35 Whelen.

[ShadeTree]

Didn't want to throw the other 35 whelen thread off track since that thread is full of good looking rifles with excellent groups and deserves to go on as is.

But a Whelen question. I am pretty sure I'm gonna end up re-barreling my springfield to a whelen, but have been contemplating whether I should go AI or not?

I'm not considering the AI route to necessarily gain speed, what the whelen produces in it's original form is more than enough for me. But when I look at the cartridge dimensions and drawings it seems to me that with the 06's shallow 17 degree shoulder and the outside neck diameter of .388 in 35 whelen, it doesn't let you with much of a shoulder wall to headspace against. The AI with it's sharp 40 degree shoulder takes care of that. Am I out in left field on this and thinking about something that is a non issue?

 

[Thebear_78]

The whelen works just fine as is. I really don’t see any real world benefits from running a 35 AI vs the standard whelen.

I’ve had several whelens over the years from a semi auto rem 750, ruger factory 77, and Winchester 70 that was rebarreled. I never had any headspace problems.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[OU812]

Tis my understanding from those in the know on the 35 whelen AI is once brass is formed trimming becomes null and void.

 

[Thebear_78]

There is no shortage of brass available for the whelen, Seems a poor trade off considering the whelens sloped shoulders allows for very slick feeding, a little trimming is an easy trade off. 40° shoulders can be tricky on occasion, especially when a rifle is designed for a different cartridge.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[OU812]

There is no shortage of brass available for the whelen, Seems a poor trade off considering the whelens sloped shoulders allows for very slick feeding, a little trimming is an easy trade off. 40° shoulders can be tricky on occasion, especially when a rifle is designed for a different cartridge.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I tend to agree but only the end user can say if going AI is or was worth doing.

 

[ShadeTree]

A few cartridges really seem to gain a whole new motor getting the Ackley treatment, but I can't really say I seen a lot of that with looking at the 35 AI, but like I said my main concern was the short and shallow shoulder on the standard whelen but if that's a non issue, I probably wont bother.

1 thing I'll say is that to date that springfield is the smoothest, slickest chambering rifle, bar none I've owned or operated to date, including two mausers I have that it copies. I polished up the follower and keep the action clean, but the feed rails must be timed perfect on this particular gun with the right amount of spring tension underneath. I can chamber a round up out of the magazine with just my thumb on the bolt in one smooth motion. Bout as neat to chamber a round in that gun as it is making it go bang. I'm hoping if I go to a whelen none of that changes.

 

[Thebear_78]

There has to be 1000:1 whelens to WHELEN AIs our there. If it was a problem I’m betting that ratio would be a touch different.

If your really concerned about the small shoulder look to the 338/06 or 8mm/06.

Honestly if whoever screws it together knows what their doing the 35 whelen is fine.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[ShadeTree]

Nope not really concerned about it Bear, just wondering if there was any reason to be. Didn't know if that was any kind of a gremlin or fault with the whelen. I think you answered my question.

 

[Anonymous]

Yeah- the whole AI thing is a bit lost on me in the Whelen...modern gunpowder is likely to make a much bigger improvement.

I have to agree with Bear...if the shoulder was an issue, it'd been fixed already. Back in the days when the Whelen was a pure wildcat, there were all kinds of chamber dimensions out there and I can imagine some were problematic. A standard chamber dimension has cleared that up.

 

[truck driver]

Yep everyone here knows I own a 35Whelen/AI and before that a factory 35Whelen.
I prefer my 35Whelen/AI. All the nay sayers have never owned one or probably shot and loaded for one and will let it go at that.
If you want to know more you will have to PM me or talk to Preacher.

 

[Thebear_78]

Not trying to piss in your 35 whelen AI chereos, I’m the last person to talk someone out of doing something different, for no other reason than they want to. I’m just answering the OP question. If not to gain speed is the AI needed for proper headspace? It’s simple not an issue with standard whelen and headspace.

I’ve actually shot two whelen AIs. A buddy of mine got the bug to have one built. He built it on a stainless m70 all weather that was originally a 270. I can’t remember the barrel manufacture but I remember it was A 12 twist and had it fluted.

