35 Whelen Ackley 225 TSX/Hornady 250RN Quickload data?

[preacher]

Well, I decided to have my old Whelen AI barrel put on another Mod 700 Classic action and stock. My older loads were "questionable" as to their 'wisdom" in continuing their use, ha. I have never tried any 225gr bullet in this barrel ( when it was in its original Classic action/stock) So, I hear so many good things about the 225 TSx I may as well start with it. I'd like to push this Hornady 250 at 2500/2600. I need some data so I don't go over .270 Win pressures. Barrel is 22" and has a reputation of being a serial killer of wild and semi-domesticated Fauna Thanks. Build is several weeks out before I can send all the parts out.

 

[SJB358]

Jim, id probably stick to about 59-62 grains of RL15. Should easily get you into the 2750-2800 range and well within safe pressures. I’m sure there are other powders like Varget, 4064, 4320, etc but 15 has done that time and again in my plain old 35 Whelen and to date I’ve never had a load act quirky and not make good numbers.

 

[DrMike]

Cartridge          : .35 Whelen Ack. Imp.
Bullet             : .358, 225, Barnes 'TSX' 30457
Useable Case Capaci: 64.509 grain H2O = 4.188 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.340 inch = 84.84 mm
Barrel Length      : 22.0 inch = 558.8 mm

Predicted Data for Indicated Charges of the Following Powders.
Matching Maximum Pressure: 64250 psi, or 442 MPa
or a maximum loading ratio or filling of 112 %
These calculations refer to your specified settings in QuickLOAD 'Cartridge Dimensions' window.
C A U T I O N : any load listed can result in a powder charge that falls below minimum suggested
loads or exceeds maximum suggested loads as presented in current handloading manuals. Understand
that all of the listed powders can be unsuitable for the given combination of cartridge, bullet
and gun. Actual load order can vary, depending upon lot-to-lot powder and component variations.
USE ONLY FOR COMPARISON !

Powder type          Filling/Loading Ratio  Charge    Charge   Vel. Prop.Burnt P max  P muzz  B_Time
                                      %     Grains    Gramm   fps     %       psi     psi    ms
---------------------------------  -----------------------------------------------------------------
ReloadSwiss RS 60                  110.4     68.9     4.46    2875   100.0    64250    9683   1.007  ! Near Maximum !
Elcho 17                           109.6     68.4     4.43    2859    99.6    64250    9593   1.011  ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-17                 109.6     68.4     4.43    2859    99.6    64250    9593   1.011  ! Near Maximum !
PB Clermont PCL 511                111.1     70.4     4.56    2807    96.5    64250    9487   1.021  ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N550                    111.3     67.6     4.38    2804    98.2    64250    9376   1.031  ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H414                       108.6     68.3     4.43    2800    95.7    64250    9408   1.024  ! Near Maximum !
Winchester 760                     108.6     68.3     4.43    2800    95.7    64250    9408   1.024  ! Near Maximum !
ReloadSwiss RS 62                  112.0     69.8     4.52    2774    97.4    59717    9394   1.054  ! Near Maximum !
Norma 203 old                      106.2     63.8     4.14    2767    99.7    64250    8725   1.047  ! Near Maximum !
Bofors RP3                         106.2     63.8     4.14    2767    99.7    64250    8725   1.047  ! Near Maximum !
Rottweil R903                      108.6     63.9     4.14    2759    99.6    64250    8636   1.048  ! Near Maximum !
Somchem S355                       108.5     63.1     4.09    2751    99.5    64250    8630   1.046  ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 4350                      112.0     66.6     4.32    2749    97.7    59926    9132   1.066  ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H380                       105.1     63.9     4.14    2748    97.9    64250    8844   1.044  ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 4064                      106.3     61.8     4.01    2747   100.0    64250    8175   1.067  ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 2520                       98.6     61.8     4.01    2744   100.0    64250    8184   1.052  ! Near Maximum !
Lovex D073.6                       100.9     61.8     4.01    2744   100.0    64250    8184   1.052  ! Near Maximum !
Norma URP                          112.0     65.9     4.27    2737    97.6    59029    9104   1.063  ! Near Maximum !
Bofors RP19 ~approximation         112.0     65.9     4.27    2736    97.5    58972    9099   1.063  ! Near Maximum !
Ramshot Hunter                     112.0     68.8     4.46    2732    95.5    58869    9270   1.061  ! Near Maximum !
Norma 204                          112.0     68.8     4.46    2732    92.5    62956    9048   1.035  ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 2495                      100.0     58.2     3.77    2727   100.0    64250    7824   1.074  ! Near Maximum !
Lovex S065                         111.7     65.0     4.21    2719    97.0    64250    8656   1.049  ! Near Maximum !
SNPE Vectan SP 7                    99.1     63.2     4.10    2717    97.8    64250    8504   1.050  ! Near Maximum !
PB Clermont PCL 518                112.0     68.8     4.46    2709    94.7    57386    9229   1.073  ! Near Maximum !
Lovex S070                         112.0     65.9     4.27    2706    95.4    61903    8811   1.064  ! Near Maximum !
Lovex D073.5                        94.4     60.2     3.90    2705   100.0    64250    7975   1.061  ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 2460                       94.1     60.2     3.90    2705   100.0    64250    7975   1.061  ! Near Maximum !
Bofors RP7                         109.8     64.1     4.15    2701    94.8    64250    8614   1.049  ! Near Maximum !
Rottweil R907                      109.8     64.1     4.15    2701    94.8    64250    8614   1.049  ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4007 SSC                       106.4     64.2     4.16    2701    94.8    64250    8607   1.049  ! Near Maximum !

