6.5X57

[truck driver]

Been doing a little surfing and found that this round was designed in or around 1885.
Anyone know anything about it besides being a 7X57 necked down to 6.5mm ?

 

[Palouser]

Maybe. I don't know a whole lot about it but thought the 7x57 was the first smokeless cartridge in 1892. I just assumed it came after that but maybe not. It's on my bucket list of calibers to acquire before I die along with: 6mm Remington Improved, and a 22 Varminter.

 

[Palouser]

Just read the Hornady reloading handbook which said this originated around 1895, which makes sense as it is a couple years after the 7x57 was introduced.

 

[Oldtrader3]

All of the Armies of the Austrian-Hungary Empire were using 6.5 cartridges based on the Count Mannlicher split actions. I believe that is why Mauser went with the 6.5x57 to include Mauser's double ring action as a substitute for the open top Mannlicher action which is more complicated and trickier to manufacture? Not sure on this though?

 

[truck driver]

Anyone shoot this round or is it truly obsolete? More power than a 260 and a creedmore but less than a 6.5-06?

 

[Palouser]

I think it would be awesome as are all the 7x57 variants: 6mm Remington, 257 Bob, 6.5x57 and 7x57. I like the idea of improving them all. Building my first custom rifle now in a 7x57AI. At some point I would love to own them all. You would have to make your own brass as I don't think Lapua or Norma makes brass for this cartridge...but maybe they do.

A very similar cartridge which you could find components everywhere is the 6.5x55, just slightly less case capacity but far more than 260, way less that 6.5-06. I am right there with you on this one, one that I think about a lot as ideal size, power and velocity for me.

 

[Rigbymauser]

I have had a few guns in that caliber and I ended selling the guns again. Not because of the caliber but because of the guns. It´s a nice classic german caliber and many fine guns can be found next to nothing overhere in 6,5x57 because modern ammunition does not comply with the huntinglaws in most European countries. It lacks powder and a heavier bullet in he factorymade ammo. The reloader however can make the ammunition powerfull enough. There are no fleas on that caliber.

 

[SJB358]

It would be another very slick cartridge, but I don't know if it would gain too much over a plain old 6.5x55..

 

[Dwh7271]

Cartridge : 6.5 x 57 mm Mauser
Bullet : .264, 129, Nosler AccuBond LR 58943 G7
Useable Case Capaci: 54.666 grain H2O = 3.549 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.228 inch = 81.99 mm
Barrel Length : 26.0 inch = 660.4 mm
Powder : Norma MRP

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 2.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms

-20.0 90 47.45 2745 2158 39206 10369 96.3 1.467
-18.0 92 48.63 2818 2274 42334 10625 97.3 1.415
-16.0 95 49.82 2890 2393 45736 10856 98.2 1.365
-14.0 97 51.01 2963 2514 49439 11060 98.9 1.317 ! Near Maximum !
-12.0 99 52.19 3035 2638 53477 11237 99.4 1.271 ! Near Maximum !
-10.0 102 53.38 3106 2764 57883 11383 99.7 1.227 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
-08.0 104 54.57 3177 2891 62698 11498 100.0 1.185 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!/quote]


You could always do an improved version. :grin:

 

[Oldtrader3]

Nothing to sneeze at! It would slight shade the 6.5x55. No long beard on that monkey!

 

[muleman]

The 6.5x57AI was also known as the 260AAR(All Around Rifle). I would have jumped on this one for my first 6.5 build but I had a Rem 700 S/A and I think it would be much better in a 3.4" action. I'm going with a 6.5 Creedmoor instead. Brass for the 260AAR is easily made by necking up 257Roberts brass and fire forming. I think I'd opt for the +p brass.
Scott

 

[Palouser]

The 6.5x57AI was also known as the 260AAR(All Around Rifle). I would have jumped on this one for my first 6.5 build but I had a Rem 700 S/A and I think it would be much better in a 3.4" action. I'm going with a 6.5 Creedmoor instead. Brass for the 260AAR is easily made by necking up 257Roberts brass and fire forming. I think I'd opt for the +p brass.
Scott

Good info! I have always wanted one as well!

 

[Oldtrader3]

I have never owned many 6.5mm rifles, just the 6.5x55. However I really like the 57 long Mauser case for small bores. I think that a 6.5x57 would be a nice rifle for deer and even for long range shooting?

 

[350JR]

It would be another very slick cartridge, but I don't know if it would gain too much over a plain old 6.5x55..

Yep.
Compare the capacities of the two. One is a tad longer in the body than the other and the other is a bit wider. Capacity BELOW the neck is a near twin.

Put either in a modern rifle run around 60K (no bashing please. It's done all the time and by people you all know on the Swede) and your gain would be if you already have a 7x57 and want to use the same brass.

ALSO.....what brass? All is not equal, not even in the basic measurements I'm finding out. I hate saying anything because most probably already know this? LOL

Just FYI.........the RIM of CIP approved brass is NOT the same size as the rim of SAAMI "suggested" cases. 12.10mm for the 7x57 on the CIP pdf. or .476378", the Swede is 12.20mm, or .480", and the 7mm-08 (etc) stuff is 12.01mm or 0.4728".

