35 Whelen or 35 Whelen AI

[grry10]

I'm thinking about a rifle build in 35 Whelen or 35 Whelen Ackley Improved. The donor rifle is a Ruger #1AB in 30-06 that has never been fired. The 1AB is equipped with a 22" barrel. If I have it rebored is it worth doing the AI in a 22" barrel. My son's Remington 760 in 35 Whelen performs well with it's 22" barrel, so know that it will work for the Whelen but how would the AI perform? If I go with a new barrel for sure it would be the in the AI version with a 24-26".

My 338-06 Ack Imp was a rebore but the the donor was equipped with a known good barrel. Since the 1AB has never been fired the barrel is an unknown. My feeling are that if you try to rebore a bad barrel, unless it is just worn, you are going to end up with a bad barrel.

I'm interested in getting your thoughts on the 35 Whelen vs 35 Whelen Ackley Improved in a 22" barrel and reboring vs rebarrel. I have another 1AB in 7x57 and love the balance and carry aspect of it with it's 22" barrel, so that is why I'm even considering a rebore.

 

[JD338]

I have had a M700 Classic in 35 Whelen since 1988 when it was introduced. It has a 22" 1:16 twist barrel and has been more than adequate for my needs. I'm pushing a 250 gr PT at 2575 fps which is plenty of HP. I also have different rifles to reach for if I need more power and/or range.
I have looked at the AI but never pursued it as ~100 fps gain isn't worth the trouble of fire forming cases plus destroying the collectors value of the rifle.

JD338

 

[gerry]

Both would be good. You just need to decide if the slightly more velocity of the AI chamber is worth it to you. I believe at equal pressures it's less than 40 fps difference, possibly less. There's not much shoulder to blow out.

 

[truck driver]

I guess I'm the only one here that still has the AI version of the 35 Whelen so I will try to help you but one thing to remember is mine is based on a M70 controlled round push feed bolt that Win toyed with back in the 80's.
The original chamber was 30-06 so it was perfect for JES to rebore and chamber.
I did a lot of reading about P.O. Ackley and his designs which caused me to have the work done.
Previously owning a Rem 700 Classic in 35 Whelen with a 22" barrel may have pushed me a little towards the improved since I wasn't happy with the velocity being slower than advertised in the manuals and had trouble reaching them with reloading causing higher pressures trying to get there.
Maybe the logical thing to have done would have been to rechamber the 700 but I didn't want to mess with the value of that rifle and under normal conditions it would shoot great with everything you shot through it.
If you go with the rebore I would have the chamber cut with the equivalent of a Weatherby free bore which will not create accuracy problems. It will keep you from popping primers since there is very little load data out there for it and you will have to work up loads using the 35 Whelen data. I also used the longest magazine box and follower Win made for the M70 so I could play with OAL of the cartridge to take advantage of the extra capacity of the fire formed cases.
I was very lucky to have a friend who knew how to tweak quick load to get the most out of the Ackley and not create problems for myself.
I think it was Guy Miner who said I was getting 375 H&H muzzle energy out of my 225gr Nosler Partition load.
There is a bunch of my post on the 35AI in the reloading forum you can look at if you choose too.
And Yes I would do it again if I wanted one.

 

[TXbaldhunter]

Those Ruger 1's have really gone up in value.Since yours is unfired,it would really carry a primo price,most likely $1500.00 or more.I'd think twice before changing it from it's original chambering.As for a nice handling 35 Whelen,have you looked at the CVA Scouts in the 35 Whelen?I bought one recently for $360.00.I was impressed with the purchase.A few things I liked about the rifle is the trigger is great.2.5lbs and breaks like glass.It has a heavy fluted 22" stainless barrel and comes with a muzzle break too.I didn't shoot the rifle without the break,but I tell you,the recoil is surprisingly next to nothing.Maybe like a .243.I haven't shot mine too much,just mainly some test loads,but I was getting a little over 2900fps with 200gr bullets and around 2600fps with a 250gr bullet.I haven't shot it enough to tune my loads,but it's shooting around an inch.The stock,made of plastic,but fits ok.Boyd's has wood replacements for them.Overall,the rifle is well build and hard to beat for the price.

 

[gerry]

Good point on the value of the No. 1 going up. There is the option of selling and finding a No.1 in 35 Whelen. They did make them on the 1A and 1S versions.
@truck driver I think there's a few guys on here with the AI chamber.

 

[noslerpartition]

Get a new barrel and keep the original in case you want to sell it one day?

 

[Johnly]

I have a 35 Whelen, 35 Whelen AI, a 375 Whelen AI, and a 9.3x63mm all on Mauser actions.
Of those, the 9.3 is my go to rifle.
Just sayin...
John

 

[KinleyWater]

I have a 35 Whelen, 35 Whelen AI, a 375 Whelen AI, and a 9.3x63mm all on Mauser actions.
Of those, the 9.3 is my go to rifle.
Just sayin...
John

Nobody's perfect

grry,
I only have the standard 35 Whelen. It is accurate with everything I feed it (within reason) and has thus far emphatically killed everything I've connected with. If you want an AI, get one, but, get it because you want an AI. I've never owned one, and never shot one, but I can't imagine it would kill any better than what I have. I confess, however, that there may be an argument if you wanted to shoot very heavy bullets out of it. Woodleigh of Australia, for example, makes (or at least made) 275 and 310 grain bullets in 358 cal. I could see a use for a bit more power for those - you'd also want a faster twist than the 1:16 the 700 Classic comes with.