Cartridge          : .35 Whelen Ack. Imp.
Bullet             : .358, 250, Hornady SPRN 3525
Useable Case Capaci: 69.797 grain H2O = 4.532 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.340 inch = 84.84 mm
Barrel Length      : 22.0 inch = 558.8 mm

Predicted Data for Indicated Charges of the Following Powders.
Matching Maximum Pressure: 64250 psi, or 442 MPa
or a maximum loading ratio or filling of 112 %
These calculations refer to your specified settings in QuickLOAD 'Cartridge Dimensions' window.
C A U T I O N : any load listed can result in a powder charge that falls below minimum suggested
loads or exceeds maximum suggested loads as presented in current handloading manuals. Understand
that all of the listed powders can be unsuitable for the given combination of cartridge, bullet
and gun. Actual load order can vary, depending upon lot-to-lot powder and component variations.
USE ONLY FOR COMPARISON !

Powder type          Filling/Loading Ratio  Charge    Charge   Vel. Prop.Burnt P max  P muzz  B_Time
                                      %     Grains    Gramm   fps     %       psi     psi    ms
---------------------------------  -----------------------------------------------------------------
ReloadSwiss RS 60                  106.2     71.7     4.65    2796   100.0    64250   10194   1.045  ! Near Maximum !
Elcho 17                           105.4     71.1     4.61    2779   100.0    64250   10143   1.050  ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-17                 105.4     71.1     4.61    2779   100.0    64250   10143   1.050  ! Near Maximum !
ReloadSwiss RS 70                  112.0     76.8     4.97    2764    97.8    64008   10851   1.049  ! Near Maximum !
ReloadSwiss RS 62                  109.4     73.8     4.78    2754    99.5    64250   10203   1.064  ! Near Maximum !
PB Clermont PCL 518                111.1     73.8     4.78    2738    98.2    64250   10308   1.059  ! Near Maximum !
PB Clermont PCL 511                106.8     73.2     4.74    2738    98.5    64250   10267   1.060  ! Near Maximum !
Ramshot Hunter                     110.3     73.3     4.75    2737    98.5    64250   10252   1.059  ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-16                 112.0     70.2     4.55    2734    99.9    62091    9981   1.074  ! Near Maximum !
Somchem S365                       112.0     71.7     4.64    2730   100.0    61454    9643   1.077  ! Near Maximum !
Winchester 760                     104.2     70.9     4.60    2729    97.8    64250   10200   1.064  ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H414                       104.2     70.9     4.60    2729    97.8    64250   10200   1.064  ! Near Maximum !
Norma URP                          110.0     70.0     4.53    2725    99.6    64250    9916   1.066  ! Near Maximum !
Bofors RP19 ~approximation         110.0     70.0     4.54    2724    99.6    64250    9913   1.066  ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N550                    106.8     70.2     4.55    2724    99.5    64250   10043   1.072  ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 4350                      109.3     70.3     4.56    2723    99.6    64250    9888   1.079  ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-26                 112.0     77.5     5.02    2710    98.4    54864   11171   1.119
Norma 204                          108.6     72.1     4.67    2694    95.7    64250   10003   1.061  ! Near Maximum !
Bofors RP4 ~approximation          112.0     72.1     4.67    2690    95.6    63989    9993   1.063  ! Near Maximum !
Raufoss RA4                        112.0     72.1     4.67    2690    95.6    63989    9993   1.063  ! Near Maximum !
Bofors RP4 NT ~approximation       109.7     71.6     4.64    2682    97.4    64250    9773   1.072  ! Near Maximum !
Norma 203 old                      101.9     66.3     4.29    2680   100.0    64250    9218   1.089  ! Near Maximum !
