45-70 and 350gr Hot Cor?

[wisconsinteacher]

I just got some 350 Hot Cors and want to try them with IMR 3031 in my Henry. Looking at the Hodgeden Site they say 56.5gr is min/2022fps and 60.0c is max/2135fps, so I loaded 5 up at 57.0gr and now I'm questioning if they are safe?? With 57.0gr, there was some compression of the powder and I'm guessing the recoil on these loads will be heavy. I have done some digging online and found guys are loading the 350gr Hornady at 51.7gr-1700fps and say that the recoil is enough for them.

Again, I'm confused on to what are the minimum charges a person can use with IMR 3031 and the 350gr Hot Cor and still have a round that is safe and will work on deer? Can a person drop back 5gr and still be safe and shoot the Hot Cor at 1700fps?

Hopefully that is not to confusing and thanks for the help.

 

[FOTIS]

You should be fine. If you're still nervous load a couple at 56.5 and if no pressure proceed.

 

[JD338]

Where did you get the load data from?
Did it specifically say it was for a Marlin?
There are typically three levels of load data...
1 Trapdoor
2 Marlin 1895
3 Ruger No 1

Confirm which level you are using.
2000-2100 fps with a 350 gr bullet is getting up there in speed, pressure and recoil.

JD338

 

[Guy Miner]

It's published data by Hodgdon:

I've used the 56.5 grain charge with Hornady's 350 gr RNSP bullet. It's stout but can be controlled from the 22" Marlin.

I haven't used the 350 gr Speer Hot Core bullet. It was originally intended as a light bullet alternative for the 458 Win Mag and has a reputation as a rather strong bullet. I think Scotty has loaded it. Believe that the crimp groove/cannelure is in the wrong spot for the 45-70 Marlin lever action, but people are using the Lee Factory Crimp die to make it work when loaded to proper 45-70 length.

The 350 Hornady, either the flat nose or the round nose, work great through the Marlin and have the cannelure in the correct position for the lever actions.

Regards, Guy

 

[michsteve]

Seems hot for a lever gun here is and old booklet I had with recipes.

1st pic is trapdoor
2nd pic is the booklet
3rd pick is Ruger 1.
There was no recipe for lever action and a 350 grain bullet but you should be able to load at lower powder level 45/70 has a pretty wide range from soft to shoulder busting Ruger loads.

This booklet is older maybe 3031 has changed over last ten years.

 

[preacher]

I shot the 350 Round Nose in my old Marlin. 53gr IMR 3031 350RN has been a solid deer/elk/bear load for many years. +1 on the Factory Crimp Die, I wouldn't be w/o one, but especially for a levergun.

 

[RL338]

This is the data you’re must be looking at. They are showing a 24” barrel allowing those higher velocity. I do know the last IMR3031 I bought does run slow compare to book data and QL.

 

[Joec7651]

I load it 2 grains under the Hodgdon max with H4198 in my 22” barreled 1895 because it’s got a thicker jacket than the Hornady bullet.Thats max for my rifle and my shoulder. I load it to 2.590” because at 2.610” it doesn’t cycle in my rifle. You have to use the Lee FCD with this bullet. You can’t roll crimp it. It penetrates Into tomorrow and knocks the crap out of you when you fire. Terrible to shoot from a bench but I’ve never noticed the recoil when firing at an animal. I haven’t chrono’d it. Not sure why, I’ve loaded it for quite a few years now. 3031 may be easier on the shoulder.

Edit: Hodgdons load data is much hotter than everyone else’s data from what I’ve seen. Not saying it’s unsafe, just harder on the shoulder.

 

[TexasLife]

It's published data by Hodgdon:
View attachment 22408


Regards, Guy

Description as 45-70 government is misleading as it could be trapdoor or 1895? Does Hodgdon list #1 as is and trapdoor as it and government as 1895? With (and in other published data (Hornady and Barnes) they state safe levels @42k in modern 1895's. I haven't looked at my Speer #14 yet. 28K I believe is max on trapdoors.

 

[TexasLife]

BTW, has anyone used any 350a-frames in their marlin 1895's? I have some yet to load.

 

[Guy Miner]

Description as 45-70 government is misleading as it could be trapdoor or 1895? Does Hodgdon list #1 as is and trapdoor as it and government as 1895? With (and in other published data (Hornady and Barnes) they state safe levels @42k in modern 1895's. I haven't looked at my Speer #14 yet. 28K I believe is max on trapdoors.

Perhaps you didn't read "lever actions" ?
It's not misleading at all.

That is safe in lever actions. I've shot it in three different Marlin lever action 1895's and a Henry lever action as well. Rifles are fine, as am I.

Guy

 

[Guy Miner]

BTW, has anyone used any 350a-frames in their marlin 1895's? I have some yet to load.

