35 whelen suggestions

[dlove]

mississippi muzzleloader


at this point, I've spent almost as much on load development as I spent on the rifle. I've tried varget, 8208xbr, and W748. I've shot cor lokt, AccuBond, and hornady SP all in 200 grain. best load with varget was 2711 with an SD of 5 that shot a 1.2" group. best with 8208 was 2764 with an SD of 5.6 that shot into .8". so far, 748 hasn't shot anything that looks like a group. I just ordered some 225gr AccuBond to play with.

hornady factory loads chronoed at 2886 with an SD of 20.

should I be ok with 2700fps and MOA'ish accuracy?

what speeds are you guys getting in 22" whelens?

thanks,

dan

 

[nvbroncrider]

Looks like you may have a load with that 8208. Scotty will be on to throw some suggestions as will the rest of the Whelen lovers who reside here.

 

[SJB358]

Hey buddy, first off, your loads look pretty good right here. I can't add much to the 200 grain bullets in the Whelen as all I have ever shot were 225's and 250's. In my Whelen, RL15 is king with the 225's and 250's. It is very accurate and very fast. It really puts the Whelen in the same class as the 338WM to be honest. I know you probably don't wanna invest in another pound of powder, but RL15 works very well in my Whelen and a few others on here.

I wouldn't worry a single bit with that 200 AB at 2700 FPS. That is a whole lotta smash and from all I can tell, it would pretty flat shooting as well.

I run right around 2730 or so with the 225 AB and 2650 with a 250 PT in my rifle. It is a 24" barrel and a bolt gun. I am not sure how much you can push the H&R rifle, but I don't think there is a need with the speeds you are getting.

This is what RL15 looks like with a 22" barrel, roughly. Not written in stone, but a good guide.

Cartridge          : .35 Whelen
Bullet             : .358, 200, Nosler AccuBond 54425
Useable Case Capaci: 61.701 grain H2O = 4.006 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.340 inch = 84.84 mm
Barrel Length      : 22.0 inch = 558.8 mm
Powder             : Alliant Reloder-15

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 1.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step    Fill. Charge   Vel.  Energy   Pmax   Pmuz  Prop.Burnt B_Time
 %       %    Grains   fps   ft.lbs    psi    psi      %        ms

-10.0   94    53.75   2489    2751   39500   7558     91.3    1.215
-09.0   96    54.35   2517    2814   40814   7656     91.9    1.197
-08.0   97    54.94   2546    2878   42171   7752     92.4    1.179
-07.0   98    55.54   2574    2942   43575   7846     92.9    1.161
-06.0   99    56.14   2602    3007   45029   7938     93.4    1.144
-05.0  100    56.73   2631    3073   46533   8027     93.9    1.127
-04.0  101    57.33   2659    3140   48091   8115     94.3    1.110
-03.0  102    57.93   2687    3207   49705   8200     94.8    1.094  ! Near Maximum !
-02.0  103    58.53   2716    3275   51376   8283     95.2    1.078  ! Near Maximum !
-01.0  104    59.12   2744    3344   53107   8363     95.6    1.062  ! Near Maximum !
+00.0  105    59.72   2772    3413   54902   8441     96.0    1.047  ! Near Maximum !
+01.0  106    60.32   2801    3484   56762   8516     96.4    1.032  ! Near Maximum !
+02.0  107    60.91   2829    3555   58691   8589     96.7    1.017  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+03.0  108    61.51   2858    3626   60691   8659     97.1    1.002  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+04.0  109    62.11   2886    3699   62767   8725     97.4    0.987  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+05.0  110    62.71   2914    3772   64921   8789     97.7    0.973  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba    105    59.72   2914    3772   66094   8432     99.6    0.969  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba    105    59.72   2588    2975   44192   8046     88.7    1.148

Here is an overall look.