 

[truck driver]

Good point on the value of the No. 1 going up. There is the option of selling and finding a No.1 in 35 Whelen. They did make them on the 1A and 1S versions.
@truck driver I think there's a few guys on here with the AI chamber.

I stand corrected, never hear about them so I just thought I was the only one with a 35AI on this forum.

 

[RL338]

I would try finding another donor. #1s have a large following that you could sell it and fund a nice donor and have money left over.
35 AI would give you the unique advantage.

 

[PJGunner]

I would dearly love to have a Ruger $1 in .35 Whelen, preferably in the "S" configuration.

My thoughts on the .35 Whelen vs the AI version is it's not worth the cost of conversion. Take into consideration that Remington decided the "safe" pressure level for the cartridge.. Basically the same as for the.280 Remington or 30-06. Remington wanted the to not be problems in their semi-auto and pump guns and the emasculated two great cartridges, I have rifles chambered to all three cartridges (.280, 30-06 and .35 Whelen) and load them closer to the 65KPSI of some more moderncartridges. I easily run he standard Whelen to levels very close to the AI version without any problems. Look at it this way. If Remington could run cartridges to the pressure levels of the various magnum rounds, why can't the Whelen, or .280 for that matter not be run at those same pressure levels? Even if one loads then35WAI to those same 65KPSI levels the gain is only about 100 or so FPS. Not worth it to me.. I do run my M98 Oberndorf Mauser to those levels but have noted that one does have to hang back sightly in the Remington and Ruger guns for the most part; at least in the ones I own. The difference is only about one gran most of the time. A 225 gr. Brnes TSX at 2710 FPS is an elk slayer'd dream. The .280 another rifle on a 1909 Argentine DWM Mauser will do 2910 FPS with the160 r. Speer Grand Slams. What's not to like????
Paul B.

 

[truck driver]

Just a little more info on the P.O. Ackley improved version is that P.O. designed the cartridge as a high pressure round blowing up hundreds of rifles to find which action would/could take the pressure. Roy Weatherby took lots of notes on what P.O. was doing and talked with him about his cartridge designs. There are some who believe Roy even copied some of P.O's designs and made them his own doing minor changes since P.O. didn't copy write any of his designs.
Boy I can feel the heat coming from my last comment.
I settled on 64Kpsi for my load info my friend worked up using quick load which is well with in what a M70 can handle. I also used the idea of a long free bore chamber to hold pressures down with my loads.
I had J.E.S. rebore and cut a 4 grove rifling with a 1-12 twist to be able to use both light and heavy bullets.
Like has been said in earlier post, if you want a 35WAI go for it and have a barrel made for the #1. I would use a 26" barrel so I could ring everything I could get out of the P.O. cartridge since it will be shorter than a bolt action and you won't lose any handling with it being too long like a bolt action.
Oh and this is just my opinion and thoughts.

 

[SJB358]

There isn't any way I'd AI it myself, knowing what I can get out of the regular old Whelen. The increase is very marginal and when loaded to the same pressures, you're looking at 50 FPS advantage. If you're getting 100-150 FPS more out of an 35 AI'ed, you're increasing pressure that much more above the standard.

 

[JD338]

If you want the cool factor plus more HP that what the 35 Whelen has to offer, look at the 358 Norma Mag or go all the way and get a 375 H&H Mag barrel. Either one should check all the boxes for you.

JD338

 

[wvbuckbuster]

With my limited experience with the 35 Whelen I'd just stay with it for convivence of necking up 30-06 brass, unless you really like extra steps in your reloading. What little increase in muzzle velocity is marginal. Just me. Dan.

 

[Blkram]

A tough question (to AI, or not to AI) that only you can answer in the end.
Most of the pros and cons have already been stated above.
If you are not concerned about conserving the originality of your firearm and not worried that the barrel stamp won't match the new chambering (although Cerakoting it will negate this issue), than go the rebore route. If you are, then sell your current rifle and acquire an original No.1 in 35 Whelen.

You did mention the balance of the rifle, and removing some metal may affect its balance as you bore it out to the larger caliber. While it may not be a lot of weight, it may be enough to affect balance. Perhaps someone who has had a rebore completed can speak to how it affected the balance of their firearm.
I currently own two No.1's at the moment.
The No.1S in 218 Bee has a 26" barrel while the No.1A in 257 Roberts has a 22" barrel. The rifle with the shorter barrel weighs 8 lbs 5 oz scoped and has a better balance than the longer barreled rifle, which weighs 9 lbs 8 oz scoped.
In a 35 Whelen (or AI version) it may benefit from the extra weight for felt recoil.

I did consider going the AI route when I built my 338-06, but in the end chose to stay with the original version for simplicity. And in the end I am happier for it...as it turns out my barrel produces velocities similar to that which those who have the AI version are getting their rifles, and it took me far less time to find decent handloads that performed well in my rifle, than they did in their wildcats.

I did go the AI route with a 250 Savage build many years ago...still have yet to finalize load development for it, while I am having fun shooting regular factory ammo in it, and in my regular 250 Savage rifles. (Hope to get to this soon, as I am preparing to spend more time reloading again.) But this is just me, so take it for what it's worth...about 2 cents! LOL