Bofors RP3                         101.9     66.3     4.29    2680   100.0    64250    9218   1.089  ! Near Maximum !
Rottweil R903                      104.2     66.3     4.30    2673   100.0    64250    9138   1.089  ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H380                       101.0     66.4     4.30    2673    99.3    64250    9495   1.083  ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon Hybrid 100V                112.0     69.7     4.52    2673   100.0    62424    9119   1.077  ! Near Maximum !
Lovex S070                         108.9     69.3     4.49    2669    97.9    64250    9645   1.084  ! Near Maximum !
ADI AR 2209                        112.0     71.7     4.64    2667    95.1    61105   10062   1.079  ! Near Maximum !
Somchem S355                       104.1     65.5     4.25    2666   100.0    64250    9144   1.087  ! Near Maximum !
Norma MRP                          112.0     75.2     4.87    2660    95.6    54298   10826   1.129
Winchester Supreme 780             112.0     76.0     4.92    2657    95.4    63626    9676   1.068  ! Near Maximum !
Lovex D073.6                        96.7     64.1     4.15    2650   100.0    64250    8626   1.094  ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 2520                       94.5     64.1     4.15    2650   100.0    64250    8626   1.094  ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 4064                      101.8     64.1     4.15    2650   100.0    64250    8628   1.110  ! Near Maximum !
Lovex S065                         107.4     67.6     4.38    2650    98.8    64250    9339   1.086  ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-19                 112.0     72.1     4.67    2648    94.9    58779   10093   1.101  ! Near Maximum !
SNPE Vectan SP 7                    95.3     65.8     4.26    2644    99.2    64250    9140   1.087  ! Near Maximum !
Bofors RP7                         105.8     66.8     4.33    2639    97.1    64250    9380   1.084  ! Near Maximum !
Rottweil R907                      105.8     66.8     4.33    2639    97.1    64250    9380   1.084  ! Near Maximum !
Rottweil R904                      112.0     71.0     4.60    2638    94.2    62756    9586   1.079  ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4007 SSC                       102.5     66.9     4.33    2638    97.1    64250    9373   1.084  ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4831                           112.0     69.0     4.47    2627    99.1    57664    9542   1.126  ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 2495                       95.8     60.3     3.91    2625   100.0    64250    8276   1.118  ! Near Maximum !
Somchem S361                       111.2     76.2     4.94    2622    93.2    64250    9384   1.079  ! Near Maximum !
Bofors RP14 ~approximation         112.0     72.1     4.67    2621    94.5    57400    9944   1.113  ! Near Maximum !
IMR 7828 SSC                       112.0     74.0     4.80    2621    91.7    56258   10293   1.116  ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 2460                       90.3     62.5     4.05    2617   100.0    64250    8408   1.100  ! Near Maximum !
Lovex D073.5                        90.6     62.5     4.05    2617   100.0    64250    8408   1.100  ! Near Maximum !
Somchem S385                       112.0     72.8     4.72    2609    95.9    57532    9712   1.127  ! Near Maximum !
Rottweil R901                       95.7     58.5     3.79    2603   100.0    64250    8249   1.106  ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N560                    112.0     73.6     4.77    2589    90.3    51988   10458   1.156
ADI AR 2213                        112.0     72.8     4.72    2588    91.2    55064   10084   1.128
Hodgdon H4831 SC                   112.0     72.8     4.72    2585    91.5    57750    9621   1.112  ! Near Maximum !