Cartridge          : .35 Whelen
Bullet             : .358, 200, Nosler AccuBond 54425
Useable Case Capaci: 61.701 grain H2O = 4.006 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.340 inch = 84.84 mm
Barrel Length      : 22.0 inch = 558.8 mm

Predicted Data for Indicated Charges of the Following Powders.
Matching Maximum Pressure: 58000 psi, or 399 MPa
or a maximum loading ratio or filling of 110 %
These calculations refer to your specified settings in QuickLOAD 'Cartridge Dimensions' window.
C A U T I O N : any load listed can result in a powder charge that falls below minimum suggested
loads or exceeds maximum suggested loads as presented in current handloading manuals. Understand
that all of the listed powders can be unsuitable for the given combination of cartridge, bullet
and gun. Actual load order can vary, depending upon lot-to-lot powder and component variations.
USE ONLY FOR COMPARISON !

87 loads produced a Loading Ratio below user-defined minimum of 90%. These powders have been skipped.
Powder type          Filling/Loading Ratio  Charge    Charge   Vel. Prop.Burnt P max  P muzz  B_Time
                                      %     Grains    Gramm   fps     %       psi     psi    ms
---------------------------------  -----------------------------------------------------------------
IMR 3031                           107.4     57.1     3.70    2846   100.0    58000    7999   1.013  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Ramshot BigGame                    109.7     64.4     4.18    2843    96.9    58000    8738   1.008  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
SNPE Vectan SP 11                  109.9     64.5     4.18    2842    96.9    58000    8724   1.008  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
IMR 4895                           106.0     60.3     3.91    2836    97.3    58000    8682   1.020  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Winchester 748                      98.6     60.3     3.91    2835    99.1    58000    8346   1.012  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Alliant Reloder-17                 107.5     64.2     4.16    2834    96.2    58000    8804   1.004  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Hodgdon BL-C2                      101.2     62.8     4.07    2831    98.3    58000    8566   1.019  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Norma 203 old                      109.4     62.9     4.08    2829    98.1    58000    8560   1.026  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Norma 203B                         107.3     61.1     3.96    2823    97.2    58000    8566   1.021  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Raufoss RA11                       106.7     60.7     3.93    2820    96.6    58000    8565   1.022  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Bofors RP11 ~approximation         106.7     60.7     3.93    2820    96.6    58000    8565   1.022  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Alliant Reloder-15                 106.7     60.7     3.93    2820    96.6    58000    8565   1.022  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Accurate 2495                      107.4     57.8     3.74    2819   100.0    58000    7893   1.049  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Lovex D073.6                       104.0     60.9     3.95    2815    99.5    58000    8163   1.029  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Accurate 2520                      104.0     60.9     3.95    2815    99.5    58000    8163   1.029  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Alliant AR-Comp                    102.2     56.3     3.65    2812   100.0    58000    7359   1.015  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Bofors RP11 TZ ~approximation      101.7     56.2     3.64    2811   100.0    58000    7359   1.015  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Hodgdon H4895                      102.8     58.4     3.79    2808    97.8    58000    8391   1.025  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
ADI AR 2206H                       103.0     58.6     3.80    2800    97.2    58000    8368   1.026  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Hodgdon H380                       107.8     62.7     4.06    2795    94.9    58000    8478   1.026  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
IMR 4320                           108.2     60.6     3.92    2794    96.8    58000    8225   1.011  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
PB Clermont PCL 507                 99.9     59.3     3.84    2793    98.4    58000    8180   1.023  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
SNPE Vectan SP 9                   103.6     60.9     3.94    2793    97.1    58000    8291   1.021  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Somchem S321                        98.1     60.0     3.89    2793    98.6    58000    8218   1.028  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Winchester 760                     110.0     66.2     4.29    2793    91.0    55580    8781   1.028  ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H414                       110.0     66.2     4.29    2793    91.0    55580    8781   1.028  ! Near Maximum !
Ramshot TAC                         97.2     59.2     3.83    2793    98.4    58000    8168   1.023  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Hodgdon H335                        93.5     58.0     3.76    2791    99.7    58000    7932   1.022  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Vihtavuori N540                    106.0     61.0     3.95    2790    99.7    58000    8050   1.024  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Norma 202                          103.8     58.1     3.76    2790    99.8    58000    7928   1.027  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Nitrochemie A/S 0300                90.4     52.8     3.42    2787   100.0    58000    7412   1.025  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Lovex S062                         107.7     59.6     3.86    2787    98.4    58000    8132   1.032  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
SNPE Vectan SP 10                   93.0     56.5     3.66    2786    99.7    58000    7892   1.026  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
ADI AR 2219                         93.1     54.7     3.54    2786   100.0    58000    7693   1.019  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Hodgdon H322                        99.1     54.7     3.54    2786   100.0    58000    7693   1.019  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
