35 Whelen vs. 35 Whelen AI vs. 338-06

[PJGunner]

"I know the 35 Whelen can be safely loaded up to 62k psi, and have amazing velocities with 200 gr to 225 gr bullets, but the bread and butter weight is the 250gr bullets."

I'm not sure I completely agree with that. I've been running the 225 gr. TSX bullet in my Whelen at just a hair over 2710 FPS at the muzzle and I say without hesitation, when it hit an elk, the elk dies. That is with proper bullet placement of course. Personally, while the .35 Whelen made its reputation with 250 and 275 gr. bullets, the many better bullets available today make other choices reasonable. They say that with all copper bullets like theTSX dropping back to the next lighter weight bullet is a sound idea. With my current load using the TSX bullet, I would take on anything in North and South America and never look back I wouldn't be afraid to take African with the exception of elephant, Rhino, Hippo and Cape Buffalo mainly because it would be against the law. Lion might be a maybe but as I''ll never make it to Africa the point is moot. Also I would not hesitate to use a 225 gr. Partition or AccuBond in the Whelen. The only advantage to running a 250 gr. bullet at 2700 FPS is you extend the range of the rifle a bit. I've dropped elk as far out as 350 yards and for me, that's more than far enough.
Paul B.

 

[rjm158]

Hawk, in tbe FWIW department, about 10 years ago or so I birthday gifted myself a Remington 700 Classic 35 Whelen that the previous owner had put in a Bell & Carlson stock. It was topped with an older Burris 3-9x scope.

I experimented with different loads in the 200-225 gr area since I was gonna be hunting only deer and nothing larger with them and settled on 58 gr of RL-15 and the 225 AB. Great accuracy and terminal performance. I never chronoed them so I have no clue as to velocity.

My oldest stepson asked to borrow it and I agreed, telling him it was zeroed at 200 and in the conversation we discussed what the trajectory might be further out. Making a long story short, the next day he killed a button buck at a lasered 447 yds. DRT, broke a bunch of ribs and jellified internal organs. Large blood spray behind it too.Three days later I used the rifle to kill two coyotes (89 & 55 yds) and a nice 10 point buck (190 yds). All one shot kills and the buck walked about 10-15 ft before falling over.

My stepson has become a Whelen zealot and has talked me out of my Remington 7600 to go along with the Savage Whelen I had assembled for him.

Even without using a max load the Whelen is decisive and the lighter bullets work well also. My particular rifle really likes the 225s but I've not tried 250s although I have several boxes I bought from SPS several years ago.

Ron

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[HAWKEYESATX]

"I know the 35 Whelen can be safely loaded up to 62k psi, and have amazing velocities with 200 gr to 225 gr bullets, but the bread and butter weight is the 250gr bullets."

I'm not sure I completely agree with that. I've been running the 225 gr. TSX bullet in my Whelen at just a hair over 2710 FPS at the muzzle and I say without hesitation, when it hit an elk, the elk dies. That is with proper bullet placement of course. Personally, while the .35 Whelen made its reputation with 250 and 275 gr. bullets, the many better bullets available today make other choices reasonable. They say that with all copper bullets like theTSX dropping back to the next lighter weight bullet is a sound idea. With my current load using the TSX bullet, I would take on anything in North and South America and never look back I wouldn't be afraid to take African with the exception of elephant, Rhino, Hippo and Cape Buffalo mainly because it would be against the law. Lion might be a maybe but as I''ll never make it to Africa the point is moot. Also I would not hesitate to use a 225 gr. Partition or AccuBond in the Whelen. The only advantage to running a 250 gr. bullet at 2700 FPS is you extend the range of the rifle a bit. I've dropped elk as far out as 350 yards and for me, that's more than far enough.
Paul B.

Hey Paul!

I haven’t forgotten about the lighter weight bullets.
I believe you about elk hunting and using the 225gr.
To me, all of the bullet weights are viable options, then when I find the right bullet combo, I’m going to be hunting everything from coyote to moose with mine!
I can’t wait to see the bang - flops it makes animals do.


Hawk


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[HAWKEYESATX]

Hawk, in tbe FWIW department, about 10 years ago or so I birthday gifted myself a Remington 700 Classic 35 Whelen that the previous owner had put in a Bell & Carlson stock. It was topped with an older Burris 3-9x scope.

I experimented with different loads in the 200-225 gr area since I was gonna be hunting only deer and nothing larger with them and settled on 58 gr of RL-15 and the 225 AB. Great accuracy and terminal performance. I never chronoed them so I have no clue as to velocity.