 

[preacher]

Hey Doc...the 250 data looks like it is 358 Norma mag data! Somethings up with QL or you hit the wrong digit, ha. I'm not sure whats up, can you double check this for me?

 

[DrMike]

Looks like what the system is generating.

Cartridge          : .35 Whelen Ack. Imp.
Bullet             : .358, 250, Hornady SPRN 3525
Useable Case Capaci: 69.797 grain H2O = 4.532 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.340 inch = 84.84 mm
Barrel Length      : 22.0 inch = 558.8 mm
Powder             : Alliant Reloder-17

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 1.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step    Fill. Charge   Vel.  Energy   Pmax   Pmuz  Prop.Burnt B_Time
 %       %    Grains   fps   ft.lbs    psi    psi      %        ms

-10.0   95    63.99   2496    3458   45131   9565     98.7    1.232
-09.0   96    64.70   2525    3538   46726   9648     98.9    1.212
-08.0   97    65.41   2553    3619   48382   9726     99.2    1.193
-07.0   98    66.12   2582    3700   50102   9798     99.4    1.174
-06.0   99    66.83   2610    3782   51890   9865     99.6    1.155
-05.0  100    67.55   2638    3864   53749   9925     99.7    1.137
-04.0  101    68.26   2667    3947   55683   9981     99.9    1.119  ! Near Maximum !
-03.0  102    68.97   2695    4031   57696  10030     99.9    1.101  ! Near Maximum !
-02.0  103    69.68   2723    4115   59790  10072    100.0    1.084  ! Near Maximum !
-01.0  104    70.39   2751    4200   61970  10109    100.0    1.067  ! Near Maximum !
+00.0  105    71.10   2779    4286   64243  10143    100.0    1.050  ! Near Maximum !
+01.0  106    71.81   2806    4372   66611  10175    100.0    1.034  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+02.0  107    72.52   2834    4459   69082  10206    100.0    1.018  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+03.0  109    73.23   2862    4546   71659  10237    100.0    1.002  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+04.0  110    73.94   2889    4633   74349  10266    100.0    0.986  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+05.0  111    74.66   2916    4722   77148  10294    100.0    0.971  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba    105    71.10   2889    4632   78519   9680    100.0    0.973  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba    105    71.10   2610    3781   51925  10368     97.2    1.152

Cartridge          : .35 Whelen Ack. Imp.
Bullet             : .358, 225, Barnes 'TSX' 30457
Useable Case Capaci: 64.509 grain H2O = 4.188 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.340 inch = 84.84 mm
Barrel Length      : 22.0 inch = 558.8 mm
Powder             : Alliant Reloder-17

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 1.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step    Fill. Charge   Vel.  Energy   Pmax   Pmuz  Prop.Burnt B_Time
 %       %    Grains   fps   ft.lbs    psi    psi      %        ms