While nothing wrong with it, he never got the performance out of it he expected and he didn’t like fire forming. He had been using 280 brass and necking up and cream of wheat fireforming.

He eventually pulled the barrel and stuck it on a magnum rem 700 action and rechambered to 358 STA. I bought the m70 action and barrel and put it back together, my wife uses it as a 270 now.

The second one was a rechambered Remington 700 It was a 14 twist factory Remington barrel. He found there wasn’t enough bump in performance with the lighter bullets to be worth the effort of forming brass and his barrel wouldn’t stabilize the heavier bullets where the extra capacity could have made a bigger difference. That rifle ended up being rebarreled back to standard 35 whelen with a 1-12 twist.

While I’m sure the whelen AI is a fine cartridge for those who use it, I have seen it’s just not worth the extra work. If your looking for more performance it’s easier to go with a bigger cartridge like the 358 Norma, 358 STA, or 35-375 ruger.

If you don’t necessarily need that level of performance the standard 35 whelen is great in its own right, easy to load for, and very effective within its limitations.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[gbflyer]

No Ackley experience.

I’ve read about, but not experienced, new Whelen brass having short headspace issues resulting in the firing pin driving the cartridge forward instead of popping the cap. This could have been an ammo issue as reported or someone had too long of headspace in the chamber. After reading about this, I was also concerned. Although it’s been my policy to use factory ammo only for a rifle I use when something could bite back, I’ve made an exception to that with the Whelen and carry once - fired reloads. Just in case.

The standard Whelen feeds like nothing I’ve ever seen. The chamber just swallows them. Very similar to 375H&H in that regard, but even better. If the AI case changed that, it would lose all its allure in my book. If it didn’t, then I say go for it.

 

[truck driver]

Not offended by anyone's comments just don't plan on or intend to get into a pissing contest with those who know more then I do.
Everyone is entitled to their opinion :grin:

 

[PJGunner]

Well, the OP's question is the shoulder of the standard .35 Whelen a problem? I feed three rifles chambered to the .35 Whelen and the shoulder/headspace problem has never been a problem. He important step is setting up the sizing die to not push the shoulder back and more than necessary for easy chambering. The only rifle that gave any hint of headspacing problems was the Ruger M77 Tang safety. An extra sizing die set up to properly size the brass for that rifle and problem is gone. Simpler that sending it back to Ruger and them sending it back saying it's within tolerances. My gunsmith confirmed it was a borderline situation so I took the easy way out.
Paul B.

 

[30-338]

Didn't want to throw the other 35 whelen thread off track since that thread is full of good looking rifles with excellent groups and deserves to go on as is.

But a Whelen question. I am pretty sure I'm gonna end up re-barreling my springfield to a whelen, but have been contemplating whether I should go AI or not?

I'm not considering the AI route to necessarily gain speed, what the whelen produces in it's original form is more than enough for me. But when I look at the cartridge dimensions and drawings it seems to me that with the 06's shallow 17 degree shoulder and the outside neck diameter of .388 in 35 whelen, it doesn't let you with much of a shoulder wall to headspace against. The AI with it's sharp 40 degree shoulder takes care of that. Am I out in left field on this and thinking about something that is a non issue?

I shot Rem classic 35 Whelen when I was having 35 WhelenAI build. I never had problems with either and gunsmith use Manson reamer(Kreiger new barrel) for the AI. If your having 35 Whelen build should ask gunsmith about reamer/headspace before you have any work started.

To be honest, accuracy is first and velocity is what it is and I have no pre est on velocity in any of my builds and that includes AI. There is 35 Brown Whelen and they shorten neck is in my future.

Well good luck

 

[truck driver]

Didn't want to throw the other 35 whelen thread off track since that thread is full of good looking rifles with excellent groups and deserves to go on as is.

But a Whelen question. I am pretty sure I'm gonna end up re-barreling my springfield to a whelen, but have been contemplating whether I should go AI or not?