My oldest stepson asked to borrow it and I agreed, telling him it was zeroed at 200 and in the conversation we discussed what the trajectory might be further out. Making a long story short, the next day he killed a button buck at a lasered 447 yds. DRT, broke a bunch of ribs and jellified internal organs. Large blood spray behind it too.Three days later I used the rifle to kill two coyotes (89 & 55 yds) and a nice 10 point buck (190 yds). All one shot kills and the buck walked about 10-15 ft before falling over.

My stepson has become a Whelen zealot and has talked me out of my Remington 7600 to go along with the Savage Whelen I had assembled for him.

Even without using a max load the Whelen is decisive and the lighter bullets work well also. My particular rifle really likes the 225s but I've not tried 250s although I have several boxes I bought from SPS several years ago.

Ron

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Hey Ron!

That’s a great account of your Whelen’s!
I didn’t quite know that it could be as flat shooting as you mentioned. But I’m quite pleased that if I need to take a shot at a deer at 400 - 450 yds, it’s up to the task, as long as I do my part, and put the bullet in heart/lung area.
I’m not sure if this analogy goes along with rifle bullets as well, but I read somewhere that the caliber .358 is 78% of .452 cal.
They said that the reason why 9mm and .38 cal pistol rounds work so well was because of that equation. There was just something sorta magical about the pistol caliber, and that they hit above there weight class!
I’m thinking that has something to do with the 35 Whelen mystique, along with it generating more hydrostatic shock than smaller calibers, not to mention the greater frontal area displaces more tissue than normal calibers.
True that the bullets don’t have a lot of sectional density, but who needs that when .358 cal rifles just plain work! No muss, no fuss!
I also understand that when one tries a Whelen, no one goes back,!and for a lot of good reasons, as you mentioned!


Hawk

 

[rjm158]

Hawk, I wasn't meaning to say it shot so flat, he was holding high to account for the trajectory. My main point was that even at extended range the bullet carried a substantial amount of energy to do what it did.

When I told him how it was zeroed, I guesstimated it would require holding about a foot above a deer' sback at 400. Bear in mind when I told him that I had no idea he would actually TRY it, we were just talking.

Ron

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[JD338]

Good story Ron. Reminds me of when brinky72 was waiting on his build, he came over to shoot my 35 Whelen. We checked the 100 yard zero and I told him to hold on the top of the 250 yard gong. He took a few shots, hitting the gong every time. Every one hit with authority too.
I thought I was helping brinky72 but all I did was create another Whelen monster.
You are going to dig the 35 Whelen.

JD338

 

[HAWKEYESATX]

Hawk, I wasn't meaning to say it shot so flat, he was holding high to account for the trajectory. My main point was that even at extended range the bullet carried a substantial amount of energy to do what it did.

When I told him how it was zeroed, I guesstimated it would require holding about a foot above a deer' sback at 400. Bear in mind when I told him that I had no idea he would actually TRY it, we were just talking.

Ron

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Hey Ron!

No, I got what you were saying.
I don’t have any doubts that it’s quite an arched trajectory.


Hawk

 

[HAWKEYESATX]

Good story Ron. Reminds me of when brinky72 was waiting on his build, he came over to shoot my 35 Whelen. We checked the 100 yard zero and I told him to hold on the top of the 250 yard gong. He took a few shots, hitting the gong every time. Every one hit with authority too.
I thought I was helping brinky72 but all I did was create another Whelen monster.
You are going to dig the 35 Whelen.

JD338

Muahahahahahaha!

Er….um, sorry!

I can see how that can be made possible.


Hawk

 

[SJB358]

I’ve had a few 35 Whelens through the years. I passed my 700 CDL to Dan and he traded me his Ruger M77. A 22” barrel on a Whelen is hardly any disadvantage at all. Right now I am planning to use the 200 TTSX a bit over 2900 in the Ruger and I’ll continue to stick with 225 Sierras at 2675 in my M7600 Whelen.

It just isn’t a picky cartridge at all. It’s taken a couple elk for me with excellent results as well as well as a bunch of deer.

I have an old 7600 270 that might become a 338-06 before the fall, just cause. I’ve used the 338 Win a good bit as well. My thoughts on the Ackley or standard are your barrel and chamber are going to make more difference than the bit of capacity the Ackley gives. The 338 Win is always going to win at Distance just cause BC wins out but for 400 and under I’d never worry a bit myself.

But a 35 Whelen is typical a bit more compact and holds an extra round or two in the magazine so there is that. A good rifleman will make any of them work real well and the difference between any of them won’t be the cartridges fault at normal hunting ranges.