-10.0   99    61.47   2552    3254   44913   8849     96.4    1.183
-09.0  100    62.15   2582    3331   46482   8945     96.9    1.166
-08.0  101    62.84   2612    3409   48116   9035     97.3    1.149
-07.0  102    63.52   2643    3489   49816   9122     97.7    1.132
-06.0  103    64.20   2673    3569   51588   9204     98.1    1.115
-05.0  104    64.89   2703    3651   53434   9281     98.4    1.098
-04.0  105    65.57   2733    3733   55360   9353     98.7    1.080  ! Near Maximum !
-03.0  106    66.25   2764    3816   57370   9419     99.0    1.063  ! Near Maximum !
-02.0  107    66.93   2794    3901   59466   9481     99.2    1.046  ! Near Maximum !
-01.0  108    67.62   2824    3986   61654   9536     99.4    1.029  ! Near Maximum !
+00.0  110    68.30   2855    4072   63943   9586     99.6    1.013  ! Near Maximum !
+01.0  111    68.98   2885    4159   66335   9631     99.7    0.997  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+02.0  112    69.67   2915    4246   68838   9669     99.9    0.981  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+03.0  113    70.35   2946    4335   71458   9701     99.9    0.965  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+04.0  114    71.03   2976    4424   74203   9727    100.0    0.950  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+05.0  115    71.72   3006    4515   77082   9746    100.0    0.934  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba    110    68.30   2987    4457   77454   9133    100.0    0.938  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba    110    68.30   2662    3541   52190   9487     94.3    1.111

The 358 Norma Mag is considerably more lively.

[color=#FF0000]Cartridge          : .358 Norma Mag.
Bullet             : .358, 225, Barnes 'TSX' 30457
Useable Case Capaci: 75.757 grain H2O = 4.919 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.346 inch = 84.99 mm
Barrel Length      : 22.0 inch = 558.8 mm
Powder             : Alliant Reloder-17

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 1.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step    Fill. Charge   Vel.  Energy   Pmax   Pmuz  Prop.Burnt B_Time
 %       %    Grains   fps   ft.lbs    psi    psi      %        ms

-10.0   93    68.40   2642    3487   44612   9844     97.9    1.189
-09.0   94    69.16   2672    3566   46104   9940     98.2    1.172
-08.0   95    69.92   2702    3646   47651  10032     98.5    1.156
-07.0   96    70.68   2731    3727   49258  10118     98.8    1.140
-06.0   98    71.44   2761    3809   50926  10199     99.1    1.123
-05.0   99    72.20   2791    3891   52657  10274     99.3    1.107
-04.0  100    72.96   2821    3975   54458  10344     99.5    1.090  ! Near Maximum !
-03.0  101    73.72   2850    4059   56328  10409     99.7    1.073  ! Near Maximum !
-02.0  102    74.48   2880    4143   58272  10467     99.8    1.057  ! Near Maximum !
-01.0  103    75.24   2909    4229   60294  10520     99.9    1.040  ! Near Maximum !
+00.0  104    76.00   2939    4315   62398  10567    100.0    1.024  ! Near Maximum !
+01.0  105    76.76   2968    4401   64587  10607    100.0    1.009  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+02.0  106    77.52   2997    4489   66868  10642    100.0    0.993  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+03.0  107    78.28   3027    4577   69244  10674    100.0    0.978  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+04.0  108    79.04   3056    4665   71720  10705    100.0    0.963  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+05.0  109    79.80   3085    4754   74301  10736    100.0    0.949  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba    104    76.00   3063    4686   75753  10088    100.0    0.949  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba    104    76.00   2754    3789   50840  10619     96.0    1.122[/color]

 

[350JR]

Not to hijack this but I've got questions on the results.

A What is the overall capacity for this case? I've read (more times than I recall but a lot) where the AI of the Whelen didn't increase capacity much at all. These numbers put the total capacity around 76 grains by my calculation.

B. The trim length of a 35W is 2.454", the HRN is 1.100 inches long.

2.484 plus 1.1 is 3.584. Seated to 3.34 for OAL, that's a seating depth of .244"

Correct?

Not criticizing. Just making sure I understand. I'm well aware the seating depth of larger bores has more "bullet to neck" surface area than smaller bores at similar depths but curious as to what is acceptable (opinion wise) on the 35 bore.

God Bless
Steve

 

[5shot]

Not much gain in capacity at all, but in custom rifles you can get more velocity as the Max Pressure is above what SAAMI limits the 35 Whelen to.