PB Clermont PCL 508 (PCL223)        93.0     56.6     3.67    2785    99.7    58000    7881   1.026  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
PB Clermont PCL 516                103.6     62.8     4.07    2783    94.8    58000    8340   1.021  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Vihtavuori N530                     98.8     56.5     3.66    2782    98.4    58000    8065   1.024  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Somchem S341                       101.8     62.3     4.04    2777    96.9    58000    8069   1.021  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Ramshot X-Terminator                91.1     55.5     3.60    2776    99.9    58000    7711   1.028  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Norma 201                           99.7     57.9     3.75    2773    98.4    58000    8064   1.038  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
IMR 8208 XBR                       101.0     57.4     3.72    2772    98.3    58000    7972   1.025  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Somchem S355                       110.0     61.2     3.97    2771    97.2    55552    8326   1.046  ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon VARGET                     108.6     59.8     3.87    2769    96.3    58000    8136   1.020  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
ADI AR 2208                        108.2     59.8     3.87    2769    96.3    58000    8136   1.020  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Lovex D073.5                        96.9     59.1     3.83    2768    99.0    58000    7880   1.041  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Accurate 2460                       96.9     59.1     3.83    2768    99.0    58000    7880   1.041  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Rottweil R903                      110.0     61.9     4.01    2768    97.2    54409    8351   1.055  ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4064                           109.5     58.9     3.81    2765    96.6    58000    8024   1.024  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Vihtavuori N140                    105.9     59.1     3.83    2765    99.9    58000    7615   1.025  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Rottweil R902                      106.1     58.2     3.77    2764    98.3    58000    7960   1.039  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
SNPE Vectan SP 7                   101.5     62.0     4.01    2762    94.7    58000    8141   1.032  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Rottweil R901                      102.1     55.2     3.57    2762    99.7    58000    7777   1.049  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
SF033 fl, russ. 5,45x39             93.5     54.4     3.52    2760   100.0    58000    7042   1.039  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Lovex D073.4                        95.1     58.0     3.76    2754    98.9    58000    7736   1.038  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Accurate 2230                       95.1     58.0     3.76    2754    98.9    58000    7736   1.038  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Alliant Reloder-12                  98.6     57.2     3.71    2753   100.0    58000    7487   1.026  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Alliant Reloder-10x                 96.4     51.7     3.35    2749   100.0    58000    7196   1.038  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Bofors RP7 NT ~approximation       108.2     62.1     4.02    2740    91.9    58000    8030   1.016  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
ADI AR 2210                         93.6     55.0     3.56    2739    98.9    58000    7643   1.030  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Accurate 2015                       98.1     54.0     3.50    2738   100.0    58000    7145   1.043  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Bofors RP2 NT ~approximation       101.8     57.5     3.72    2737    97.5    58000    7734   1.027  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
IMR 4007 SSC                       108.6     62.6     4.06    2733    90.8    58000    8091   1.034  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
ADI BM2                             91.5     55.4     3.59    2730    98.9    58000    7571   1.032  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Hodgdon Benchmark                   99.5     55.7     3.61    2729    98.8    58000    7580   1.032  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Vihtavuori N550                    110.0     63.9     4.14    2728    93.3    50100    8659   1.078  ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 2200                       90.8     52.4     3.40    2728    99.4    58000    7432   1.029  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Lovex S060                         102.3     56.6     3.67    2722    97.2    58000    7657   1.031  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Bofors RP3 NT ~approximation       110.0     62.2     4.03    2722    93.1    56509    7940   1.031  ! Near Maximum !
Somchem S335                       103.1     57.4     3.72    2720    99.9    58000    7286   1.041  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
ADI AR 2206                        101.5     57.1     3.70    2714    97.6    58000    7563   1.031  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Vihtavuori N133                    105.1     54.7     3.54    2709   100.0    58000    6895   1.031  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
IMR 4198                            95.4     48.7     3.15    2703   100.0    58000    6648   1.025  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Accurate 4064                      110.0     58.5     3.79    2700    99.3    49367    8053   1.122  ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N135                    110.0     56.7     3.68    2698   100.0    51958    7371   1.076  ! Near Maximum !
Bofors RP1 NT ~approximation        91.4     50.4     3.27    2698    99.8    58000    7021   1.026  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Vihtavuori N130                     98.9     52.6     3.41    2695   100.0    58000    6783   1.039  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
ADI AR 2207                         90.8     48.3     3.13    2695   100.0    58000    6590   1.041  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Alliant Reloder- 7                  90.1     49.6     3.21    2691   100.0    58000    6717   1.044  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

