358WIN & 200gr - Just Wasn't Meant to Be

[CatskillCrawler]

I've just shot the last of 100 rds of Rem CL-PSP and 100 rds of Hdy Interlock Spire Pt in 200gr yesterday out of my BLR in 358Win. I have used IMR-4064, IMR-3031, Varget and H-4895. I shot 25 rds with each bullet with all 4 of these powders working up to listed max. My best loads were with IMR-3031 but the velocity was slower than my better loads with the 225gr SGKs. Not that I need much velocity or the heavier weight but I feel that the 225gr or 250gr bullets are where I want to be with this cartridge. I'm not the best trigger puller but I have numerous sub-MOA groups with other rifles. I have a VX-III 2.5-8x36 atop this rifle.

The heavy trigger is a definite limiting factor but it isn't the heaviest I've used with good results. My last string with the Varget was rushed due to ensuing darkness and lack of confidence/disappointment. I usually shoot 3 shots and then switch to other rifles/pistol for at least 10 mins. I just blew thru the last 7 rounds of the highest charge weights here.

I have no pics of the Hornady Interlocks but they were all as good as the worst groups here. Those targets helped start the woodstove at the range last February.

 

[SJB358]

CC, I was in about the same boat as you with the 200's in my BLR. Once I moved up to the 225's and W748, things started to come together a little better for me. The 225gr Sierra's and PT's shoot about the same for me with 748. Like you, I didn't really wanna shoot 200's in the rifle. I do have a decent load with IMR4198 and 200gr HDY's, but really, I have the 225gr PT's and Sierra's shooting well, so I am calling it a day. Until I can dress up the trigger some, 1-1.25" is about as good as I can hold with the rifle. Scotty

 

[DrMike]

I had quite a bit of success with my BLr. Among the loads that worked well were Hornady 200 grain FTX and IMR 3031, Barnes 200 grain TSX and IMR 3031, Alliant 10X, H335 or W748. I also had very good success with Barnes 225 grain TSX and either Accurate 2015 or W748. The Sierra 225 grain SBT and either Accurate 2015 or BL-C(2) were also excellent loads.

 

[CatskillCrawler]

I have 25rds Hdy 200gr FTX's loaded over some W748 with another 75rds in a bulk pack. Unless they show me something extraordinary, I'll probably just gift or trade them to a 35Rem owner.

My next range trip will also feature 225 SGKs over W-748 and a tune-up of the IMR-3031 load I'm happy with to date with the SGKs.

The triggers in my Rems and Win bolts are all very good and it takes a lot of focus to switch between light/crisp and heavy on this BLR.

All wasn't lost yesterday, I shot the 257Bob with some Win 117gr PPs and it shows potential. I'll try my reloads next session. Four 3-shot groups averaged 1.8" and they were all triangles. Not great but if I can get this down to 1-1.25" I'll be happy.

My friend's M-700 LSS Mtn was giving him fits last year. I cleaned all the copper out of it and re-mounted his scope. I shot 13 rds thru it very deliberately. One to get it on paper and four 3-shot groups. All sub 1.5", with a best @.8", using Fed 130gr Pwr-Shok and Fusion 130gr. This rifle will not shoot well with a hot barrel which is understandable. He was ready to sell it but after this session I think he'll be satisfied.

 

[SJB358]

3031 and 748 should be winners. I would like to hear about the FTX's in the 358. Some folks have a bunch of good luck with them, but I really think the 358 shines bright with the 225's around 2400. At least for my hunting purposes.

Sounds like your Bob is doing pretty well. If it is consistent, that is the best signs of a god rifle that can be tweaked with some decent loads. Hoping to see some more groups out of it. Should be a great shooter with some of your loads.

Glass you have the Mtn rifle shooting well. It really takes alot of patience with the barrel heaters like that. My 264 gives me fits too, but slowing down really assists a bunch in that area. Sounds like he has some good loads to hunt with this year. Scotty

 

[CatskillCrawler]

Just finished up another range session today with the BLR. I worked with W748, a new powder for me, and expanded my results with IMR-3031.

Today was Breezy, 10-20 kts steady, but the range is somewhat protected from the tall hill backstop due west.

It looks like I'm going to go into this season without much improvement, accuracy wise, over last year. I have stepped up the velocity but groups are still in the 1.25 -1.5" range for my best loads. It will work but I'd like to think I can wring out something better.

Here's the W-748 loads with 225gr SGKs. I had primer cratering with all of these loads. Have never had this with other loads, even the Double Tap offerings which are hot. I noticed no difference in extraction effort. I don't think I will go hotter with this powder/bullet.

Here's is last years IMR-3031 work.

I increased the charge weight this year but kept OAL the same. I'm satisfied with the velocity. I'll see if changing the seating depth will help things out this winter. I'll re-do the 44.5gr and shoot 5 shots with it for verification and hopefully move on to getting the 257Roberts straight.