I have shot 350 gr Swift A-Frames from a lever action Marlin! They did very well.

All the way back in 2011:

.45/70 350 gr Hornady & Swift A-Frame

Both were sent into the jugs at 20 yards. Swift is on the left, Hornady FNSP is on the right. Swift A-Frame: 2046 fps, 7th jug, 345 grains, .71" expanded diameter Hornady FNSP: 2086 fps, 6th jug, 296 grains, .846" expanded diameter The Swift is a very expensive bonded-core bullet and...

forum.nosler.com

And there's at least one more report by another forum member on those fine bullets. They're pretty doggone impressive!

Regards, Guy

 

[TexasLife]

I have shot 350 gr Swift A-Frames from a lever action Marlin! They did very well.

All the way back in 2011:

.45/70 350 gr Hornady & Swift A-Frame

Both were sent into the jugs at 20 yards. Swift is on the left, Hornady FNSP is on the right. Swift A-Frame: 2046 fps, 7th jug, 345 grains, .71" expanded diameter Hornady FNSP: 2086 fps, 6th jug, 296 grains, .846" expanded diameter The Swift is a very expensive bonded-core bullet and...

forum.nosler.com

And there's at least one more report by another forum member on those fine bullets. They're pretty doggone impressive!

Regards, Guy

That's some weight retention for sure! Look out prairie dogs here I come! What powder and charge did you use?

 

[wisconsinteacher]

Thanks for all the info. I do have the Lee Factory Crimp die and use it for the 45-70. I loaded up a new batch last night and dropped down to 53gr of IMR 3031. From what I have read, it should be around 1700-1800fps. I know the bullet is strong. I think it will be like a lead cast bullet and will put a hole in and out of deer and bears.

 

[Guy Miner]

That's some weight retention for sure! Look out prairie dogs here I come! What powder and charge did you use?

I worked up to 50 grains of H4198. That was from a 22" Marlin 1895. It's stout, but below max for the 350 gr Hornady. I suspect that the pure copper jacket on the Swift bullet is "stickier" and didn't want to go above higher with the powder charge because of that.

That was back in 2011... I've umm, "matured" since then. LOL! These days I'm mostly using IMR 3031 for my powerful 45-70 loads. I'm probably about 100 fps lower than the loads I posted back then.

Regards, Guy

 

[michsteve]

I worked up to 50 grains of H4198. That was from a 22" Marlin 1895. It's stout, but below max for the 350 gr Hornady. I suspect that the pure copper jacket on the Swift bullet is "stickier" and didn't want to go above higher with the powder charge because of that.

That was back in 2011... I've umm, "matured" since then. LOL! These days I'm mostly using IMR 3031 for my powerful 45-70 loads. I'm probably about 100 fps lower than the loads I posted back then.

Regards, Guy

My Ruger 1 is fun to shoot with the max loads. That was with the Nosler ballistic silver tips soon I'll have to shoot my test Hornady 350 grain rounds, that should increase recoil a little.

 

[TexasLife]

I worked up to 50 grains of H4198. That was from a 22" Marlin 1895. It's stout, but below max for the 350 gr Hornady. I suspect that the pure copper jacket on the Swift bullet is "stickier" and didn't want to go above higher with the powder charge because of that.

That was back in 2011... I've umm, "matured" since then. LOL! These days I'm mostly using IMR 3031 for my powerful 45-70 loads. I'm probably about 100 fps lower than the loads I posted back then.

Regards, Guy

That's 1 powder I haven't been able to find and the imr version is quite a bit slower. I only have 2 45-70's (sbl & cb) for now and wouldn't mind getting the r95. My plan is to use the heavy for what I have (300-350 range) in the cb and 250 mono's in the sbl.

 

[Guy Miner]

Ya, a bunch of components are difficult to get anymore. Here's a screenshot of Hodgdon's data for it, if you find some. I think I'm out of H 4198 too.



Note that Hodgdon lists loads for the Marlin 1895 that are a fair bit higher pressure than many other sources. They have worked fine for me and my Marlins, but ya, they're stout.

Regards, Guy

 

[Guy Miner]

I think that I still have those expanded bullets, the Swift and the Hornady stashed here in a drawer under my loading bench, all these years later. I'll see about finding them and photographing them again so I don't have to rely on those old photobucket images.

Guy

 

[Joec7651]

I’ve held onto both 4198’s like they are gold, for the price they’ll be when they hit the market again it may as well be gold dust. Lol.
I’ve got 5 lbs of LT-32 I’m hoping will be similar. Haven’t tried any in my 45-70 yet. It’s a fine extruded powder between IMR4198 and RL7. Hopefully I’ll be able to try it soon.