I'm not considering the AI route to necessarily gain speed, what the whelen produces in it's original form is more than enough for me. But when I look at the cartridge dimensions and drawings it seems to me that with the 06's shallow 17 degree shoulder and the outside neck diameter of .388 in 35 whelen, it doesn't let you with much of a shoulder wall to headspace against. The AI with it's sharp 40 degree shoulder takes care of that. Am I out in left field on this and thinking about something that is a non issue?

I shot Rem classic 35 Whelen when I was having 35 WhelenAI build. I never had problems with either and gunsmith use Manson reamer(Kreiger new barrel) for the AI. If your having 35 Whelen build should ask gunsmith about reamer/headspace before you have any work started.

To be honest, accuracy is first and velocity is what it is and I have no pre est on velocity in any of my builds and that includes AI. There is 35 Brown Whelen and they shorten neck is in my future.

Well good luck

The Brown Whelen is tempting.

 

[30-338]

Didn't want to throw the other 35 whelen thread off track since that thread is full of good looking rifles with excellent groups and deserves to go on as is.

But a Whelen question. I am pretty sure I'm gonna end up re-barreling my springfield to a whelen, but have been contemplating whether I should go AI or not?

I'm not considering the AI route to necessarily gain speed, what the whelen produces in it's original form is more than enough for me. But when I look at the cartridge dimensions and drawings it seems to me that with the 06's shallow 17 degree shoulder and the outside neck diameter of .388 in 35 whelen, it doesn't let you with much of a shoulder wall to headspace against. The AI with it's sharp 40 degree shoulder takes care of that. Am I out in left field on this and thinking about something that is a non issue?

I shot Rem classic 35 Whelen when I was having 35 WhelenAI build. I never had problems with either and gunsmith use Manson reamer(Kreiger new barrel) for the AI. If your having 35 Whelen build should ask gunsmith about reamer/headspace before you have any work started.

To be honest, accuracy is first and velocity is what it is and I have no pre est on velocity in any of my builds and that includes AI. There is 35 Brown Whelen and they shorten neck is in my future.

Well good luck

The Brown Whelen is tempting.

Didn't want to throw the other 35 whelen thread off track since that thread is full of good looking rifles with excellent groups and deserves to go on as is.

But a Whelen question. I am pretty sure I'm gonna end up re-barreling my springfield to a whelen, but have been contemplating whether I should go AI or not?

I'm not considering the AI route to necessarily gain speed, what the whelen produces in it's original form is more than enough for me. But when I look at the cartridge dimensions and drawings it seems to me that with the 06's shallow 17 degree shoulder and the outside neck diameter of .388 in 35 whelen, it doesn't let you with much of a shoulder wall to headspace against. The AI with it's sharp 40 degree shoulder takes care of that. Am I out in left field on this and thinking about something that is a non issue?

I shot Rem classic 35 Whelen when I was having 35 WhelenAI build. I never had problems with either and gunsmith use Manson reamer(Kreiger new barrel) for the AI. If your having 35 Whelen build should ask gunsmith about reamer/headspace before you have any work started.

To be honest, accuracy is first and velocity is what it is and I have no pre est on velocity in any of my builds and that includes AI. There is 35 Brown Whelen and they shorten neck is in my future.

Well good luck

The Brown Whelen is tempting.

Just boys and their toys!

 

[SJB358]

I’ve got two 35 Whelens have had 0 problems with either. One being a 7600 and the other being a 700 CDL. IF I thought there was a headspace problem I’d merely neck up to 9.3 and back down to fit the chamber snug but as it sits, with factory RP brass I’ve never had a problem.

Feeding is SLICK in both rifles as well and todays powders are so danged good it’s hard improve a ton. I say go either way you want but a plain ol Whelen is a beast!

 

[ShadeTree]

Scotty, I have a 22-250 with a headspace issue, near as I can tell about .010 on factory cartridges, and that's what I do for that gun, neck it up to .243 then partially size the neck back down to .224 for a tight fit until I get them formed on the first firing. After that I just set my die to bump the shoulder around .002-.003, and no problem from there on out.

What I was wondering about is the whelen case shoulder with its gentle slope and short shoulder wall, being able to hold its setting on firing even with proper headspace. But sounds like I'm wondering about something that is a none issue.

 

[SJB358]

It’s a non issue ST.