In ACTUAL sizes? I've 7mm-08, 270 Win, 280 Win brass sitting here. All rims measure .466-.467" NOT .473". Maybe there ISN'T a downside to this.....but I know for a fact that if brass FIT the bolt face a little closer I'd like it MUCH better. Any difference in size from bolt face to rim should be in the bolt face.....not reduction in brass IMHO.

Make a difference? Probably not. Me not likey? Dang straight.


Such is also mentioned on the 7x57 in the link below (right above the photo of the loaded round that is on the left side of the page)
" Problem with CIP Spec brass not fitting Lee, RCBS or Redding shell holders. A little clean up with a die grinder solved the problem."

http://www.realguns.com/articles/512.htm

True......some are pretty close and some bolt faces will take either, but some don't too, as do most of the 7x57 shell holders fitting the CIP approved brass for such......but only seems its SOMETIMES?

I'm NO expert on the Lapua or Norma brass. I find it hard to imagine with the same governing council (or whatever the CIP is labeled) that the rims ( or anything else) would differ but I will admit they could but I am in the midst of going all the way and only using such brass.

I see VERY little reason to have SAAMI "cartridge" drawings in the specs. They don't build brass anything even close to those specs if you measure them new.

Not a regular here but for the record Ive been loading for over 45 years for around 2 dozen different rounds. Not a newbie, not an expert........just a cranky old fart that wants what he was told he was going to get.

Might be disappointed in CIP approved brass too.....time will tell but, so far, so good.
Might even be that different Lapua or Norma brass LOTS vary? Lordy I hope not.
Most of you have more info there than I but this is one thing that popped out to me in those I picked up locally and actually measured.

We load these rounds down to a nat's patoot in specs and consistency......."slop" in the brass manufacturing just is not acceptable to me. Having this kind of variation in the RIM size hitting the market in companies only using SAAMI "suggestions", one can only flinch thinking of what OTHER kinds of variations in both specs and quality we are buying, IMO.

Might be sorting Lapua brass too :lol: I hear good and bad on the PPU cases so no info there.

God Bless

 

[DrMike]

Steve,

I appreciate your contribution. You are correct about the subtle, though possible, differences in rim thickness. I have not found significant contribution to accuracy by the differences in rim thickness. However, it is impossible for me to say what increase in accuracy might be obtained if this variation were taken into account. Good post to stimulate thought.

 

[350JR]

Thanks, Mike.
To make myself clearly understood, while the rim thickness IS another "something to consider" these numbers above are concerning rim diameter and what the amount of difference I have seen.....and obviously do not like.

Accuracy, of course, is something to think about and while a bolt face and surrounding metal does not totally encase the rim, it still stands to reason to ME (I'm anal lol) that if said rim is in contact with the bolt face AT ALL or at least very, very close.....any (unwanted) expansion of such would have SOME kind of resistance.

Again, not an expert, but when I read about some "shooting their primer pocket loose"......I scratch my head just a little on the possibilities of HOW that can occur. Too much pressure yes, but still and all, the brass has to have someplace to GO to expand. To function the bolt face must be bigger in diameter but more than needed just seems.......not a good option?

In a perfect world the rim totally encased with little to no slop around it such would be all but impossible but we do not live in a perfect world nor have perfect equipment but the quest to lessen the variables is always a fun and , to me, noteworthy effort.

God Bless

 

[350JR]

Sorry, Original Poster.....I will stop now.

Off topic again
God Bless

On topic
the 6.5x55 listed case capacity is 57
The 6.5x57 is 58
and the 7x57 is 59.....

and both the 57mm ones have longer necks. A good thing or not is a personal preference. The Swede neck is longer than caliber diameter as is.

the body of the 6.5x55 is slightly larger and .008" shorter to neck bottom (according to SAAMI specs).

Capacity difference would be almost immeasurable and different lots of brass would alter such equally, if not more.

2 cents, still the 6.5x57mm would be neat and I'd use one for sure.
To build one, FOR ME, the gain is pretty iffy comparing the cost of such.

If "just cause" then all bets are off. Heck with cost. BUILD ONE.

"Ain't no wrong way" IMHO

"Wanting one" is the only REAL reason to build anything. If I or another don't agree........who cares? LOL Have fun!

 

[Rigbymauser]

When we are now talking about the sixpointfives the 6,5x68 is a speed demon. 25 years ago it was quit commen to find rifles in that caliber in gunshops and the shootingrange. Today you don´t see them anywhere now overhere. There was also a rimmed version too for falllingblock and breakactioned gun. The rimmed is more rare than a dollarbill with Elvis on.

 

[elkeater2]

For those who want their rims encased or surrounded, there's always the Encore and similar single shots
EE2

 

[DrMike]

When we are now talking about the sixpointfives the 6,5x68 is a speed demon.

And this may well be my next build. I went with an 8X68S on this present build; but it was a toss-up.