 

[truck driver]

In my 35 Whelen AI the H2O cap for the fired case avg is 76.13grs, for the cases fired in the Remington 700 Classic I sold it was 72.77grs.
So you have a difference of 3.36grs.
The 40 degree shoulder along with the less tapper wall case design allows for higher pressure along with free bore.
As Preacher Jim found out in his first experiments with the 35 Whelen AI you can reach upwards to 90kpsi before you see pressure.
As for your seating depths I think you are looking at SAAMI standards and the 35 Whelen AI is a wildcat so the SAAMI standards don't apply. Each rifle and chamber is different and will react differently and allow for different seating AOL with custom cut chambers.

 

[DrMike]

Bear in mind, Jim, that you requested that these projections reflect a maximum chamber pressure to match the 270 Win. That is 65K psi, which is considerably more than the 58K psi that would normally apply to the 35 W AI. In upping this pressure, you gained around 100 fps velocity. At the lower pressure, things look a little different.

Cartridge          : .35 Whelen Ack. Imp.
Bullet             : .358, 225, Barnes 'TSX' 30457
Useable Case Capaci: 64.501 grain H2O = 4.188 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.340 inch = 84.84 mm
Barrel Length      : 22.0 inch = 558.8 mm
Powder             : Alliant Reloder-17

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 1.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step    Fill. Charge   Vel.  Energy   Pmax   Pmuz  Prop.Burnt B_Time
 %       %    Grains   fps   ft.lbs    psi    psi      %        ms

-10.0   95    59.40   2461    3026   40528   8536     94.9    1.236
-09.0   96    60.06   2490    3097   41874   8640     95.4    1.219
-08.0   97    60.72   2519    3170   43271   8740     95.9    1.202
-07.0   98    61.38   2548    3244   44722   8836     96.4    1.185
-06.0   99    62.04   2577    3318   46231   8929     96.8    1.168
-05.0  101    62.70   2606    3394   47776   9018     97.2    1.152
-04.0  102    63.36   2636    3471   49427   9102     97.6    1.136  ! Near Maximum !
-03.0  103    64.02   2665    3548   51123   9182     98.0    1.120  ! Near Maximum !
-02.0  104    64.68   2694    3627   52887   9258     98.3    1.103  ! Near Maximum !
-01.0  105    65.34   2724    3706   54724   9329     98.6    1.086  ! Near Maximum !
+00.0  106    66.00   2753    3786   56636   9395     98.9    1.069  ! Near Maximum !
+01.0  107    66.66   2782    3867   58631   9456     99.1    1.052  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+02.0  108    67.32   2811    3949   60710   9512     99.3    1.036  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+03.0  109    67.98   2841    4032   62879   9563     99.5    1.020  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+04.0  110    68.64   2870    4115   65140   9609     99.7    1.005  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+05.0  111    69.30   2899    4200   67506   9649     99.8    0.989  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba    106    66.00   2893    4181   68385   9034    100.0    0.988  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba    106    66.00   2557    3267   46394   9114     92.2    1.168

 

[350JR]

In my 35 Whelen AI the H2O cap for the fired case avg is 76.13grs, for the cases fired in the Remington 700 Classic I sold it was 72.77grs.
So you have a difference of 3.36grs.
The 40 degree shoulder along with the less tapper wall case design allows for higher pressure along with free bore.
As Preacher Jim found out in his first experiments with the 35 Whelen AI you can reach upwards to 90kpsi before you see pressure.
As for your seating depths I think you are looking at SAAMI standards and the 35 Whelen AI is a wildcat so the SAAMI standards don't apply. Each rifle and chamber is different and will react differently and allow for different seating AOL with custom cut chambers.

For seating depth, I am using the parameters listed in the QL data above.
I realize ALL cartridges can vary a few grains rifle chamber to rifle chamber and brass mfg to brass mfg. I've seen capacity claims that are 5 grains different (but in reality, that isnt tons)

I am just curious as to the total grains used by QL above. Nothing else. Not the guesstimated pressure nor velocity, just the capacity.
God Bless

 

[350JR]

Another question. Maybe I'm missing something here. 58K, DrMike? Where is that from please?

SAAMI shows 62k for the 35 Whelen by itself. ( In their tests, in their chambers, etc etc for an average. Not carved in stone universally.)

https://saami.org/wp-content/uploads/20 ... df#page=13

Is this an old SAAMI page?