I think your 8208 load looks great really. I think you could hunt about anything with that load at 2700 and never miss a thing. Heck a 30-06 only throws a 180 out at 2700 or so, and nobody has ever claimed it was weak..

 

[DrMike]

Two hundred grain bullet at 2700 fps? That'd work for me. That is what I get with my 350 RM, and it works magic on elk and black bear, I know for a certainty. I wouldn't be hesitant to use it on about any game in my AO.

 

[dlove]

thanks for the replies. I need to get my hands on that quick load software. that would be fun to play with.

I guess 2700 seems slow because the hornady loads were the first thing I tested. they set the bar pretty high for velocity.

I'll put RL15 on my list of wanted powders. I've never shot any of the aliant rifle powders because their pistol powder(that I tried) was so dirty. with the super low BCs of the flat base bullets, its like they throw out a parachute after 200 yards. I'm just OCD to the extreme and I don't want to leave any stone unturned. I have 30 rounds loaded with IMR4895. it was already on the shelf for the .308. I just need a break from this 100 degree heat to get to the range. I can only shoot about 30 rounds from this thing before I start to get twitchy. it may be in my head but the 8208 loads kick like a horse. my scope also has a heavy german #4 reticle that may be hurting my groups a bit.

 

[PJGunner]

"should I be ok with 2700fps and MOA'ish accuracy?"

Yes, I would say, "More than." :wink: Remember, the .35 Whelen isn't a varmint rifle although some think they are. :lol: My rifle loved the 225 gr. barnes TSX over 60.4 gr. of RL15. (CAUTION: over maximum in any book I've seen but is safe in my rifle. Do work up to that level.)
Velocity is 2710 FPS and groups run from .50" to .75" depending on how well I'm shooting on any particular day. The load is one elk killing son of a gun. 8)
Just my personal opinion but I do think the .35 Whelen is held back by the ammo companies and those who publish the loading manuals. Probably due to some weaker rifles and possibly low number Springfields that were converted to .35 Whelen. I was once offered an 1895 Winchester that had been rebored to .35 Whelen and it was so loose it rattled. I think I'd be afraid to shoot even the somewhat weak ammo Remington and Federal put out in that gun.
I don't shoot 200 gr. bullets in my .35 Whelens so I can't be of much help on that side of the fence. All I can say about that barnes TSX bullet is it should/will shoot clean through a cow elk from anus to appetite. What more could you want? :wink:
Paul B.
edited to put a decimal point in the right place.

 

[OU812]

I do not own a Whelen but do have a 350 rem mag and found IMR-3031 to be a very accurate with great velocity with 200 grain bullets. Might be worth a look see.


Bill

 

[RiverRider]

My Whelen (24") spits out the 225-grain AccuBond at about 2675 fps, using a case-full of Re15. Accuracy is MOA or better. I can't think of a thing I couldn't hunt in all of North America with that rifle, but I'd switch to Partitions if I ever get a chance to hunt a really big, bad, mean bear.