 

[Blkram]

When comparing performance of my 338-06 to other's 338-06 AI's I have found that I am getting the same velocities out of my rifle with 210-215 gr bullets as they are.
And I used QuickLoad data from DrMike to determine my load was safe for pressures (62.0gr of H-414 over WLR primers in Wby brass for the 215 gr SGK resulting in chronied 2751 fps out of the 22" barrel, giving 1/2" groups at 100 yards). As a comparison, Wby's factory ammo w/ 210 gr Nosler Partition gave chronied 2750 fps and also produced 1/2" groups at 100 yards.
A mild load of 50.0 gr of IMR4320 with the 200 gr Nosler BT tried, produced 2590 fps and groups just a hair over 3/4" at 100 yards.
My Bevan King barrel may be faster than others, but it definitely performs well!
I do not see any benefit in Improving the cartridge...at least in my rifle.

 

[ShadeTree]

Hawke, what made you change your mind on the Remington 78 you were going to turn into a Whelen?

 

[HAWKEYESATX]

Hawke, what made you change your mind on the Remington 78 you were going to turn into a Whelen?

The straight stock is what made me change my mind. It had the same drop and thin dimensions that my Ruger M77 300 Win Mag had.
Now I definitely have my project rifle to turn into 35 Whelen!
A Savage 111 in .270 Win, but I’m going to buy the Shaw barrel kit from Midway USA, and switch the barrel out.

Hawk


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[wvbuckbuster]

Hawk I helped a friend convert his Savage 270 Win into a 6BR . A wrench, go, no-go gauges and your set to convert. Easy with a Savage. Might want to invest in a good recoil pad if your using that stock, lol. Let us know how your project turns out. Dan.

 

[HAWKEYESATX]

Hawk I helped a friend convert his Savage 270 Win into a 6BR . A wrench, go, no-go gauges and your set to convert. Easy with a Savage. Might want to invest in a good recoil pad if your using that stock, lol. Let us know how your project turns out. Dan.

Hey! That’s great!
That kit from Midway USA has all of the equipment you mentioned above.
All I need now is an action vice, and I’m set to switch the barrel.
How long does it take to switch the barrels out?

Hawk


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[SJB358]

I’ve helped a couple buddies do Remingtons with barrel nuts and I’d say it took 20 to 30 minutes yakking the whole time.

 

[HAWKEYESATX]

I’ve helped a couple buddies do Remingtons with barrel nuts and I’d say it took 20 to 30 minutes yakking the whole time.

Yeah, we do tend to talk more than work on things like that when we get a bunch of buddies around. LOL
Still, not a long time to do that.
Thank you for letting me know.


Hawk


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[Ridgerunner665]

I was reading thru this thread and remembered an article I read a while back...35 HCR magnum...basically a 338 Win Mag necked up to 35 caliber.

I liked it's numbers...250 grain bullet at 2,850 or so if I remember right, and less recoil than a 375 H&H.

I expect that would scratch a 35 caliber itch quite well... can be loaded with 338 Win brass.

A 358 Norma Mag ballistic twin, with easier to find, and likely less expensive brass.

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[SJB358]

I was going to say, it’s gotta be a twin to the 358 Norma. I think it’s less than a tenth of a difference at the shoulder. Pretty neat idea though. The 358/300 Win was another that I think would be easy. The Newton isn’t hard either but I hate trimming so much neck off after resizing 375 Ruger brass.

All of them make some incredible power though.

I still have a couple barrels waiting for another big 35 when I get the itch.

 

[wvbuckbuster]

I’ve helped a couple buddies do Remingtons with barrel nuts and I’d say it took 20 to 30 minutes yakking the whole time.

Yeah, we do tend to talk more than work on things like that when we get a bunch of buddies around. LOL
Still, not a long time to do that.
Thank you for letting me know.


Hawk


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What Scotty said is true of the Savage as well. Your coffee won't get cold before your finished, lol. Dan.

 

[HAWKEYESATX]

I’ve helped a couple buddies do Remingtons with barrel nuts and I’d say it took 20 to 30 minutes yakking the whole time.

Yeah, we do tend to talk more than work on things like that when we get a bunch of buddies around. LOL
Still, not a long time to do that.
Thank you for letting me know.


Hawk


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What Scotty said is true of the Savage as well. Your coffee won't get cold before your finished, lol. Dan.

That’s a definite plus in my book Dan!
You and Scotty know your stuff, no doubt!


Hawk


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