(PS. To those maybe not aware. No offense meant......the fastest way to find anything is use the

CTRL (plus) F function. A box will appear on the top right corner (computer monitor. No clue about smartphones). Type in Whelen then arrow down to which part you wish to view)

God Bless

 

[DrMike]

The maximum chamber pressure is provided in QL when calling up the 35 W-AI. It is the same pressure listed for the 35 W. It is lower than the SAAMI pressure listed in the sheets found on the SAAMI page, which may reflect the fact that the system is developed in Europe and favours the CIP measurements. Just a suggestion.

 

[350JR]

Thanks, Mike. I was not previously aware of the origination being non-US.

Helps. God Bless
Steve

 

[preacher]

Thanks guys. This barrel is also a Remington Classic factory barrel, has a 1/16" twist, and a looong throat, ha. I can seat them way out and increase powder capacity a tad more.
Hey doc, I understand now how that 65K increase looked different. To catch up some readers, I used my original loads with no issues, for 20yrs, but I got curious one day and had the QL numbers ran. Wow, even though I "saw" no "regular" pressure signs ( real or perceived) aka stiff bolt lift, sticky extraction, flat primers, I was running too hot "for my situation". That turns out to be that I have only one good eye, my shooting eye. Yes, I am a (some would say Fat) "one eyed Preacher", ha. So, I don't want be behind a case that "someday" might blow pieces of cornea destroying metal/hot gas , glasses or not. Just not a risk I want to run anymore is all. But, if I am going to run "Improved" I want at least 100fps more than standard, and I have to go to the outer limits to do that. But only for certain bullets, I like Old School heavy round noses in this thing too. They do "thump". Off to Church, its a workday for me!

 

[DrMike]

Oh, yeah, Jim. Iced over here today. I told my wife when she cautioned me not to slip on the ice, "Well, I'd just be another fallen preacher!" :shock: With my crooked spine (truck wreck that got me issued out of the USMC many years ago), I count myself a "crooked preacher." :roll: Yeah, I'm off to work, as well.

I'm not terribly uncomfortable raising maximum chamber pressure on most bottle neck cartridges to near 65K psi. Brass doesn't yield to pressure until around 80K psi, and modern steel can handle considerably more. This assumes a rifle in good working order that has a solid lock-up, of course. However, it is not uncommon that the best accuracy comes well below that pressure limit. For most of my work, I don't believe the extra hundred fps can justify the increased pressure. Just my ruminations.

Consequently, at the rate we're going, you're going to be on the hook for an entire presentation of song and dance for my funeral. Trust the Muses Clio and Terpsichore have inspired you for that day. With the luck I have, it will be the Muses Melpomene and Thalia. Oh, well, it'll make for an interesting day. :mrgreen:

 

[gbflyer]

I’ve read of a lot of Alaska folk getting warp speeds out of the standard Whelen and 250’s. In fact the Speer published load is downright frightening. I’ve never been able to get there, in fact I can barely get to published (Barnes and Hornady) velocities without pressure that scares me. I have 2 of them. The first I reamed with a SAAMI chamber, then I sent the reamer in to shorten the throat for the other one. Both have 14 twists, which could play into my lack of speed.

My cousin used one I gave him on a bull elk this year. At 100 yards the 225 TTSX leaving at 2600 was a complete pass through right behind the front shoulder with a 1” exit wound and the bull dropped right there. There wasn’t a mouthful of bloodshot. Very, very impressed with that big bullet.

 

[DrMike]

The Whelen does pack a punch that is surprising for those just introduced to the cartridge.

 

[SJB358]

The Whelen does pack a punch that is surprising for those just introduced to the cartridge.

Amen...

2600 for 250’s

2700-2800 for 225’s

I’ve never found it hard to get there with most powders like H4895, 4064, H322, RL15 and similar. It usually shoots real well too..

 

[preacher]

The Whelen does pack a punch that is surprising for those just introduced to the cartridge.