 

[gerry]

2764 fps with a 200 gr IMR 8208 sounds quite good, which bullets have been shooting the best for you? A group of .8" is very good too. I have a gun just like yours it clocked about 100 fps slower than the tight chambered custom gun I currently have, we will see how the new Whelen stacks up. My NEF shoots just as well as yours, points well and has a surprisingly good trigger on it.

 

[dlove]

the IMR 4895 shoots a lot like varget: same speeds 1.2" or so groups.

the cor lokt have been the best bullet but for whatever reason all my loads have been better through RP brass vs hornady. federal 210m primers have ben the best I've tried. I haven't shot the hornady SP with 8208 and RP brass yet. .....next trip

the loads I fired today were primed with CCI BR2. I had 6 FTF. I have never had a FTF with this rifle before today. maybe I got a bad batch.

 

[Ridgerunner665]

Based on your other thread with the head separations...I'm willing to bet good money that you're sizing the brass too much. This causes excessive headspace...

This is something I did myself recently...in my 30-06...it caused light primer strikes.

I'm using Lee dies, I backed the sizing die out so that it just barely touches the ram on the press...the FTF went away.

35 Whelen can be finicky with headspace anyway...just a few thousandths of an inch is all the difference there is between too much headspace and not enough.

 

[dlove]

I thought about that. I have it set so it cams with a light snap when the sizing die hits the ram. thats how I have set my hornady dies. I am using redding for the whelen. it could be a little different. with my bolt guns I usually set the die just deep enough for the bolt to start closing smoothly. this single barrel isn't quite that easy.

I've only put about 200 rounds through this gun. ...never had a ftf until today. I didn't change my die settings.

 

[Ridgerunner665]

If you're using reloaded brass...it work hardens with each firing...that can make it behave differently.

Back the die out about .005" and see what happens.

 

[Ridgerunner665]

I've never loaded for a single shot...but i would think neck sizing would be the best bet anyway ( likely better brass life and better accuracy)

 

[JD338]

dlove,

RL 15 is a great powder in the 35 Whelen. I am getting 2584 fps with the 250 gr PT in my M700 Classic 22" barrel.

Since you are shooting a single shot, you could do a partial full length resize (neck size). This will fit your chamber better and work the brass less for extended case life.

Get some RL 15. :wink:

JD338

 

[SJB358]

Jim nailed it, I would look for .002" or shoulder setback with your cases. It may have to go a little further or maybe less, depending on how well the case chambers in your single shot. Annealing is pretty easy as well and like RR665 said, the brass gets work hardened after a bunch of firings and resizings, so it is likely to split in the neck area if not annealed.

I would give a look to the 225 AB or PT's or the Sierra 225. Better BC and downrange ballistics. Any of those bullets in the 2600 range would be pretty slick and overtake the 200's in energy pretty quick. Accuracy might be better as well. Good luck.

 

[dlove]

I have a batch of 225 accubonds on the way. I'll back the sizing die out to make it barely touch the plate. ...and I'll hit bps in the morning and get a bottle of RL15. if work will stay out of my way, I may have a batch of RL15 loads on the range by 14:00.

 

[sask boy]

It sounds like you have a plan coming together :wink:
A range report and photos are always good

Blessings,
Dan

 

[Ridgerunner665]

I've never owned a 35 Whelen...but I've got nearly 30 years experience with its ballistic twin, the 350 Remington Magnum.

225 grains is THE bullet weight for 35 caliber IMO...Reloder 15 is a good suggestion too.

 

[SJB358]

I have a batch of 225 accubonds on the way. I'll back the sizing die out to make it barely touch the plate. ...and I'll hit bps in the morning and get a bottle of RL15. if work will stay out of my way, I may have a batch of RL15 loads on the range by 14:00.

I hope it works as well for you as it does for a few of us. With the 225's and 250's, I haven't found anything yet to make me wanna try anything else. Can't wait to hear your results.