 

[SJB358]

Man, I was hoping W748 would work out better for you CC, although your 52.0gr charge looks pretty good. I get slight flattening with them as well, but your groups look just about like mine. I would call that a good load. Mine tightened up quite alot as I increased the charge as well. Seems like the more it compressed, the more consistent it looked. You do have some good loads with 3031 though.. Scotty

 

[CatskillCrawler]

I basically got no increase in velocity from 51.0 to 52.0gr and the primer cratering did increase. I'm kinda confused to be honest because my primers didn't flatten yet they did crater. If I didn't have the IMR-3031 doing OK I'd try these again. I'm not the best at the bench and this trigger does make it a bit challenging.

I think I'll give it another go with 225gr NP and the 250 gr Grand Slams this winter. I still haven't tried the TAC yet. Always something to look forward to. I also have the FTX bullets all loaded up with W748. Was just able to fire the lowest charge weight with those before some knucklehead two bays down from me decided to discharge his new Muzzie into a shooting bench during an "all clear". Things got a bit confrontational.

Gonna concentrate on the Bob now. My scope started moving on me today and it ruined those plans when I didn't have the right size allen wrench to re-mount it. Did get excellent speed with the 100gr NPs but my groups were horrendous. Of course it took me 15 shots before I realized my scope was moving. :x

 

[bullet]

Not bad for a BLR. Those are hunting groups. Bedding seems to be and issue a long with the trigger, but being a two piece stock, you are limited on what you can do. When you dial into the equation, a two piece stock, a heavy trigger, and then add the shooter as well as the OAL (give it a good jump), I would be satisfied with the 748 loads. It is hard to tell what combination of things are causing your groups to be as they are.

 

[taylorce1]

I've been doing a lot of research on the .358 Win lately as I'm having a time trying to get my Savage 99 to group. From what I've found I4320 is a great powder to use in the .358 as well as Ramshot powders. Here is some data I've been able to scrounge up.

Taylorce1,

Those charges listed were the max listed from Ramshot. I ran them on Quickload as well at they come in right at around the published SAMMI Press max of 58000...

It was nice that they both shot well in my rifle.

Be careful with H335...I got a little zealous with a couple of my loads and got very sticky lever action...pressure signs.
Here is the e-mail I received from Ramshot:

Mike,

TAC® will work however being slightly too slow burning it will require more compression (which is not bad)

X-terminator will be slightly more efficient albeit also compressed.

We suggest the following.



Caliber: .358 Winchester.

Barrel length: 24”

Powder: Ramshot – X-Terminator. (1st Choice)

Bullet weight: 225 grains.

Start load: 41.0grains (2000 – 2100 Ft/p/sec)

Maximum load: 44.5 grains (2400 – 2500 Ft/p/sec). Full case/Compressed.

Bullet weight: 250 grains.

Start load: 37.0grains (1900 – 2000 Ft/p/sec)

Maximum load: 42.0grains (2250 – 2350 Ft/p/sec). Full case/Compressed.



Powder: Ramshot – TAC.

Bullet weight: 225 grains.

Start load: 41.0grains (2000 – 2100 Ft/p/sec)

Maximum load: 46.0grains (2300 – 2400 Ft/p/sec). Full case/Compressed.

Bullet weight: 250 grains.

Start load: 39.0grains (1850 – 1950 Ft/p/sec)

Maximum load: 44.0grains (2200 – 2300 Ft/p/sec). Full case/Compressed.

NOTES:

It’ important to note that SAFETY is our prime concern therefore we strongly recommend.

1. TO ALWAYS BEGIN LOADING AT THE RECOMMENDED MINIMUM “START” LOAD and develop loads in 2% increments towards the MAXIMUM load.

2. If at all possible, measure the velocity and correlate with our data.

And

Chad,

We suggest the following.

Caliber: .358 Winchester.

Barrel length: 24”



Powder: Ramshot – TAC®.

Bullet weight: 200 grains.

Start load: 43.0grains (2300 – 2350 Fps)

Maximum load: 48.0grains (2450 – 2550 Fps) LD ca 108%.

Bullet weight: 225 grains.

Start load: 41.4 grains (2000 – 2100 Fps)

Maximum load: 46.0grains (2300 – 2400 Fps) LD ca 106%.

NOTES:

It’ important to note that SAFETY is our prime concern therefore we strongly recommend.

1. ALWAYS BEGIN LOADING AT THE RECOMMENDED MINIMUM “START” LOAD and develop loads in 2% increments towards the MAXIMUM load.

2. If possible, measure the velocity and correlate with our data.

 

[CatskillCrawler]

Bullet - Thanks. I agree that they're suitable hunting groups. Especially for the ranges I will encounter here but I'd like to get more consistency. I know I can tighten things up some with a lighter trigger but also feel that I'm part of the issue too. I feel like I have to crawl up over this rifle on the bench. It shoulders like a dream from field positions though.

These are the 11th and 12th loads I've worked up for this rifle and I usually have something better than this by now. With the 225gr bullets, I think any velocity above 2400fps is perfect for this cartridge. I have that now so hopefully some OAL adjustments will help.

Taylor1 - I have a lb of TAC in my powder cache. Not gonna start now as I still have other projects in work. Thanks for load data though. They look promising.