and use 10-15 less grains of powder than magnums which offer a slight performance advantage. You can't go wrong with any of these three but I lean towards the Whelen. I fight with the 338-06 vs 35Whelen conundrum in my head often.

 

[DrMike]

I'd keep it a 30-06. Much as I love both the Whelen and the 338-06, the 30-06 will care for all you have in mind, and do so with aplomb, Guy. No need to go beyond that.

 

[sask boy]

Guy, if I was going to redo your 1917 it would be to the 35 Whelen. It would become a great rifle for you with Elk and Bear.
I haven't played with the 200gr bullet yet but that 225gr AB did some real good work on Moose this year and almost out to 300 yards.

Blessings,
Dan

 

[FOTIS]

30-06 for me. A 200 gr (see SD) at 2700 fps is a flat shooting azz kicker.

 

[Guest]

I see your point, Catskill, but if you compare equal-weight-for-caliber bullets, the comparison becomes far more even. That would pit the 180 .308 against the 225 .338 and the 250 .358.

The 35 ends up with the most energy, but a full minute more drop at 300yds than the other two, which are literally on the same trajectory to the tenth of a minute out beyond 300. Energy is not dramatically different, with all three above 2k but the 35 about 300-400lbs more at 300yds. Trade a bit of drop for a bit of thump, neither of which is a huge amount. No animal is likely to notice the difference, I suspect.

I'd be happy with any of them in the woods. (But, hey, I'd be happy with any rifle in the woods....) I just think in this case, if there's not a compelling reason to rebarrel the rifle, it's $500+ spent for no real-world gain. Certainly if the rifle has to be rebarreled it makes for a different comparison, but only in terms of costs. There's still not a nickel's worth of difference in the three. And I own each, or a close copy of each (30-06, 8x57, and 350RemMag), so I can at least say I've seen them all hit game at ranges from 50-200yds, and noticed no differences at all.

 

[CatskillCrawler]

Agreed on all points Dubyam. Not sure what it is but game just seems to feel that .358 bullet a bit more in my experience.

I've lamented enough on this forum already and have finally decided to find a new donor for my Whelen project. The intended victim just shoots too good to break it down. To refresh everyone's memory, my BDL in 30-06 will remain a 30-06. DON'T SHOOT THE DONOR!!

 

[SJB358]

I'd be happy with any of them in the woods. (But, hey, I'd be happy with any rifle in the woods....) I just think in this case, if there's not a compelling reason to rebarrel the rifle, it's $500+ spent for no real-world gain. Certainly if the rifle has to be rebarreled it makes for a different comparison, but only in terms of costs. There's still not a nickel's worth of difference in the three. And I own each, or a close copy of each (30-06, 8x57, and 350RemMag), so I can at least say I've seen them all hit game at ranges from 50-200yds, and noticed no differences at all.

I am going to jump on Dub's back a little, so forgive me Dub buddy, but I did and do notice the effect of a larger slug when hitting heavier game. Maybe it is unnoticed by others, but I really feel the 338's, 35's and 375's hit harder on larger than deer game. I have smacked a few deer with the Whelen and it hammers deer, but no different than a 308/30-06/270 would, but when you step up to elk sized animals, I really feel the extra frontal area is noticed.

Again, you don't need to jump on my back Dub, as I would feel completely comfortable hunting elk with your 270 WBY as well, but I prefer heavy bullets that dig deep and leave big wound channels. Extra blood on the deck is never going to hurt anything, but the elk! Having zapped elk with the 270WSM, 300 Win Mag and 35 Whelen, I prefer the 338/35 Whelen to the other two, if you can shoot them all equally well.

If I am not mistaken, Guy has been mentioning his barrel is about whooped on his Model of 1917 30-06, so stepping up to a Whelen or 338-06 is an improvement for the game he mentioned. I have 0 troubles shooting to 400 and further with my Whelen. I have taken it to the 600 yard line and those big bullets still make it there with 1500ftlbs when using the 225 AB or the 250 PT out of my rifle. With accurate range, and a decent scope, you can hit elk sized animals.

I know, big rant, but I know Guy likes the hammer he has in his 375 and bet he would really enjoy a Whelen or 338-06.. Pretty sure he had a good friend that had a 338-06 too, so that would be a cool tribute as well...

 

[nvbroncrider]

Guy,

You need a 338-06 AI. Built in cool factor. Plus recoil is surprisingly mild. And a better bullet selection than a 35. I ran numbers many many times before I settled I got them at the house. If I remember right @ 2600 for the 338 and 225's you are a ballistic match for a Whelen at 400. I will check my numbers as I have everything written down there. From 180-250.

 

[jmad_81]

Funny, I was just going to suggest a 338-06 AI.

