35 whelen

[JD338]

Mike,

After shooting 24 rounds of 338 RUM with 250 gr PT's at 3024 fps, almost everything is a pussycat. :mrgreen:

JD338

 

[PJGunner]

Interesting thread about one of my favorite cartridges even though, so far I've only shot one anial with it. Long story but I have three rifles chambered to the Whelen. A Ruger M77RS tang safety, a Remington 700 Classic and a custom rifle based on an Oberndorf Mauser.
Load work up has been with the 225 gr. Barnes TSX, more on that lter, the 250 gr. Speer Hot Core and 250 gr. Hornady bullets, bith spitzer and round nose. I plan more workup with Nosler's as time permits. Ihave some 225 gr. Partitions and Ballistic tips in that weight as well.
The Ruger is good for about 1.25" average, the Remington just about one inch average, those two using the cup and core bullets. More work up needed. The Mauser was one inche with the Speer's and Hornady's but the real surprise was that 225 gr. TSX. Half inch to three-quarter inch groups are the norm. Frankly, with the normal velocities reached deoending on the bullet used, I really don't see the need for a premium bullet and normally wouldn't choose one, at least for that cartridge. However, two years ago I did a Mule Deer hunt in the Kaibab National Forest and hunters in that area were asked to voluntarily use an all copper bullet because of it being part of the condor flyway. The state even gave hunters two free boxes of the proper ammo or a box of bullets for handloaders to work up their load. Nobody loaded an all copper bullet for the Whelen so I went with the freebie bullets. I didn't get a deer that year and did not draw a tag last year nor this year. I haven't even drawn for elk in six years. Never have drawn for antelope in Arizona in the 33 years I've been here. Did a landowner hunt in New Mexico for antelope last year and a guided cow elk hunt this year in New Mexico. Both hunts were successful. I did use a .270 for the antelope hunt just for the record but I used those loads made up for that Kaibab hunt with the Whelen. I've been hunting since I was 11 years old, most deer and a true rifle loony from the start. I've shot animals, der and elk with just about everything from a .243 to the .375 H&H and to be perfectly honest, when that bullet from the Whelen hit that elk, well I never saw an animal hit the ground so fast in my life. She actually bounced, she hit so hard. That elk was literally smashed to the ground. The Mauser finally got a chance to kill something besides paper and it did it up just fine. Even my guide was impressed, so much so he wanted to buy that rifle from me. I said, "No."
Paul B.

 

[JD338]

PJGunner,

Welcome to the forum, glad to have you here with us.
The 35 Whelen is capable of some amazing accuracy with the right loads. I have had excellent results with IMR 4064, AA2015 and RL 15.

I have Az blood in me, what part of AZ are you located?

JD338

 

[BK]

Man, 275's in the Whelen.. That would be a sweetheart of a bear killer! Scotty

I'm pretty sure that a 250 Partition would work just as well as that Barnes. I bought them just after reading a bunch of Elmer Keith books and Ross Seyfried magazine articles. Old Elmer liked those heavy bullets!

 

[SJB358]

PJgunner, welcome to the boards! Great story! Your in great Whelen company here!

BK, I totally agree about the 250gr PT. It is going to be my next serious load work to do with the Whelen. So far it has shot everything really well. It absolutely loves the 250gr Speer Hot Core, so I don't think I will have too much trouble making the 250gr PT work just as well, since it is basically a ballistic copy of the Speer. Honestly, I can't see the Speer giving bad performance either, but if I can get some 2nds, I would like to upgrade! Scotty

 

[PJGunner]

Man, 275's in the Whelen.. That would be a sweetheart of a bear killer! Scotty

I'm pretty sure that a 250 Partition would work just as well as that Barnes. I bought them just after reading a bunch of Elmer Keith books and Ross Seyfried magazine articles. Old Elmer liked those heavy bullets!

I have no doubt they would. The only reason I used what i did was because it was what I had loadedand ready to go. When I booked the hunt, it was a very last minute thing. I called the outfitter and was on the road two days later. For a hurry up slap together trip, it all turned out quite well. I said to the wife, "How'd you like to go to Raton new Mexico?" She asked why and I said, "I'm gonna see if Tim has any openings left on his cow elk hunts." She said, "OK, lets go." So we went. :grin:
When I finish this, I'll be off to my shed to prep som 30-06 brass I converted to .35 Whelen for cast bullet use. Probably, for every jacketed bullet I shoot, I'll shoot 50 to 100 cast bullets. Been doing it since I was 16 and that's one hell of a long time ago. FWIW, I'm 72 now. :shock: Never thoughtI'd last this long. :roll:
Paul B.

 

[SJB358]

Thats awesome Paul! Great to have you on board here. We can always use some more casting experience also! Scotty

 

[BK]

Yeah, I always wanted to try cast bullets in my Whelen, but I have too many other projects for my extremely limited time at home (mostly I'm home long enough to buy a new gun!).

 

[JD338]

You can always buy cast lead bullets......