It sure impressed me with my first hunt with that 250x/2600 from the AI. I only recovered two ( lengthwise shots on zebra & kudu) from 5 elk sized PG. They all, except that phlegmatic hartebeest physically 'shuddered" when hit. Later in life I had the opportunity to try out the 200X/35 WAI and it mimicked the 250X! I also used the 300/338-340S/.375 H&H on many more of the same size game. Up to about 350yds, I could not tell any difference between the Magnums and the 250/200X from my old AI. Now, granted, with the right load/bullet I could have killed everything with a smaller round, for comparison. But there is something "satisfying to my soul" when I thump a heavy animal with a Medium caliber, ha. I've had two 9.3x62s and to me the 35 WAI 250 and for sure 200 shoots 'flatter" than the 270/286gr bullets. (I never had any 250s in the 9.3, its a great round though) I packed some leverguns in 444s and 45-70s but never got to kill anything with them, though I have with their "children", the 44 mag & 45 Colt in lever guns. Under 100yds they are sweet thumpers on deer/hogs also, ha. So, having the good barrel available made this return to the WAI a very easy choice. To get another 338WM "like I wanted", I'd have had to pour money into a rifle that was still a gamble, that Mod 77, and I just can't do that. As for new, I just can't make myself like a Savage or similar, good shooters or not and I still LOVE the 338/340 and even the old .375, but am very happy with the 35 caliber. Though I saw no trace of a Brown/Polar/Griz nor cape buffalo when I last hunted with the 310 Woodleigh...I was "ready for them" ( or Bigfoot, after all I was on the U.P. MI)

 

[preacher]

When I had the original Mod 700/35 WAI made up, late 1995, I sent it to Gary Stiles for rechambering to the AI. I had a Decelerator Pad put on , a Leupold 1.5x5, and the trigger adjusted. I fireformed 100rds with the Speer 220FN and then worked up a load with the Barnes 250X and 53.5gr 2015br and BR2 primers. I killed the five animals mentioned above. I shot some Impala, Blesbuk, with a friends 300WM 180xbt ( my hard headed Afrikaner friend wanted me to use it for the first shot on the zebra I ended up having to follow up/finish with the Whelen, ha) I returned with a future "plan"to go back and take a cull Buffalo and a lioness, so I foolishly, it turned out, had the Mod 700 converted/rebarreled to 416 Taylor...with a 20" barrel and very noisy brake. It was awful! I traded the rifle off and began a 4 yr odyssey of 30/338/375/458/416 Magnums along with 6mm/6.5s and more.
Used the 5.5# MatchGrade Arms in 340W in 1998 on another trip for Plains Game ( buff/lion hunt fell through) it was too light/kicked the guts out of a Leupold & a Zeiss. Upon return I had it rebarreled to 338WM, killed a cow elk with it then gave the rifle to my Pastor. But in 2000, I found another Whelen Classic, new, and had it reamed to the Ackley and all tricked out.
I had it Cryogenically treated, coated with a baked on moly based coating. Decelerator pad, same 1.5x5 the NECG rear, Shilen trigger and a better brake put on ( I went through a neck fusion) I also "broke it in" by fireforming another 20 rds. I then worked up a load with the 200X. I tried every powder in Barnes' "first manual" w/o good speed/accuracy. The last one listed was H322. 58gr was listed Max for the standard 35 Whelen. I got 2970fps and bughole groups! Took it to SA in 2002 and shot a zebra ( 250yds) and a Black Wildebeast ( 347yds) No recovered bullets! Its been one of those barrels that will just wad up the bullets/loads it likes ( including the 250PT, 250 Speer and the 310 Woodleigh).
I had that rifle converted to 358 Norma Mag and then got raped by Obammacare. It was sold. But we kept this 35 WAI barrel and brake. I found a stainless actioned 30-06 Mod 700 that someone had put in a Mod 700 Classic stock (wood) so I have it on layaway. My old Smith told me to just use Brownell's Alumahide spray on epoxy paint for the action to match the color. So, I have a neat history with the 35 Whelen Ackley. I like the "looks" of the 40 deg shoulder and have had no problems with it sticking a bolt or blowing primers. However, I will stick to QL 64K limits this time....I'm "getting there". All in due time...…