 

[gerry]

My signature line should tell you what I think The 30-06 with a 200 gr AccuBond at 2600-2700 fps is a pretty potent load combine that with a 220 gr Partition at 2500 fps for big animals and is a potent combination. As for the 338-06 and 35 Whelen they are pretty equal with the 338 bullets holding a bit of an edge when it comes to S.D. and B.C. with the slightly faster Whelen evens it out. At normal hunting ranges they are about the same. I like the 35 Whelen, 30-06 and 338-06 in that order, the Whelen has never let me down neither has the 30-06 either, no experience with the 338-06 but it has to be good as well.

 

[Elkman]

I have owned all three. My 338/06 was on a Remington Rand, 03, its a wonderful caliber and easy to load and shoot. I would still have it and not a Whelen if that particular rifle would have shot the same point of impact two days in a row. I did kill at least one elk with it. But that is a pretty small sample and a high shoulder shot is pretty effective with any of the medium calibers. I built my Whelen shortly after I got rid of the 03, on my first rifle a 721 Remington 06, which I still have, as a 35 Whelen it is also a wonderful cartridge and although I have never taken any game with it, I am postive its up to the task. Either are great cartridges as is the 06, but with a fresh look and a different perspective the 338/06 would get the nod if I was to do it again.

 

[JD338]

I agree with Scotty, there is no replacement for displacement.
The 35 Whelen is capable of being a 400 yd big game killer with the right load and scope.

JD338

 

[Oldtrader3]

There is no replacement for displacement. If you have to replace or rebore the barrel on the '17 anyway, why not a .338-06 or a Whelen. I am with Kurt on the .338-06 as offering more bullet selection and and little more velocity per sectional density index numbers. Didn't A-Square offer some refashioned '17's as .338-06's when they originally offered that caliber? Personally, I think that a .338-06 conversion would be the ticket for that action.

 

[onesonek]

Can't go wrong with the .30-06 imo, but you make a case (no pun intended) for any ot the other two. The coming of the ABLR would favor the .30-06 more I think, with the available capacity. The 210gr. ought to penetrate like crazy at extended range, and leave two holes no matter what. But I do have a soft spot for the .338-06 as well. H ave no arguements against the 35 Whelen however.

 

[Guest]

I can't speak to larger game than white-tails, so I'll defer to those with experience I don't have. As I said before, if you don't "have to" rebarrel, I don't think you gain much, especially when thinking about muleys and black bears. Elk may be a different animal (pun intended) but then again, plenty of elk have lost the argument with a 30-06 speaking in 180-200gr phrases. Do they go down quicker with a 35? Scotty seems to think so, and I can't argue.

As I said before, I don't think there's a ton of real-world difference between the three. If you don't need a new barrel, but rather just want one, I can't see it being worth the $500 or more for the swap, but that's just me. If the rifle needs rebarreling, it opens up the argument a bit, as you're going to spend the money, so spend it on what you want - which is ultimately what this is all about anyway. If I were facing a necessary rebarrel on a rifle in 30-06, I'd surely consider the three you've mentioned. I still think I'd probably end up with a 30-06 barrel back on that rifle, just because I'm a sentimental guy and it's been that way for so long why change it? But then again, maybe you're ready for a change. Could it be that the itch to rebarrel this thing to either .338 or .358 is why the 300WSM was pulled from sale? So if I'm changing it, I can see the arguments both ways on this, but the reality is, I'd likely go to the 338-06 for two reasons. First, as has been stated, bullet selection is better in .338cal. Second, you have a .375 sitting in the safe already. The .338 splits the difference between the 300Short and the 375H&H very nicely.

 

[Vince]

I'll be following this one as I'm considering either a .35 Whelen or .338-06 and like the potential of both calibers.

I got a buddy that shoots a Whelen, two buddies in fact, but always notice the better selection of bullets in the reloading aisle for the 338 calibers. Oh well, this is a conundrum I must ponder over coffee.

 

[SJB358]

So if I'm changing it, I can see the arguments both ways on this, but the reality is, I'd likely go to the 338-06 for two reasons. First, as has been stated, bullet selection is better in .338cal. Second, you have a .375 sitting in the safe already. The .338 splits the difference between the 300Short and the 375H&H very nicely.

Now that is where I would agree with you all the way. I don't think there is any lack of great 35 caliber hunting bullets though.

With a 200 and 225AB and a 225 and 250PT, those 4 cover alot of ground.

Add in the Swifts, Sierra's, Speers, Hornady, Northforks, etc, I can't see a 35 cal guy being so far behind a 338 guy.. I really have no dog in the fight, I have a Whelen and 338 Win Mag, which are both about the same in my eyes, ballistically.