JD338

 

[BK]

I know, but I have an unfired .257 Weatherby, an unfired 7-08, an unfired .358, an unfired .223 Vanguard, an unfired 6.5 Creedmoor, an unfired .300 Weatherby, and an unfired .220 Swift. I have a .300 Savage 99 I've never shot, a .30-30 I've never shot, and a .270 on loan from my uncle. I've got a decent load for my Whelen (as long as my supply of Grand Slams holds out) and I think the .358 might be a better cast bullet cartridge anyway. Three days home every three weeks, I actually would rather spend it with my son. And at 17 months, he's a little young for the range (even though he does have his first AR lower).

 

[PJGunner]

BK. What weight Grand Slms are you loading? I picked up 200 of the 250 gr. GS at a gun show along with a bunch of Federal nickel plated brass. I'm always on he loo out for 250 gr. Remington ammo as well. Seems like the only thing some of the local stores carry are the 200 gr. load, if any. Might I trouble you for your load with the Grand Slams?

Regarding cast bullets, I have a bunch made up, at least they're cast. I spent a goodly part of this afternoon lubing and sizing for several diffrent bullets. I have the Lyman #3589 and a clone I had custom made with a minor change. It was part of group buy over on Cast Boolits. Then there is the RCBS 35-200-FN and a special order RCBS 35-250-SP, and the Lyman numbers 358315 in hollow point form and 358318. I'll most likely use the 200 g. bullets in one of my .358 Win. and the heavier bullets in the .35 Whelen. I'll be honest, I'm a cast bullet junkie. :shock: :wink: I've mostly worked with .30 caliber and handgun bullets and working with the two .35's is a fairly new project for me. At least it keeps me out of the bars at night. :lol:
Paul B.

 

[SJB358]

Sounds like you have a safe full of rifles to keep you busy for quite awhile! The Whelen is a pretty easy cartridge and really shoots with alot of bullets. Can't wait to hear how your fleet of rifles shoot BK. I know I would be chomping at the bit to get them out, but then I know how demanding a 17 month is too!

I think my casting will be for the 45-70 and 44 Mag. I have enough Jacketed stuff for the others and I don't really plink with them anyhow. Scotty

 

[JD338]

Stay with the hard cast bullets, less mess to clean up after.
The 35 Whelen would be a good one with hard cast bullets.

JD338

 

[SJB358]

I would like to try 280-300gr Hard Cast out of the Whelen. With big FN's those would be some cool bear loads! Scotty

 

[BK]

PJ, it was IMR3031 that I loaded with the 250gr Grand Slams. I think when I shoot 'em up I'll try 225 Partitions and ABs with RL15... I hear that's what all the cool kids run.

 

[PJGunner]

I would like to try 280-300gr Hard Cast out of the Whelen. With big FN's those would be some cool bear loads! Scotty

I dunno who mke bullets that heavy any more although I believe NEI might have a couple. My heaviest cast bullets are the Ly,am #3589, new number #358009, but sadly discontinued andLyman refuses to make anymore despite numerous requests. :x I have one of those molds plus a clone made by David Mos from a group buy on Cast Boolits. The only real data I can find to load that one is from an article by Paco Kelly and frankly, some of his loads re a bit scarey. LBT might be able to make you one. You'd best have at least a 1 in 14" twist for 280 gr. bullets and better yet a 1 in 12" twist for 300 gr. bullets. My alloy cast #3589 t 270 gr. which is close enough, I guess. We'll just have to see. I'll be shooting them in my Ruger M77 but I'm afaid that 1 in 16" twost may not stabilize those bullets. Maybe yes, maybe no. Only a session at the range will tell for sure.
The Lyman #359 has a fairly bluff round nose and the custom clone which we call the #3589I, the "I" for improved as we added a small flat spot on the nose for a bit more hitting power. I have the first edition Hornady loading manual and it has data for their long discontinued 275 gr. round nose. FWIW, I have 35 of those bullets that I'm saving to shoot something big. Now if I can only winth the lottery so I can do the hunt. :roll:
I think a bullet in the weight range you're looking at could be a good deal if your barrel has a fast enough twist to make it work. They don't work so well when they hit going sidewise.
Paul B.

 

[SJB358]

Paul, thanks for the heads up. You are right, I forgot I have a Remington with a 1-16 barrel on it. I think my Browning BLR 358 is faster though. Scotty

 

[JD338]

These bullets from Bear Tooth are designed for the 35 Whelen and I would think a 1:16 twist would stabilize them.
https://beartoothbullets.com/bulletselect/index.htm

JD338

 

[SJB358]

Man, that 250gr FN looks like a cool bullet! I wished you had not shown me that! It would actually be pretty cool in my 358 Win I think? Scotty

 

[DrMike]

Whoa! Hold on! I haven't gone to Beartooth Bullets for too long. They have a 210 grain bullet designed for the 356! And a 250 grain for the 35 Whelen! Now, to figure out how to get them up to Canada.